Ls1

Ok, here goes. Since my engine is in the deep water i was searching for options, when i stumbled for an LS1 from a C5 that was not badly priced. Can someone point me to a site/forum/thread that dealt with this type of swap and what's involved.

Thx

PS : besides that i know it's a pushrod V8 chevy, there's not much else I know about them.

A VERY long thread on CF in the C3 tech section many thousand posts....

too much to read, as all you really need know is that the engine bolts up to the automatics if you have the correct flex plate, or fly/stick combo...bellhousing is same...I AM TOLD.....

the engine mounts WERE high prices or make your own, there are CAD/CAM drawings online for that, it's nothing but a metal plate....

after that, the wiring is up to you, and I would think same as any other FI installation....just sequential with two ox sensors.....a dozen more wires....woopie doo....

:smash::smash::amazed:

I been doing a bit of theorizing over this swap myself....

:bump:

So the mounts are different and the engine doesn't fit in our chassis ...

If you get a complete engine incl all the accessories it's relatively simple, it's been done many times.
When I say complete I mean a take-out from a rear ended or T-boned car.... incl tranny, computer, headers, engine mounts, harniss, water pump, alt, AC....
Piecing this together might be painful and expensive, the ignition coils alone are like $500..... there's no distributor, the LSx has eight coils, so you can't just put an old style intake and a carb on there

MYBAD79 said:

If you get a complete engine incl all the accessories it's relatively simple, it's been done many times.
When I say complete I mean a take-out from a rear ended or T-boned car.... incl tranny, computer, headers, engine mounts, harniss, water pump, alt, AC....
Piecing this together might be painful and expensive, the ignition coils alone are like $500..... there's no distributor, the LSx has eight coils, so you can't just put an old style intake and a carb on there

Click to expand...

Not wanting to go to a carb anyway.

Does it only fit with the tranny of the LS1 (weren't these trannys in the rear?) or would a regular clutch housing (Muncie) just fit.

Belgian1979vette said:

MYBAD79 said:

If you get a complete engine incl all the accessories it's relatively simple, it's been done many times.
When I say complete I mean a take-out from a rear ended or T-boned car.... incl tranny, computer, headers, engine mounts, harniss, water pump, alt, AC....
Piecing this together might be painful and expensive, the ignition coils alone are like $500..... there's no distributor, the LSx has eight coils, so you can't just put an old style intake and a carb on there

Click to expand...

Not wanting to go to a carb anyway.

Does it only fit with the tranny of the LS1 (weren't these trannys in the rear?) or would a regular clutch housing (Muncie) just fit.

Click to expand...

All sorts of trannies were bolted to the rear as more typical, that rear tranny deal was only on the vettes I think, in trucks/cars the LS engines are bolted to the bellhousing like normal....and like I said the PATTERN for the bellhousing is said to be the same...so no sweat there....

OH, I have to ASSUME the crankshaft pattern is different, so doing the LS you would need a flex/clutch-fly from the LS engine but the BELLHOUSING fits....

mrvette said:

Belgian1979vette said:

MYBAD79 said:

If you get a complete engine incl all the accessories it's relatively simple, it's been done many times.
When I say complete I mean a take-out from a rear ended or T-boned car.... incl tranny, computer, headers, engine mounts, harniss, water pump, alt, AC....
Piecing this together might be painful and expensive, the ignition coils alone are like $500..... there's no distributor, the LSx has eight coils, so you can't just put an old style intake and a carb on there

Click to expand...

Not wanting to go to a carb anyway.

Does it only fit with the tranny of the LS1 (weren't these trannys in the rear?) or would a regular clutch housing (Muncie) just fit.

Click to expand...

All sorts of trannies were bolted to the rear as more typical, that rear tranny deal was only on the vettes I think, in trucks/cars the LS engines are bolted to the bellhousing like normal....and like I said the PATTERN for the bellhousing is said to be the same...so no sweat there....

OH, I have to ASSUME the crankshaft pattern is different, so doing the LS you would need a flex/clutch-fly from the LS engine but the BELLHOUSING fits....

Click to expand...

Right but that still leaves a lot of questions open, whether or not the LS clutch has the splines of the Muncie...

What is exactly different with the motormounts.

Does the engine fysically fit in between a-arms and such ?

Belgian1979vette said:

mrvette said:

Belgian1979vette said:

MYBAD79 said:

If you get a complete engine incl all the accessories it's relatively simple, it's been done many times.
When I say complete I mean a take-out from a rear ended or T-boned car.... incl tranny, computer, headers, engine mounts, harniss, water pump, alt, AC....
Piecing this together might be painful and expensive, the ignition coils alone are like $500..... there's no distributor, the LSx has eight coils, so you can't just put an old style intake and a carb on there

Click to expand...

Not wanting to go to a carb anyway.

Does it only fit with the tranny of the LS1 (weren't these trannys in the rear?) or would a regular clutch housing (Muncie) just fit.

Click to expand...

All sorts of trannies were bolted to the rear as more typical, that rear tranny deal was only on the vettes I think, in trucks/cars the LS engines are bolted to the bellhousing like normal....and like I said the PATTERN for the bellhousing is said to be the same...so no sweat there....

OH, I have to ASSUME the crankshaft pattern is different, so doing the LS you would need a flex/clutch-fly from the LS engine but the BELLHOUSING fits....

Click to expand...

Right but that still leaves a lot of questions open, whether or not the LS clutch has the splines of the Muncie...

What is exactly different with the motormounts.

Does the engine fysically fit in between a-arms and such ?

Click to expand...

You really need read the threads about guys that have actually done the swap, I am quoting them, and really hate being in the middle, and you being overseas from here, makes that super expensive to get so much as a bolt....ask TT about that.....:surrender:

I would ASSume to just swap the clutch disc for a muncie fit clutch...NO??

or maybe a custom disc, which I would imagine is in production by now....

but yes, the engine being a 90 degree V8 of similar dimensions, it seems to fit quite nicely, but of course they altered the engine mounts a bit, so the adaptor plates....I would think they could be made on a drill press from 1/8" steel plate....maybe 1/4"? and use the stock C3 engine mounts....
but I"M not sure of that last point about mounts....

I BET there is a file on hand here with the mount adaptors....very surprised if not....it's a popular swap, and if I was doing my swap maybe 6 years later on, I would never have considered the L98 style I have now....LS all the way baby....but that was year '97 and the LS was on the market in the vette for about 4 months.....

:hissyfit::hissyfit::smash::surrender:

Belgian1979vette said:

Not wanting to go to a carb anyway.

Does it only fit with the tranny of the LS1 (weren't these trannys in the rear?) or would a regular clutch housing (Muncie) just fit.

Click to expand...

the C5 and C6 have the trans in the rear, F-bodies have the trans mounted like any other car. Adapter plates are available but if I had a choice Id try to get the six speed manual trans

the engine fits easily in the C3, maybe you have to move the alternator and the ac compressor up, there are brackets available, google " high mount brackets LS1"

MYBAD79 said:

If you get a complete engine incl all the accessories it's relatively simple, it's been done many times.
When I say complete I mean a take-out from a rear ended or T-boned car.... incl tranny, computer, headers, engine mounts, harniss, water pump, alt, AC....
Piecing this together might be painful and expensive, the ignition coils alone are like $500..... there's no distributor, the LSx has eight coils, so you can't just put an old style intake and a carb on there

Click to expand...

Yes ...you can go w/ a carb... if you want to



Yes- you can run a distributor...but it's a Ford



For the clutch...The LSx bellhousing pattern is almost the same as a Gen 1- you can use 6 out of the 7 bolts- no issues. The block to crank mount is FLUSH on the LSx- and out .400 on a Gen one. This is easily solved by a Flywheel (and pilot bearing) made for this application- I know McLeod makes one... This gives you plenty of options on the drivetrain...but as a whole LSx stuff is more expensive than the Gen 1 stuff (clutch is a good example).

The C5 "batwing" oil pan won't create any issues w/ clearance..

Only other real mod is the heater outputs have to be modded because they hit the a-arm. But a 90 degree and a little work you are there.

Richard

Richard454 said:

MYBAD79 said:

If you get a complete engine incl all the accessories it's relatively simple, it's been done many times.
When I say complete I mean a take-out from a rear ended or T-boned car.... incl tranny, computer, headers, engine mounts, harniss, water pump, alt, AC....
Piecing this together might be painful and expensive, the ignition coils alone are like $500..... there's no distributor, the LSx has eight coils, so you can't just put an old style intake and a carb on there

Click to expand...

Yes ...you can go w/ a carb... if you want to



Yes- you can run a distributor...but it's a Ford



Richard

Click to expand...

I didn't mention the aftermarket carb conversion kits because they are a little pricey - price might have come down since I last looked into these parts. One of the local guys here has a 77 with a carb'd LS1, very fast car

overall, for the money , if i had a chance to get a whole car for the conversion (donor) I'd use the stock FI system, plenty of power for most of us and good gas mileage ... however, a carb'd stroker LSx is a noce engine

Before deciding to go w/ my V12...I was seriously looking at this-since I had a L88 hood w/ the aircleaner set up...


Carb conversion pricey? I personally think a LOT of the LS parts are too pricey....

that 454 is not only pricey, it's way beyond my budget :lol:

I've been in the middle of an LS1 swap for far too long, but the average vette owner can tackle it with no problems....I just tend to be slow with my projects. Look at the Build thread in my sig for starters. Also, I hate to point you to CF, but the Epic LSx thread has TONS of info, As Gene said. You could read the whole thing (I did), but your best bet is to just search it with the question you have. Almost all questions and options have been answered. Only wiring seems to lack there, but that's because the Conversions and Hybrids Section of Ls1tech.com covers the wiring pretty well.

Here's a few partial answers to some of your questions:
Yes, a Muncie will bolt up. I believe the bellhousing works, but misses a bolt or something. For a clutch, you need a conversion clutch package for proper fit and splining. I believe Mcleod (sp?) makes one.

I haven't worried about this too much because I went with a 2000 Firebird LS1 and matching 6 speed. As it's been said, Fbodies have the trans in the conventional location. In fact, all LSx cars (rwd ones) have the trans in the conventional spot Except the vettes.

Motormount plates are a dime a dozen these days. I spent $100 on mine 2 years ago. They can now be easily had for $50. There are multiple designs, but most are simply plates that adapt old 3 bolt motor mounts to the 4 bolt mounting points on the block. They also typically set the engine (bellhousing mounting flange reference plane) 1" forward. You can get 1" back mounting plates (stock location), which is what I run, but there are advantages and disadvantages to doing either. That you would have to determine for you. Also, don;t just go with the cheapest. I would go with a pair someone else has used in your applicaiton. There's a few floating out there that don't compensate for the thickness of the plate, which will not allow alignment of the motor mounts to the frame. The thicker the plate, the lower on the plate the old chevy mounts have to bolt up. I can recommend Speedhound plates, but I believe he went out of business.

Yes, the engine fits rather nicely. It's actually dimensionally smaller then a SBC, but only just. However, the water pump needs to be "modified" slightly. The stock heater ports need to be either redirected or plugged and taps put somewhere else. Also, a straight water neck needs to be installed on the intake. These need to be done because they all would be going into the Upper LCA on the passenger side.
Accessory locations are also important. I don't believe C5 acc locations work in a C3 frame, but I could be wrong. Either of the above listed threads go over what acc fits, what doesn't and why. F-bodies work the best, but the A/C compressor needs to be moved up high (brackets are available). I don't run A/C, so this wasn't a concern for me.

Donors can be trucks, F-bodies, vettes, anything with an LSx. Some require more work and just depends on your specific goals, skill level and needs.

And just for nomenclature, LSx refers to LS1,2,3,4,6,7,9,A, etc. LSX refers to the GMPP LSX iron block.

Goodluck with the research and the swap. It's a lot of fun :beer:

I have been intentionally staying out of this thread because I don't have any experience with the swap. However, I think the biggest hurdle to this project is going to be the distance/freight logistics of importing so many of these parts. With that as the primary consideration, I would strongly recommend passing on the LS block and going with a later Gen1 block. After the engine is built to whatever you want, it's straight up "plug and play". You can easily make 400+hp and all your existing accessories plug right in. I don't know if it's a concern but you can make one almost indistinguishable from the OEM engine.

clutchdust said:

I have been intentionally staying out of this thread because I don't have any experience with the swap. However, I think the biggest hurdle to this project is going to be the distance/freight logistics of importing so many of these parts. With that as the primary consideration, I would strongly recommend passing on the LS block and going with a later Gen1 block. After the engine is built to whatever you want, it's straight up "plug and play". You can easily make 400+hp and all your existing accessories plug right in. I don't know if it's a concern but you can make one almost indistinguishable from the OEM engine.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking that the conversion is going to require a lot more parts than i thought. Therefor i'm still looking into my possible options for the replacement of the faulty block i'm put up with now. Anyway i'm looking at it, it's going to cast me a lot of money. Still have to figure out what is the best way to get an engine block machine like it should and being able to check it out before it's shipped to me.

Belgian1979vette said:

clutchdust said:

I have been intentionally staying out of this thread because I don't have any experience with the swap. However, I think the biggest hurdle to this project is going to be the distance/freight logistics of importing so many of these parts. With that as the primary consideration, I would strongly recommend passing on the LS block and going with a later Gen1 block. After the engine is built to whatever you want, it's straight up "plug and play". You can easily make 400+hp and all your existing accessories plug right in. I don't know if it's a concern but you can make one almost indistinguishable from the OEM engine.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking that the conversion is going to require a lot more parts than i thought. Therefor i'm still looking into my possible options for the replacement of the faulty block i'm put up with now. Anyway i'm looking at it, it's going to cast me a lot of money. Still have to figure out what is the best way to get an engine block machine like it should and being able to check it out before it's shipped to me.

Click to expand...

I been mulling this over following this thread....since I would love to have a LS in my '72, I wonder about the concept of I somehow get a video of the engine running and you get this entire running L98 with headers and all accessory drives mounts....and induction except up/over tubes on air....

and I go find a LS engine....trick is the shipping of this would be worth more than the engine, over HERE, I suspect....see comments about TT/Marck's bolts.....

email if you think feasible ....if not, not to worry, just a thought, nothing serious right this second....

:twitch::thumbs:

Belgian1979vette said:

Still have to figure out what is the best way to get an engine block machine like it should and being able to check it out before it's shipped to me.

Click to expand...

Summit sells seasoned and new blocks (SB roller cam block, 1pc RMS):

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-150100/

seasoned $650, new $830.....

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-10105123/

never had a problem with stuff I bought from Summit and their customer service is great :thumbs:

I just did that swap, drops right in w/ stock components and some conversion mounts. W/ T56 it uses a stock 700R4 driveshaft, no prob. Easy mod on X member completes the swap. This is a GTO engine so it needed a little notch on the dr. side motor mount frame outrigger for the lo mount alt.

Ok, thanks Gene for the suggestion. Will keep it in mind, and you're right the shipping would probably kill me in the process.

TT, looks great, thanks for the pictures.
Mybad thanks also. These are however 350 blocks and seeing the rods i have (reusable and expensive enough not to through them out) i'm stuck with a 400 type block unless i would go down to a 327 ci.

My project has come to serious halt for the moment, at least untill i figure out what and how i'm going to get a block (whatever it may be) Mayor problem is getting quality machinework and having it checked out before it's shipped.