Pinion and rack steering systems

I hate the way my steering acts on my car and was also looking at a R&P steering system. Would like some real life input on them. I hear that the brackets allow for way too much flex, but would like to know some things for sure.

I put my own rack install in the '72 over winter 01-02 been in there fine, I got lucky and got a fresh rack from a '92 Grand Am, it was ever more clean than the rest of the underhood, I made my own brackets that weigh maybe 10% of the mess others have commercially made....The tie rods are not equal length, but bump steer is not so bad, so I leave them alone...steering is now 2.7 turns lock to lock, instead of the stock 3.7 turns.....huge improvement.....and I used just two universal joints.....

:shocking:

that Flaming River kit seems to be the better choice, the support bracket bolts in between the frame and acts like a cross brace..... the Steeroids brackets are garbage, way too thin.... would like to get my hands on a set so I can use their crap as a template for my own (solid) brackets. The Grand Am rack is only $100 at Rockauto or any other parts store for that matter....
I got my rack from Rockauto, the steering shaft and Ujoints from Summit, think the parts total was like $250 but I still need the tie rods and the rod ends, haven't installed it yet but will soon start the install..... Last time I drove my 79 I noticed some weird feel in the steering, like a clunking feel when turning the steering wheel..... I'm guessing my steering box is about to die.....

Karsten, you seen my rack install?? been some time, if so....

anyway, the steel in my brackets is only ~1/8" thick, and main support is only a 1" square tube, cut/welded at an angle to support the rack on the left side, and same gig on the right side...simple clean easy install, took a 1" wide 1/8 thick steel bar from bottom of left bracket, and it goes to the forward/outer where the old power assist bracket was tied in on bottom of frame, been that way for years, solid as hell...even with the addition of the cross support between the A arms....Given my experience, I fail to see the need for 1/4" steel WAY over engineered heavy mounting brackets....especially when lousy welded....:harhar:......

i think Marck posted a video that showed the flex in those Steeroids brackets.... flimsy crap..... but nicely powdercoated

I bought a steeroids system for my 69 and the brackets that attaches to the frame is a joke...
I completely modified them to a rock solid design. I would not dare drive with the kit as it was.
Otherwise the kit was ok I think. I am very pleased with how the car responds to steering input and it is very stable. I also decreased the pump pressure and it now has a nice firm feeling demanding a bit of arm muscle to rotate the steering wheel. So far not one drop of oil from the system but we will see as time pssses.

And it's sevely overpriced for what you get, a cheap reconditioned/painted steering rack that costs next to nothing, some crappy brackets and cheap non swivel lines and some nice flaming river joints. the FR stuff is the only nice part of the kit.

it's about $1300 , right ???

that's about $900 more than what you spend on the parts LOL

I'll swap in a later style small pump with external reservoir when I install my rack.... that and the pump bracket is probably another $200 but still wayyyy less than the Steeroids kit.....

If someone has a plan of the brackets and some partnumbers : greatly appreciated. This will not be a short term project, but I plan on doing something like this.

Maybe Marck can take the dimensions and make us some nice 3D drawings



Please ?

I have the part numbers for the u joint, steering shaft and adapters .... In the garage .....

Belgian1979vette said:

If someone has a plan of the brackets and some partnumbers : greatly appreciated. This will not be a short term project, but I plan on doing something like this.

Click to expand...

I drew up some very crude drawings, I hardly draftsman, so I can send them along for your curiousity.....been on the car with C4 fat tires for about 11 years now.....

I think they maybe been posted on this site, some time ago, but if not....gimme your email and I can send along, pretty sure they still on this computer....


:gurney:

I'm uploading - well trying to - add a set of jpgs in pdf format. you can use the 1 inch squares to Reverse Engineer a set of brackets - or modify and strengthen for your use. Sorry they are Inch squares and for a Pontiac Grand Am Rack.

If they don't show in the downloads section in a day or so - drop me a pm and I'll shoot them over to you.

Cheers - Jim

Two other ideas to consider - BORGSON has a nice page or two on setting up linkages for steering systems :http://www.borgeson.com/Designing/basic.html
You can eliminate the rag joint and use a couple of supported u-joints for more solid control and safety for front end collision. Also some key tips on aligning your U Joints.

Second point there are a number of "Steering Quickners" that will reduce the lock to lock turning. Something else to consider. I'm looking at a set up for 2:1 to reduce the turn ratio for quicker/tighter response when I get it to the rack. Here's one sopurce:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Small-Body-21-Steering-Quickener,8280.html not endorsing there are others to choose from...


Cheers - Jim

you can do it

The most important piece to strengthen is the driver side mount. Because the tie rods have ball joints at each end all the rotational degrees of freedom are released. No bending or torsional moments can be transfered. The only forces that can be imposed on the R&P are tension and compression loads along the axis of the tie rods. Because of the very small angles between the tie rods and rack the largest vector of these applied forces is along the rack axis. The flanges on the rack transfers these loads to the frame through the driver side bracket. The bracket must be able to react these lateral loads. The bracket should be gusseted laterally. There are pictures in my rack and pinion post.

Grampy

Was you able to upload the PDF files of the brackets?

Check the downloads section. As a member you can download. There is a file there called R&P Reverse Engineering - or something like that under the "Templates". Also under "Chassis and Suspension"there is some more info on Rack and Pinion conversion. Also member MYBAD79 did a nice build to follow. I got a Grand Am rebuilt rack in new condition off eBay for less than 100 bucks.

Best of Luck.
Cheers - Jim

phantomjock said:

Check the downloads section. As a member you can download. There is a file there called R&P Reverse Engineering - or something like that under the "Templates". Also under "Chassis and Suspension"there is some more info on Rack and Pinion conversion. Also member MYBAD79 did a nice build to follow. I got a Grand Am rebuilt rack in new condition off eBay for less than 100 bucks.

Best of Luck.
Cheers - Jim

Click to expand...

I paid 30 at the junkyard course that was 14 years ago.....

prrtt:

I found the brackets you told me about. Are the squares 1" x 1" squares? I can get measurements if they are. Thanks for your time its much appreciated!

Did anyone make diagrams or take measurements?

SRountree said:

I found the brackets you told me about. Are the squares 1" x 1" squares? I can get measurements if they are. Thanks for your time its much appreciated!

Click to expand...

Yes - those are 1x1 inch squares -- good call! I think if you search on mybad79 - you'll find his measurements on the setup he built.

Cheers - Jim