Wiring 101

73 Mike

I'll drive it someday
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
714
Location
Boston, MA
I have a number of wiring questions an thought I'd start with some of the basic ones.

Connections: I'm trying to make nice, neat, long lasting connections. In some cases (like Spals) a fair amperage will be going through these. What is the best way to make these connections? Solder and tape over? Are crimp connectors adequate? Certainly the latter is neater and quicker. I just want to make sure it'll last.

Wire covering: Are most people using those corrugated, split plastic flexible conduits on multiple wire harnesses? I think they are far neater than using the cloth covering that the General prefered.

Higher Amp Alternator: I remember reading about a 2000 page discussion on the forum about the need for an additional wire from the alternator to the battery for high Amp applications. I just don't remember it coming to any conclusions. Is it needed? It happens to be a convenient time to do this while I'm running the Spal wiring.

Power Distribution Blocks: Is this the correct name for these power terminal blocks? This is kind of what I'm thinking of using in the battery compartment:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0438849705&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I want to run fuse, dedicated wires for the Spals, MSD box (sorry Bird, I know you hate these) and radio. It would be far more convenient to ave a point of connection separate from the battery terminal connector but I can't seem to find these at any of the on line catalogs. I assume that I'm using the wrong name.

This probably is electrical 101 for most of you but I'm not very good at this and don't want to mess up. :shocking:
 
I been doing electronics for well over 50 years now, built my own radios in elementary school, age 66 here...been a while....

suffice to say you can NOT beat a soldered wire, no matter what/who...

and so to the wiring routing....you best bet is to take the spal fans off the alt stud directly and the alt is of course grounded to the engine pretty good from the case...and of course to the frame .....

so to make sure that on ANY car there is a nice heavy wire from engine to frame/bird cage...especially if any engine computer involved...

fan ground can come from frame, nice and short....I put RTV/silicone sealant over all bolts into steel that carry any ground wires...prevent corrosion on account of dissimilar metals/water....good forever....

I assume you will use a breaker/fuse between the alt stud and the fan relay/controller....seems the controllers with variable speed don't like being fed by the alt. directly, some design flaw in them....my scope says only 700 mv of ripple on the line, should be ok, but apparently their gear is more finicky...

I can understand some preamps/head units being run off the battery directly, even with their own wires, but a GOOD power amp with a chopper power supply will run just fine off the alt output directly, no sweat....

that heavy wire from the alt to the starter/battery, BETTER have a nice ~40 amp fuse on it...or you got a muvva focker of a FIRE and a glowing CAL ROD for a non stop igniter....

your choice....

:shocking::shocking:
 
For 12 volt dc the heavier and shorter the wire the better, juice drops off dramatically, shows up on fan rpm.
Best wire to use is marine quality.
Always solder joints. Never use acid core solder
Use copper antisieze for bolt on connections
Extra grounds don't hurt

Here is an old post with the junction blocks/fuselinks
You can replace the old style fuselinks with these if you want.



Think about this setup.

Get a fuse block such as one of these with stud terminals.
https://www.vtewarehouse.com/content/electromech/fuse/fuse.php

Mount it near the alternator (inner fender etc)
Run the charge wire from the alternator to one post and on the other side of the fuse run to the starter. Most newer cars use fuses or breakers instead of links anyway.
On the alternator side of the fuse add approriate size wires for the fans and the headlight thru relays as Bird mentioned. These can be also fused with inline maxi fuses like these. That way there is no high load thru any switches like the headlite switch, which can get very hot and everything is fused.

https://www.vtewarehouse.com/content/electromech/fuse/html/maxi/maxifuse.php

The headlights and fans will receive up to 14.8 (alt regualtor max) and you should notice the headlite brightness and the fan rpm increase.

The idea is to run feeds as short as possible. No sense going to the starter and back for heavy loads. The new heavy charge wire to the starter will be more than enough for the rest of the car.

While you're at it, you can upgrade the heater/a/c blower ground from 18 ga to 12 too.

Just for fun I ran a 2 ga ground wire from the frame to the birdcage inside istead of just relying on the braided one with the 2 rusty sheet metal screws.

InterioGnd2.jpg


Here are the lengths of the battery cables. Don't know what the motor mount to starter bracket is.

Neg4.jpg

Pos5.jpg


You can get the good cable and ends at a welding supply.

weldcable.jpg
 
I like your guidance 010752 :thumbs:

Do not run noisy loads directly off the alt ouput terminal when you have a 2-wire alt. As 010752 says, connect the sense wire to your power distribution block and source all power from there....with the exception of sensitive electronics like EFI computers etc. Best to source power and ground directly from the battery for these type of electronics.
 
I also like solder joints. But if I'm running something that might need a quicker way to disconnect, I'll use a male/female spade or bullet connector to create a disconnect point. I will solder the spade or bullet connectors to each end of the wire.

I also like heat shrink tubing and I like to put a little dielectric grease on the connection before shrinking the tubing. I use a double layer of heat shrink if I am concerned about rub through. I've found some really good rubber heat shrink in the electrical section at Lowe's or Home Depot. I'm not a big fan of the plastic stuff but will use it if necessary.

I'm not opposed to using crimp connectors but prefer solder for the important stuff.

I do use the plastic corrugated conduits for wire harnesses. I use a small black plastic zip tie to secure it in place.

When upgrading an alternator in our old cars, I do think it is necessary to run more wire from the alternator but you don't have to take it to the battery, you can just go to the starter as that wire is the weak link. You can upgrade the cable from the starter to the battery but I'm not convinced that is necessary. It certainly doesn't hurt anything . When adding more wire from the alternator to the starter, you don't have to replace the wire that is already there. I ran a new 8 gauge wire in parallel with the original wire first to the horn relay and then from there directly to the starter. I also used a piece of fusible link at the starter end to protect the new wire. Use a fusible link that is two gauges smaller than the wire it is protecting. For example, if you are protecting a 12 gauge wire, you need a 16 gauge fusible link. The only issue with my approach is that my ammeter reads less than half of what it used to read. Not a big deal to me as I only use the gauge to know if the system is charging or draining or neutral which I can still do, the needle just doesn't move as far as it did before.

As far as a distribution block, you might check a local car audio/stereo shop or supplier. They have some pretty neat stuff out there for these high end audio systems that are being installed these days.

Hope this helps.

DC
 
I have a number of wiring questions an thought I'd start with some of the basic ones.

Connections: I'm trying to make nice, neat, long lasting connections. In some cases (like Spals) a fair amperage will be going through these. What is the best way to make these connections? Solder and tape over? Are crimp connectors adequate? Certainly the latter is neater and quicker. I just want to make sure it'll last.Crimp connections are fine when done with a GOOD crimping tool, such as those made by Thomas and Betts

Wire covering: Are most people using those corrugated, split plastic flexible conduits on multiple wire harnesses? I think they are far neater than using the cloth covering that the General prefered. Convuluted tubing is fine, but once again, quality is key. The cheap crap melts easy. Use the good stuff here.

Higher Amp Alternator: I remember reading about a 2000 page discussion on the forum about the need for an additional wire from the alternator to the battery for high Amp applications. I just don't remember it coming to any conclusions. Is it needed? It happens to be a convenient time to do this while I'm running the Spal wiring.

Power Distribution Blocks: Is this the correct name for these power terminal blocks? This is kind of what I'm thinking of using in the battery compartment:
They are power ditribution blocks. Most suppliers call them the wrong name
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0438849705&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I want to run fuse, dedicated wires for the Spals, MSD box (sorry Bird, I know you hate these) and radio. It would be far more convenient to ave a point of connection separate from the battery terminal connector but I can't seem to find these at any of the on line catalogs. I assume that I'm using the wrong name.

This probably is electrical 101 for most of you but I'm not very good at this and don't want to mess up. :shocking:

Mike, I have a rather large article in the tech section about wiring basics.
Soldering terminals does improve LOW LEVEL signal wires, but is not necessary for power wires when crimped correctly(Flame away). I routinely make connections for 1,000's of amperes, and solder is AGAINST CODE. You will not find one solder joint between Hoover Dam and your home. It is best used, improves, and becomes necessary under 2 volts for signal wires.
Smearing silicone grease over a splice , then shrinking good 3M heat shrink over it is a standard practise for phone wires in wet conditions, and works well.
The key here is, fewer connections the better, but don't lose any sleep over it
Bolt connections, star washers are your friend. Most people do not know, they are NOT reusable. Once tightened, they lose their crimp and are done. Buy an assortment package of them.
Feel free to call me with any wiring question. After 32 years, I have learned a trick or two.
(Good luck with that POS MSD box.) :rofl:
 
Just for the naysayers, solder joints and heat shrink with silicone equates to SS braided teflon lines.
IF only the best will do, knock yourselves out. It's a Chevy, not Air Force One. (Which, BTW, is all soldered with eutectic solder).
Wire is the key here. Use good insulation. Teflon is required on airplanes, but hardly necessary.
Ford uses cheap wire, and I have seen Fords 15 years old that were trashed more than any 40 year old GM car.The wire sold by Keep It Clean is good material.
On the alternator wire question, I believe Powermaster has a chart showing wire gauge sizes for various alternator outputs/lengths.
 
Eh, soldering wire is second nature to me, so I just solder everything, and have found SO many crimp connectors here on the EAST coast, full of water and corrosion and flame outs you all dont see out there in the desert....the amount of burnt up shit is just pathetic, and from the current crop of CHINA MADE thin walled JUNK connectors we see today at ALL the supply houses the typical CONNsumer would go to.....go to crimp that HD/Lowes/Rat Shack junk and tug on the wire, that POS comes right outta it....gotta use screw tabs like on a SEC/breaker in your main panel at home....

Bird/Jeff has a in with the good shit, being sparky and all....much less has a house full of the olde tyme good shit......

I like RTV for wiring insulation, never an issue with it over years of use, shit, that stuff was recommended by Sylvania...TV maker decades ago...for use to stop 30kv COLD on one of their silliness units....40 years ago or so....worked like a charm....

I have run all electric fans with the shortest lead possible directly off the alt....no sweat, all computer/electronic signal grounds to the battery direct, or engine/frame, whatever works best....:clobbered:
 
Mike, I have a rather large article in the tech section about wiring basics.
Soldering terminals does improve LOW LEVEL signal wires, but is not necessary for power wires when crimped correctly(Flame away). I routinely make connections for 1,000's of amperes, and solder is AGAINST CODE. You will not find one solder joint between Hoover Dam and your home. It is best used, improves, and becomes necessary under 2 volts for signal wires.
Smearing silicone grease over a splice , then shrinking good 3M heat shrink over it is a standard practise for phone wires in wet conditions, and works well.
The key here is, fewer connections the better, but don't lose any sleep over it
Bolt connections, star washers are your friend. Most people do not know, they are NOT reusable. Once tightened, they lose their crimp and are done. Buy an assortment package of them.
Feel free to call me with any wiring question. After 32 years, I have learned a trick or two.
(Good luck with that POS MSD box.) :rofl:

Some good info there Jeff.

31083_129561113723337_100000083480696_344321_7415505_n.jpg
 
I used to soldering and heat shrink everything on the car. Now I crimp with non-insulated connectors and heat shrink. The big problem with a solder connection is it makes a solid point on the wire and the wire is more likely to brake there.
 
I used to soldering and heat shrink everything on the car. Now I crimp with non-insulated connectors and heat shrink. The big problem with a solder connection is it makes a solid point on the wire and the wire is more likely to brake there.

ALL the crimp connectors I seen in the stores these daze have been cheep China? junk, the metal will not hold even good enough for a minor tug on the wire.......IF you can find good ones anywhere it's fine, I suppose...

I have never had a solder connection break, unless it was a cold joint, improperly done....NOR the wire itself.....

:flash:
 
I have never had a solder connection break, unless it was a cold joint, improperly done....NOR the wire itself.....

:flash:

:thumbs:

Never had one fail either, with or without heatshrink, even on pieces like trailers stored outside.
Gene is right on with the silicone.
3M still makes a special silicone weatherproofing tape for splices.
All our telephone lines are gel filled and use gelled filled crimp butt connectors.

BTW
GM originally induction soldered the ends on the copper clad aluminum battery cables after crimping, on these Corvettes.
Probably helped a shitty cable last a long time.
 
All our telephone lines are gel filled and use gelled filled crimp butt connectors.

The guys call that "Ickey pick". It is a silicone grease. 25 pair lines and more have that inside for outside, U/G usage. They also pressurise those cables, so that puntures leak air out. You may have seen an air cylinder chained to a telephone pole before. That is a temp fix for damaged cables.
Their connectors are usually "jelly beans" or "dolphins."
 
I used to soldering and heat shrink everything on the car. Now I crimp with non-insulated connectors and heat shrink. The big problem with a solder connection is it makes a solid point on the wire and the wire is more likely to brake there.

ALL the crimp connectors I seen in the stores these daze have been cheep China? junk, the metal will not hold even good enough for a minor tug on the wire.......IF you can find good ones anywhere it's fine, I suppose...

I have never had a solder connection break, unless it was a cold joint, improperly done....NOR the wire itself.....

:flash:

Yes. Alot of crimp connectors are crap. 3M, T&B, and some others are good. Use Stainless crimps for high heat. They will not lose their crimp under high temp like tin plated copper ones will.
Oven elements use SS crimps with asbestos insulation. Yes, we still use asbestos wire sometimes.
 
I used to soldering and heat shrink everything on the car. Now I crimp with non-insulated connectors and heat shrink. The big problem with a solder connection is it makes a solid point on the wire and the wire is more likely to brake there.



I have never had a solder connection break, unless it was a cold joint, improperly done....NOR the wire itself.....

:flash:

Again, if you want to take the time to solder, knock yourself out. It's just not necessary if you crimp a connector properly, and use the good stuff.
 
I used to soldering and heat shrink everything on the car. Now I crimp with non-insulated connectors and heat shrink. The big problem with a solder connection is it makes a solid point on the wire and the wire is more likely to brake there.



I have never had a solder connection break, unless it was a cold joint, improperly done....NOR the wire itself.....

:flash:

Again, if you want to take the time to solder, knock yourself out. It's just not necessary if you crimp a connector properly, and use the good stuff.

There you go Jeff, that's what I trying to say, the shit we easily find is NOT the good stuff, not in any retail joint I seen recently for many years now...I using some stuff my neighbor has, and most of it is piss poor thin metal...honestly, it's so bad, you see that tab on the wood block, the one with the OMG wire from the alt?? had to sweat it on myself, drill the hole, could not find any eyelet that size worth a flip....for some time now, I been taking apart old wiring ends and reworking/soldering them.....

it's another version of the cheepening of all products we all bitch about, this one is a pet peeve of mine.....

:hissyfit::hissyfit:
 
All our telephone lines are gel filled and use gelled filled crimp butt connectors.

The guys call that "Ickey pick". It is a silicone grease. 25 pair lines and more have that inside for outside, U/G usage. They also pressurise those cables, so that puntures leak air out. You may have seen an air cylinder chained to a telephone pole before. That is a temp fix for damaged cables.
Their connectors are usually "jelly beans" or "dolphins."

The gel filled 5 pair line goes right to all of our terminal boxes on the side of the houses. They use the gell filled butt connectors (3M) on the neighbohood pedestal boxes.
They have been converting over for the last 10 years or longer.
Just saying what is used here.
As Gene said before, this isn't the desert, conditions a little different here.

And then we have asthetics on a C3.................
 
All our telephone lines are gel filled and use gelled filled crimp butt connectors.

The guys call that "Ickey pick". It is a silicone grease. 25 pair lines and more have that inside for outside, U/G usage. They also pressurise those cables, so that puntures leak air out. You may have seen an air cylinder chained to a telephone pole before. That is a temp fix for damaged cables.
Their connectors are usually "jelly beans" or "dolphins."

The gel filled 5 pair line goes right to all of our terminal boxes on the side of the houses. They use the gell filled butt connectors (3M) on the neighbohood pedestal boxes.
They have been converting over for the last 10 years or longer.
Just saying what is used here.
As Gene said before, this isn't the desert, conditions a little different here.

And then we have asthetics on a C3.................

Yeh, I need bury more of my wiring into some sheathing, some of it is still bare naked....but soon as I do that, there will be another project...can't win....:devil:
 
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