00fxd
Well-known member
You are mixing up the stiff body mounts that IMO may do damage to you body with a soft ride [mushy] suspension. Thats not what I am sayin'.
Poly body mounts - apparently junk
- Thread starter MYBAD79
- Start date
You are mixing up the stiff body mounts that IMO may do damage to you body with a soft ride [mushy] suspension. Thats not what I am sayin'.
MYBAD79
Moderator
Update: job is done ... Again .... 
Started the replacement today and got the driver side done in about 2hrs :smash:
For those who missed it:
http://vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7083
My poly body mounts crumbled to dust... #4 was actually the best of the four :smash: the other three were just gone, I am still wondering what supported the body on the frame .....
The ugly:
More ugly and the new Energy Suspension bushings:
New #1
New #4
I hope these last a little longer than the junk that I installed in 2005...... Time will tell ....
Started the replacement today and got the driver side done in about 2hrs :smash:
For those who missed it:
http://vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7083
My poly body mounts crumbled to dust... #4 was actually the best of the four :smash: the other three were just gone, I am still wondering what supported the body on the frame .....
The ugly:
More ugly and the new Energy Suspension bushings:
New #1
New #4
I hope these last a little longer than the junk that I installed in 2005...... Time will tell ....
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
When this thread was new, I remember looking at my '72 mounts, aluminum pucks, and wondering about the whitish looking corrosion on the surface, good old dissimilar metal action....but it didn't look like anything gross happening, maybe I take another look.....:shocking::shocking::shocking::crap:
MYBAD79
Moderator
I took some dimensions:
2" diameter, 1" thick, 7/8" hole for the center tube...
If these fail again I'll just have some pucks machined from 2" round aluminum
By the way, you can see on the photos that the old and new (no name brand as well as the EnergyvSuspension bushings) are tapered - there is no reason for this, the body mounts could be like a 1" thick washer and they would fit just fine.....
2" diameter, 1" thick, 7/8" hole for the center tube...
If these fail again I'll just have some pucks machined from 2" round aluminum
By the way, you can see on the photos that the old and new (no name brand as well as the EnergyvSuspension bushings) are tapered - there is no reason for this, the body mounts could be like a 1" thick washer and they would fit just fine.....
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MYBAD79
Moderator
I believe what you're saying is that the rubber would allow some more flex - the frame is flexing and the rubber would probably keep the body from cracking...... Now, until I drove around with crumbled body mounts (or no body mounts at all) I would have agreed..... My '79 body was partially unsupported and dropped so that the drivers door hit my sidepipe..... That's what made me look wtf is wrong with the car.... Lol
Sam Cogley
Well-known member
My suspension is by no means "mushy." Also, the early C3s used aluminum mount "cushions" - the poly has more give than that.
00fxd
Well-known member
Didn't know that about the early c3's. Either way, if the car had rubber body mounts I wouldn't use harder mounts of any kind in that area. I would use them in some suspension positions. FYI, in the last few weeks some of my urethane suspension bushing are starting to squeak ...
Been installed for a few years.
Sam Cogley
Well-known member
To my understanding, the only reasons the mounts were changed from aluminum to rubber were deterioration of the aluminum (it was in contact with the steel frame ears and body reinforcements) and because some people thought the ride was too harsh. Structurally everything is the same, though the aluminum mounts were thinner so the frame ears might be located in slightly different positions.
Other than buying poly mounts from disreputable companies, the slightly stiffer mounts aren't going to cause any harm.
As far as the squeaking is concerned, Energy Suspension makes a super-tacky grease that doesn't seem to ever wear away.
Other than buying poly mounts from disreputable companies, the slightly stiffer mounts aren't going to cause any harm.
As far as the squeaking is concerned, Energy Suspension makes a super-tacky grease that doesn't seem to ever wear away.
MYBAD79
Moderator
Squeeking is only a issue if you use poly at the control arms - where the bushings act like a bearing..... What material you put between frame and body is completely up to you.... Rubber is quiet expensive and once compressed by the torque of the bolts it's just as hard as poly..... Or wood for that matter .... Lol.....
Compressed rubber is not soft..... Therefore it's just as harsh as poly or aluminum.....
Deteriorated body mounts are harsher on the body than solid aluminum.....
Pick your poison
Compressed rubber is not soft..... Therefore it's just as harsh as poly or aluminum.....
Deteriorated body mounts are harsher on the body than solid aluminum.....
Pick your poison
cocobolo
Member
Just doing a little imagineering out loud here.
I wonder if there would be any benefit to fabbing a cup shape around both the upper and lower mounts for protection. You should be able to protect at least 90% of the mounts from getting pounded by road debris. Don't know how much those mounts compress when you hit a good bump, but if they are torqued right in the first place, I doubt they would compress much further. If you made the cups about the same size as the mounts they should contain the mounts well.
I wonder if there would be any benefit to fabbing a cup shape around both the upper and lower mounts for protection. You should be able to protect at least 90% of the mounts from getting pounded by road debris. Don't know how much those mounts compress when you hit a good bump, but if they are torqued right in the first place, I doubt they would compress much further. If you made the cups about the same size as the mounts they should contain the mounts well.
MYBAD79
Moderator
I don't think that road debris is an issue as my poly mounts deteriorated inside a garage, the car was driven maybe 4000-5000 miles in 6 years or so...... I am convinced this cheap junk material would have dry rotted and cracked to pieces if I had just placed it on the shelf next to the Vette.....
To your idea: yes, a cup or a strap around the little body mount "puck" would probably help keeping it in place when it crumbles like mine did.... I actually did consider wrapping my new poly mounts with electrical tape but then again, I wanted to be able to see if they crack like the other ones......
Tool&Die4Life
Well-known member
Sorry to interrupt, but are these the dimensions for all the poly mounts? How many would i need for the whole car? I need to replace all of mine but none of them are in good enough condition for me to get dimensions. Has anyone ever tried using Nylon or Delron for the mounts? Its super cheap, machines easily, and does have some give to it for road bumps, shakes, rattles and whatnot.
MYBAD79
Moderator
Delron might be a good material, no personal experience though....
The Energy Suspension poly mounts seem to be good quality so far. At $50 for the set including sleeves and washers it is "probably" not worth having a set machined from Delron or aluminum - time will tell how long these poly mounts last....
The dimensions I posted are for the "cushion" that goes between the frame and the body.
Here's an example:
The piece that sits between body and frame does not need to have that cone shape... a 1" thick donut with 2" outer diameter would do the job. The center steel tube is 7/8" ....
The Energy Suspension poly mounts seem to be good quality so far. At $50 for the set including sleeves and washers it is "probably" not worth having a set machined from Delron or aluminum - time will tell how long these poly mounts last....
The dimensions I posted are for the "cushion" that goes between the frame and the body.
Here's an example:
The piece that sits between body and frame does not need to have that cone shape... a 1" thick donut with 2" outer diameter would do the job. The center steel tube is 7/8" ....
Tool&Die4Life
Well-known member
I called my plastics guy today and told him what i was doing. Instead of nylon or delron, he suggested some poly-something-or-other (i can never remember the name of this stuff and definitely cant pronounce it) material. I've used the stuff before in prototype dies and if it can survive life in a 3K ton press, it can survive whatever i can throw at it.
I also pulled up energy suspension's kit and it looks like part of the bushing is used as a locator and interlocks with the other bushing. It appears that a flat donut type bushing would leave slop and allow the body to move.
Your right about the price and machining the material. When you factor in all the cost involved there is no way a machine shop could touch their price including sleeves and washers. Its the old high volume-low price vs. low volume-high price situation.
Anyway thank you for your help, since i need to replace mine anyway (my side-pipes are hitting the doors) and the plastics guy sent me a sample of the material. I'm gonna play around with making my own and see how it turns out.
I also pulled up energy suspension's kit and it looks like part of the bushing is used as a locator and interlocks with the other bushing. It appears that a flat donut type bushing would leave slop and allow the body to move.
Your right about the price and machining the material. When you factor in all the cost involved there is no way a machine shop could touch their price including sleeves and washers. Its the old high volume-low price vs. low volume-high price situation.
Anyway thank you for your help, since i need to replace mine anyway (my side-pipes are hitting the doors) and the plastics guy sent me a sample of the material. I'm gonna play around with making my own and see how it turns out.