Non-Aqueous Coolant?

Newbie here with a new engine and new radiator installed -- no coolant in the system yet ('73 350 automatic) Will start it up in the next two weeks. Now would be the time to put in non-aqueous coolant if I am going to do it (claimed boiling point higher than water by ~150*; never needs replacement--so goes the claims; rust inhibitor).

I've heard engine oil debates for years, but not much about this other vital fluid.

Anyone have thoughts or experience with non-aqueous coolant?

73droptop said:

Newbie here with a new engine and new radiator installed -- no coolant in the system yet ('73 350 automatic) Will start it up in the next two weeks. Now would be the time to put in non-aqueous coolant if I am going to do it (claimed boiling point higher than water by ~150*; never needs replacement--so goes the claims; rust inhibitor).

I've heard engine oil debates for years, but not much about this other vital fluid.

Anyone have thoughts or experience with non-aqueous coolant?

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My 1968 Corvette, my 1995 Cadillac Seville, and my 1997 Ford Thunderbird have 100% ethylene glycol coolant (green stuff). There is absolutely, positively no water in the coolant systems of these cars. My 68 has had no water in the coolant since about 1973. Water in the other two cars disappeared soon after I got them. The Cadillac and Thunderbird have gone many, many years with no water in their coolant. My 08 Corvette is 50% dexicool. I want to get the water out of it's cooling system, but I just don't know if I should go for the traditional green stuff or Dexicool. Dexicool is ethylene glycol, but its additives are different. The traditional pure coolant stuff (green stuff) has silicates in it..it can be abrasive to water pump seals, or so I've read, I've had no problem with my cars. Dexicool doesn't have the silicates. Once you get rid of water in your cooling system, you will NEVER HAVE radiator/heater core corrosion problems.
About 6 years ago, I removed my original 68 SB engine to install a ZZ4. The water passage ways of the original 68 engine were RUST FREE..after 35 years.. .they were coated by a thin film of white powder..silicates from the pure ethylene glycol. Also, because of the very high boiling point of ethylene glycol, your cooling system will not pressurize. This greatly reduces the problem of loosing coolant if you have a leak. Because of the lack of pressurization, when I drove my ZZ4 powered 68 for the first time ...I just pushed the coolant hoses on the upper part of the engine by hand and didn't even use hose clamps for my first drive around the block.

There's nothing new about using pure glycol coolants for engines. The WWII Merlin V12 engines in the Spitfire fighter plane pioneered pure ethylene glycol. It was called Prestone in those days. In WWII the P51's all flew with pure ethylene glycol coolant...no water.
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Ethylene glycol is a great coolant, but..it has a sweet taste and is deadly poisonous.It will destroy your liver and kidneys. Propylene glycol is an alternate..it costs more..and like ethylene glycol it has a sweet taste........but it's not poisonous..you can drink the stuff. If you check the food additives listing for candy bars, you can often see propylene glycol as an additive!!! I think some racing agencies..also I think Switzerland, require propylene glycol as a coolant additive and they ban ethylene because of it's poisonous characteristic.
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The problem with ethylene glycol is that if you live in a climate were temperatures go below zero, I've heard the ethylene takes on the consistency of honey, which makes starting the engine difficult. I don't know about this living here is the Democratic Peoples Republic of California since the temps don't go below freezing.

100% EG? That is an interesting approach.

I think this formulation by Evans is different, but I could be wrong. Here is a link to the company site with a Jay Leno video discussing the Evans coolant. It is pricey ($45 to $55 / gal.) but it may avoid problems that make it worth it.

http://www.evanscooling.com/
Your answer means I need to compare the composition of both brands, but I suspect that the Evans brand is a new concoction than the 100% EG.

I'm pretty sure the Evans coolant uses propylene glycol. I called up a local distributor...it's pretty expensive. For get how much ...$50 a gallon?
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My thoughts are that if you have anything made out of metal, you don't want water to be in contact with it. There are some exceptions, I think some alloys of stainless steel are pretty impervious to water.

The worst combination is a cooling system with aluminum and copper components and water in the coolant. This is a recipe for corrosion. Copper and iron, aluminum and iron, etc...these are all dissimilar metals...water in the coolant just creates a battery cell with resulting corrosion. My opinion is that the fluid in the coolant must be a dielectric...pure ethylene or propylene glycol.

When I removed my original 68 SB engine from my car in ~2006, there was no rust in the water chambers. The water chambers were a bright white and rubbing with my finger, I could get some powder. The white was a coating of silicates. My 68 still has the original factory copper heater core.

73droptop said:

100% EG? That is an interesting approach.

I think this formulation by Evans is different, but I could be wrong. Here is a link to the company site with a Jay Leno video discussing the Evans coolant. It is pricey ($45 to $55 / gal.) but it may avoid problems that make it worth it.

http://www.evanscooling.com/
Your answer means I need to compare the composition of both brands, but I suspect that the Evans brand is a new concoction than the 100% EG.

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Maybe just forget about the propylene glycol at $50 a gallon. You can use the $15 a gallon ethylene glycol. You just need to be careful with ethylene since it is so sweet and deadly poisonous. You can put a drop on you finger and taste it...then spit it out...wash you mouth out..and spit again. Actually if you swallow a little drop..no problem..it'll kill off some liver cells, but since the liver is the only organ that rejunevates, you'll be ok.

A big advantage of ethylene glycol or propylene glycol is that your coolant system will never pressurize since the boiling point of the glycols is at 350 degrees F and above. A cooling system leak becomes very benign.. a leak won't create a spew. Also, you can open the radiator cap at any time without worry about a geyser of superheated water steam erupting.

To enjoy the pressure free advantage of the glycols, you have to get rid of all water in the cooling system. Just a few ounces of water in the coolant will tend to pressurize the system. Just keep draining and replacing.

.........Will my engine run hotter?? Actually yes. An almost unnoticeable increase. Not a problem.
Your radiator heat transfer is, I believe, something like the third power of temperature difference. What small amount of engine temperature increase will cause this third power mechanism to radiate much heat. Anyhow, your engine coolant will not boil until you reach extremely high temps. I think my 97 T-Bird runs about 10 degrees warmer than before (hot day,AC on). My 68 with a ZZ4 and a BeCool big block radiator, runs cold.

Glycol - a no-no for Track Time

NASA GCR 13-2

15.18 Engine Coolant
Glycol-based antifreeze and other additives that may cause a slippery condition if spilled on track are prohibited. Other water additives such as Redline Water Wetter may be used.

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Just a thought - you might want to consider as well.

Cheers - Jim

i would like to see more info on the straight antifreeze thing, some say it will jell up. i think getting down to 1 - 3% or less water in the system for evans would be a pain.

68/70Vette said:

I'm pretty sure the Evans coolant uses propylene glycol. I called up a local distributor...it's pretty expensive. For get how much ...$50 a gallon?
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My thoughts are that if you have anything made out of metal, you don't want water to be in contact with it. There are some exceptions, I think some alloys of stainless steel are pretty impervious to water. ....

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Just as long as you don't use Deionized water it didn't work well in our stainless CRAC unit humidifier trays, (and I'll admit that there are a bunch of "stainless" alloys) :stirpot:
http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=22654