Witches hat seals

big2bird

big2bird

Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
5,711
Location
Anaheim, Ca.
Okay, about 3 years ago I installed NOS GM headlight actuators. Now, last night, I noticed quite the RPM change when turning them on. At idle, it runs rough. I know what this means without looking. I believe when I loosened them to install the tranny cooler, it started then.
Just how long should they last, and who has the good seals?
No GENE, no Firebird actuators or sugar scoops. I like the stock look, at least on THIS car, maybe not the next one.:D
 
Most of the seals are OK but what really helps is coating them and the shaft with silicone paste.When the shaft extends it always goes to one side or another as it extends and eventially rubs or tears the seal.
 
Why can't these seals be made so they don't self destruct?

Sounds like a good VetteMOD project!
 
Last TWO pair of seals I put in my headlights in the 4 years they existed....the second set was already failing.....methinks there is NO QC on the ones at the time....hard to believe any better today....

having said that.....Jeff, do the thing right.....put in Chris' system....

vacuum sux.....

:hunter:
 
BBShark said:
Why can't these seals be made so they don't self destruct?

Sounds like a good VetteMOD project!
Click to expand...

Better yet, someone design it with a simple linear actualtor so it doesn't look like ass, clutterd and ahving to chop up those expensive lamp buckets for the killer lights.
 
Twin_Turbo said:
BBShark said:
Why can't these seals be made so they don't self destruct?

Sounds like a good VetteMOD project!
Click to expand...

Better yet, someone design it with a simple linear actualtor so it doesn't look like ass, clutterd and ahving to chop up those expensive lamp buckets for the killer lights.
Click to expand...

Been too long since I have seen Chris' system, but far as I'm concerned ANY operating h/l system is a bunch of crap....

having said that, Chris gave me a 'failed' linear motor with a bad limit switch on it....and so I adapted it to my WSW door....Tim's seen it....

on that last seal set....I did seal them with RTV on both ends, and even had a tie wrap round the narrow nipple over the shaft also RTV sealed...

and they held up better than the others...at least they did not split down cone inline with the shaft....but the rest of the rubber was evil with the wear....

vacuum sux.....not sure how we could ever manage to make them out of decent molds, much less some 'legal' compound that was basically grenade proof....

:rolleyes::crap:
 
big2bird said:
Okay, about 3 years ago I installed NOS GM headlight actuators. Now, last night, I noticed quite the RPM change when turning them on. At idle, it runs rough. I know what this means without looking. I believe when I loosened them to install the tranny cooler, it started then.
Just how long should they last, and who has the good seals?
No GENE, no Firebird actuators or sugar scoops. I like the stock look, at least on THIS car, maybe not the next one.:D
Click to expand...

I'm having the same problem Jeff with my passenger side,now the drivers side no problem and its the original actuator,the passenger i replaced the actuator a year ago and i cannot keep the hat from leaking :hissyfit:
 
18436572 said:
Most of the seals are OK but what really helps is coating them and the shaft with silicone paste.When the shaft extends it always goes to one side or another as it extends and eventually rubs or tears the seal.
Click to expand...
Maybe I should have added.......if you apply the silicone paste this fixes the rubbing issue and the seals dont tear anymore.Problem solved.:beer:
 
18436572 said:
Maybe I should have added.......if you apply the silicone paste this fixes the rubbing issue and the seals dont tear anymore.Problem solved.:beer:
Click to expand...

Are you talking about silcone based dielectric grease or is it something else? Would silicone spray lube do the trick? Getting reading to replace my seals so curious as to what you are actually using.

DC
 
DC3 said:
18436572 said:
Maybe I should have added.......if you apply the silicone paste this fixes the rubbing issue and the seals dont tear anymore.Problem solved.:beer:
Click to expand...

Are you talking about silcone based dielectric grease or is it something else? Would silicone spray lube do the trick? Getting reading to replace my seals so curious as to what you are actually using.

DC
Click to expand...

The factory never used silicone paste or lube....my '68 'Vert still has the original seals. The repros are CRAP...probably from China. I don't even warranty them any more, along with the repro vacuum relays. I called Ecklers about these cheap-assed parts and the say I'm the first one with any problems. Bullshit.
 
DC3 said:
18436572 said:
Maybe I should have added.......if you apply the silicone paste this fixes the rubbing issue and the seals dont tear anymore.Problem solved.:beer:
Click to expand...

Are you talking about silcone based dielectric grease or is it something else? Would silicone spray lube do the trick? Getting reading to replace my seals so curious as to what you are actually using.

DC
Click to expand...

I'm also curious for more detail,i have used a grease on the shaft and it seems to help,but only for a short term.

BigG,they are full of crap,it's amazing that my original is still working fine,but the new one keeps leaking :bonkers:
 
DC3 said:
18436572 said:
Maybe I should have added.......if you apply the silicone paste this fixes the rubbing issue and the seals dont tear anymore.Problem solved.:beer:
Click to expand...

Are you talking about silcone based dielectric grease or is it something else? Would silicone spray lube do the trick? Getting reading to replace my seals so curious as to what you are actually using.

DC
Click to expand...

I use Dow Corning 4X silicone lube.Its a clear grease that seems to melt when you touch it but it seems to stay forever.Adjustment is critical.If the shaft binds and is forced to the side and pinches the seal between the shaft and the edge of the actuator the seal will be cut.The silicone makes the rubber slick enough so the shaft doesnt have a good chance of pinching.If the actuator is not mounted squarely it will cause pinching also. I've bought seals from many vendors and the latest ones seem to be thicker but I've never had one fail once coated with silicone and adjusted properly.
 
big_G said:
DC3 said:
18436572 said:
Maybe I should have added.......if you apply the silicone paste this fixes the rubbing issue and the seals dont tear anymore.Problem solved.:beer:
Click to expand...

Are you talking about silcone based dielectric grease or is it something else? Would silicone spray lube do the trick? Getting reading to replace my seals so curious as to what you are actually using.

DC
Click to expand...

The factory never used silicone paste or lube....my '68 'Vert still has the original seals. The repros are CRAP...probably from China. I don't even warranty them any more, along with the repro vacuum relays. I called Ecklers about these cheap-assed parts and the say I'm the first one with any problems. Bullshit.
Click to expand...

Before I bought these NOS GM units, I bought the Ecklers actuators AND relays. Leaked right out of the box. I sent them all back, and that was 3 years ago. They KNOW allright.
I bought the GM units when I found them, and reconditioned original relays.
 
mrvette said:
Last TWO pair of seals I put in my headlights in the 4 years they existed....the second set was already failing.....methinks there is NO QC on the ones at the time....hard to believe any better today....

having said that.....Jeff, do the thing right.....put in Chris' system....

vacuum sux.....

:hunter:
Click to expand...

As I said before, NO. Someone just needs to make decent ones. Maybe Hypalon, Viton, Silicone, or.............
 
18436572 said:
Most of the seals are OK but what really helps is coating them and the shaft with silicone paste.
Click to expand...

I coated the shafts with DOT 5 brake fluid, also the rubber boots and seals. That stuff will stay; everytime it rains, I still see spots on the driveway when I spilled it 3 years ago.
 
big2bird said:
mrvette said:
Last TWO pair of seals I put in my headlights in the 4 years they existed....the second set was already failing.....methinks there is NO QC on the ones at the time....hard to believe any better today....

having said that.....Jeff, do the thing right.....put in Chris' system....

vacuum sux.....

:hunter:
Click to expand...

As I said before, NO. Someone just needs to make decent ones. Maybe Hypalon, Viton, Silicone, or.............
Click to expand...



U want to take on the project?? have at it, make a fortune....probably have to charge 50 bux each by time it's done....bet odds it's a EPA type crap thing is why they not done anymore....can't be because someone just got rid of the rubber engineering file, and everyone forgot what compound to produce something so simple out of....

anyway, the first set on my car some 16 years ago...lasted about a year, then I found they split along the output shaft...so the second set went on without the metal retaining rings around the base, and I used RTV sealer on the shaft where the tip slid into the groove, I can't see any grease as ever necessary as the hat collapses with the shaft, it does not slide along the shaft, so to 'stop' the hat from splitting, I used a baby tie wrap on the thing, never gave a seconds trouble untill the wreck that is....some 4 years later....the hat on the WSW canister is still fine today....unused setting on a shelf....
 
mrvette said:
I can't see any grease as ever necessary as the hat collapses with the shaft, it does not slide along the shaft
Click to expand...
Thats what I believe is part of the problem--"trying to restrict the movement of the boot".The boot is only needed to seal-let it do the slippery slide-it doesnt need to remain in the slot on the shaft-let the small ID end move while the larger end remains fixed.

Maybe a new design would be a much shorter witches hat with the same ID and OD.Do away with the some of the bellows effect.If you polished the shaft and allowed the small ID to slide on the shaft it might work.
 
I'll try the silicone gease trick. I remember using the Dow Silicone for sealing bell jars for vacuum in college. Anything to help.
 
I know the OEM design had the hat tips with like a O ring cast in the shape, toward the inside, that O ring/ridge slipped over/into a slot-indentation on the shaft and was supposed to stay there, mine didn't, and split....so the second set got a baby tie wrap, and RTV around the base with no circlip as the tabs were broken off by then....they lasted good untill the damn deer said otherwise....

:surrender:
 
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