454 build up journal.

[Twin_Turbo]

That's too inaccurate. Get a strip of steel, drill 2 holes for the head bolt holes and drill and tap another somewhere in the center for a bolt. Then thread in the bolt with a nut on it, turn the bolt down and then the nut to lock the bolt in place. That will do it. Best to make it so that the center bolt engages on the flat machined part of the piston for accuracy.

 

[BlackRat]

Wade, I maybe would put another piece of metal under that wrench so you get a wider reading between stops there.....dunno if it makes it easier or not when measuring to the center....get too small a distance there to divide, and you maybe down to calipers....eh, not so bad...

what gets me is using the degree wheel....I got one, but it confuses hell outta me, really...best of luck to you....

:sos::stirpot::fishing::thumbs:

Don't feel bad. The whole process confuses me. I am hoping when my kit gets here I can study the instructions several times and it will make more sense.

:thumbs:

 

[BlackRat]

That's too inaccurate. Get a strip of steel, drill 2 holes for the head bolt holes and drill and tap another somewhere in the center for a bolt. Then thread in the bolt with a nut on it, turn the bolt down and then the nut to lock the bolt in place. That will do it. Best to make it so that the center bolt engages on the flat machined part of the piston for accuracy.

Ok so where do I adjust the bolt to too where it strikes the piston? When the piston is at the very top of the bore? Or just before it gets to the top so it hits and stops the crank from turning?

Thanks
Wade

 

[Twin_Turbo]

somewhere down the bore, doesn't matter as long as the contact height remains the same. You want to have 2 reference positions on both sides of the stroke so you can determine TDC halfway between them.

 

[BlackRat]

Hey Twin Turbo I fabbed this up last night. I did not put the bolt in the middle as the machined flat on the dome hit squarely on the stell bar with no flex.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

That will work just fine. Make sure the strip does not bend, the piston has to just touch it.

 

[BlackRat]

That will work just fine. Make sure the strip does not bend, the piston has to just touch it.

Cool thanks. I verified that there was no flex last night. That peice of steel is pretty rigid. I also think I am begining to understand what the stop is for. It is to determine true TDC correct? Keep adjusting the pointer till the forward turn of the crank and the backwards turn of the crank hits in the same point correct?

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Yes, that's exactly what it's for and how it's done. You can do it with a dial gauge also but as the piston sweeps past TDS there's a couple of degrees where the dial will move hardly at all. The positive stop method is dead on accurate as it takes a measurement down the bore at TDC.

 

[BlackRat]

Ok here we go. Degree kit came today. Unfortunately it looks like I bought the wrong one. This one checks only with heads on the motor. I am assuming that we can still do this I just have to put a head on and mock it up correct?

I went ahead and found TDC and it was right on dot to dot. I roughly lined up the wheel on the crank so that the pointer was at 0 TDC and dots were lined up cam and crank. I Rotated the motor clockwise till it hit the stop and got 21*BTDC rotated it back till it came back around and hit the stop and it was at 25*ATDC. I split the difference and set the wheel at 23* with the pointer. Removed the stop and rotated the motor and it hit dead on "0" with the dots lined up. Sound right?


Wade

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Why does it only check with heads on the motor? You have a degree wheel, so bolt it up and use something to make a pointer and fix the pointer to the engine using the front motor mounts or water pump bolt holes. It really does not matter, it's just a reference point. There's no fixed way to do it. Just set the pointer, take the 2 near TDC stop measurements, set the crank halfway and re-zero the wheel. Now you have perfect TDC and a wheel set to perfect TDC with the pointer at the location YOU chose. Just make sure your pointer doesn't bend or move.

 

[BlackRat]

Why does it only check with heads on the motor? You have a fegree wheel, so bolt iy up and use something to make a pointer and fix the pointer to the engine using the front motor mounts or water pump bolt holes. It really does not matter, it's just a reference point. There's no fixed way to do it. Just set the pointer, take the 2 near TDC stop measurements, set the crank halfway and re-zero the wheel. Now you have perfect TDC and a wheel set to perfect TDC with the pointer at the location YOU chose. Just make sure your pointer doesn't bend or move.

No sorry that might not have been clear. The kit I bought does not have a magnetic base it has a shaft that screws into the Valve cover bolt hole to hold the dial indicator base. I found TDC just fine I was just telling you what my numbers were. I bolted the pointer to the water pump hole and then roughly set the degree wheel on the crank to TDC. I then rotated clockwise till the piston hit the stop. That was at 21* BTDC. I then rotated it counter clockwise till it went down and came back up and it hit at 25* ATDC giving me a 4* difference. I took half of that and subtracted it from 25. 25-2 = 23. I rotated the degree wheel so the pointer was at 23*. Removed the piston stop and rotated the crank till it was at TDC and the pointer hit dead on "0". I looked at the dots on the crank and the cam and they were lined up so I have found true TDC correct?

I just bolted a head on without the gasket and set an intake and exhaust rocker, rod and lifter and set the lash per the cam card. I am ready to start verifying #'s against the card right?

Thanks
Wade

 

[BlackRat]

Here is an update of what I have done although I don't trust my #'s. I checked the cam based on the instruction with the degree kit and I came up with a centerline of 116* on the intake. Here is what I did. per the directions.

This was done with the head on and no head gasket using the #1 I&E.

1. Place dial indicator on the Int retainer and turn crank clockwise until the valve is fully open.
2. Set the dial gauge to 0.
3. Rotate the crank counter clockwise to .10.
4. Rotate Clockwise to .05 and read the wheel. 85*
5. Continue rotating clockwise till it past 0 and got back to .05 and read the wheel. 147*
6. 85 + 147 = 232\2 = 116

Supposedly according to the proform directions this is my intake center line but Lobe Center was ground on 108 according to card. I assume I am doing something wrong. I read on my cam card that timing is checked at .020 is that the difference? Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks
Wade

 

[BlackRat]

Degreeing the cam. Oh the confusion!!!!!!:willy: Jim (427HotRod) is truly a patient, patient man!!!! Just realized what I was doing wrong.....:lol:

:thumbs:
Wade

 

[BlackRat]

I DEGREED MY FIRST CAM!!!!!!!!!

With a lot of help from Jim (427HotRod) that is.....:thumbs:

The hardest part was understanding the dial.

The cam out of the box checked at 108.5 which was right where it was ground at with a 108 LSA. Per Jim's advice I installed it 4* advanced. After advancing it and checking it again it came out to be 105.5 and good to go!!!!:thumbs:

Next step is piston to valve clearence. and then everything goes back together!!!!!:thumbs:
Wade

 

[BlackRat]

Did the PVC last night and everything came out fine. Sorry these pics weren't great. The funky color of green is what you get when you steal your daughters playdoh after she has combined 4 different colors.....

I would have finished the top end last night but could not find my head locating dowls. Going to NAPA at lunch to get some. Then this evening I am installing the heads, removing the inner valve springs and installing lifters, pr's and rockers.

This is based on .629/.617 lift

 

[JAKE]

That's too inaccurate. Get a strip of steel, drill 2 holes for the head bolt holes and drill and tap another somewhere in the center for a bolt. Then thread in the bolt with a nut on it, turn the bolt down and then the nut to lock the bolt in place. That will do it. Best to make it so that the center bolt engages on the flat machined part of the piston for accuracy.

Yep, without the specific tool, that's how I do it.

Jake

 

[JAKE]

Yes, that's exactly what it's for and how it's done. You can do it with a dial gauge also but as the piston sweeps past TDS there's a couple of degrees where the dial will move hardly at all. The positive stop method is dead on accurate as it takes a measurement down the bore at TDC.

Absolutely correct. The Positive Stop Method eliminates the dwell time at TDC which contributes to error.

Remember, finding Absolute TDC is the most critical part since any error there will effect all the readings thereafter.

Jake

 

[JAKE]

Not sure if you did this but here's what I do.

I do a piston to valve check with only the #1 piston installed. If the clearance turns out to be too close, I would only have to pull one piston instead of 8 to have the valve reliefs deepened. Depending on how much would be called for, the assembly may need to be re-balanced or, in a couple cases, new pistons used. New pistons would be called for if the cut would have to be too deep for safety.

I fabricate round patches of PlayDough (yep, I use that too) and place them across the valve reliefs on the #1 piston. Before placing them on the piston, I coat them on both sides with engine oil to prevent the dough from sticking to the valves/piston.

I install the head gasket I'm going to use and the driver's side head that I'm going to run. I torque down all the head bolts. Some guys only install several bolts, but I torque them all just to be sure I'm getting full gasket compression, especially when running a high-lift cam or high ratio rocker arms, like 1.7/1.8s.

I install the #1 intake and exhaust lifters, pushrods and rocker arms. For a mechanical cam I set the valve lash; for hydraulic I set the preload - usually 1/2 turn from zero lash. I use the EO/IC method.

I then slowly manually turn the crank two complete revolutions while feeling for any sign of interference or binding. Binding could indicate the valve head is actually touching the piston.

I then remove the rocker arms, pushrods and cylinder head.

I carefully remove the depressed PlayDough and, using a very sharp razor blade, I slice through it. I look for the thinnest part and measure it's thickness. In the past I've used a digital caliper OR even stacked feeler gauges, depending on where I'm working and what's available at the time.

I look for .100 on the intake dough and .120 on the exhaust dough. That's the amount of clearance there'll be between the intake valve and the piston and the exhaust valve and the piston. Others may prefer different clearances though. To me, much below .100 is a crap shoot if the engine over-revs.

Some builders may use a different method but I prefer Slice and measure.

Jake

 

[JAKE]

On thing I forgot to mention: Most of the valve train gurus, like CompCams and Crane, recommend that when checking piston to valve clearance, use a mechanical lifter, NOT a hydraulic lifter.

Seems they feel a hydraulic lifter plunger will depress enough - due to valve spring pressure - to give a clearance error.

BTW, I applaud you for even taking the time to check valve to piston clearance. Most don't even give it a second thought, much less actually check it.

Jake

 

[BlackRat]

On thing I forgot to mention: Most of the valve train gurus, like CompCams and Crane, recommend that when checking piston to valve clearance, use a mechanical lifter, NOT a hydraulic lifter.

Seems they feel a hydraulic lifter plunger will depress enough - due to valve spring pressure - to give a clearance error.

BTW, I applaud you for even taking the time to check valve to piston clearance. Most don't even give it a second thought, much less actually check it.

Jake

Thanks Jake! I am usinig a solid cam and when I checked everything I used the solid lifters just as you mentioned. My process varied a little as I actually looked at worst case scenario. I installed the head without the head gasket whick compressed would be .039 more clearence then what I measured. With the head installed without the gasket I installed the #1 valve train components and rotated the motor through a complete cycle. Removed the head and cut a cross section of the play doh and I had plenty of clearence. This is actually the second cam for this motor. I documented all the clearence #'s from the first cam I used and pretty much knew I was ok but I wanted to make sure I documented these #'s as well just in case I switch again.

Now I just need that replacement head bolt/:crylol:

Thanks for all the input!

Wade