Anybody ID This Chassis?

That's an amazing build.

Now this brings brings me to my next question. What class would this car race in and is it some kind of C3 vintage racer "tribute" car? Like you said, there isn't too much of the original car left.
 
BBShark said:
That's an amazing build.

Now this brings brings me to my next question. What class would this car race in and is it some kind of C3 vintage racer "tribute" car? Like you said, there isn't too much of the original car left.
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It would have to race against all the other cars with big brakes, slicks & wings in exhibition...like the GTP cars where it wouldn`t be competitive. Unless out in CA they have what would be considered an IMSA class where it would have to race against the 911 based IMSA 934 Porsche twin turbo...where it probably wouldn`t be competitive...
 
All those greenwood customer cars (widebodies with modified stock and full tube frames) all ran IMSA and SCCA. They ALL had the same Kinsler crossram, some had it with constant flow and other with lucas times injection.

There are 12 customer chassis and only 2 tube frames. The JLP car is tube chassis #2.
 
The Tubeframe Cars
by John Greenwood

We introduced the "winged thing" at Brainerd, MN in 1977. This was our first tube frame race car that we developed over the winter of 1976 and served as the inspiration for the Turbo street car. The "Winged Thing" was an all-aluminum big block with a real working wing and used an automatic transmission. The tube frame car would have done well at its introduction except that one of the tires went down on the first corner and we had some trouble in the pits. We were done. This is the same style of car that Pickett drove through 1978 and 1979, however. The Turbo style street car was the first one where we offered the vented wheel wells, real wing and 5-link rear suspension. It was going to be another 8 years before GM came up to that level!

The full tubeframe cars like the one run by Greg Pickett and John Paul Sr. were probably the best Corvettes up to that point in time. I guess there is an open question as to whether they could be called street-derivatives now that the frame wasn't a factory frame but that was the way that everyone was going at that time, so you just went with it. In effect, we were getting into a whole new generation of cars that ran from 1977 or 1978 through to the present, really. It was in this time period that we had a lot of help from Bob Riley. He had worked with Protofab for a long time. He had his hand on all those Protofab cars that Chevy brought out of Canada. He also did a full composite car that raced against the Jaguars for a while -- the Intrepid. Bob worked on both the full-frame/coil-over and the tubeframe cars. He was one of the few engineering people who could get down to practical matters in a short period of time.
 
BBShark said:
That's an amazing build.

Now this brings brings me to my next question. What class would this car race in and is it some kind of C3 vintage racer "tribute" car? Like you said, there isn't too much of the original car left.
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In the South East Region, it would run in SPO, Super Production Open ,, catch all class. Which are mostly big inch Gt1 cars, no CI limit.
 
BBShark said:
Surely that car was not outfitted as shown (r&p, suspension) when built?
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Yes it would. The black & white frame pics are of tubeframe 1 & 2.

Front custom fabricated adjustable double a arm, what looks like a cup type spindle (5 on 5?)
tube2framefront.jpg

Rear, custom fabricated upright w/ custom adjustable double a arms.
tube2frontbrake.jpg

Remember, the r&p was already being used on production cars back then, the e type had it in 61!!
 
I am aware that r&p was available at the time. I was not aware that you could change everything on a C3 and still be legal. I didn't follow sports car racing after Trans Am and Can Am were finished and I tired of seeing the parade of Porsche's beating everything. I guess they really tried to help C3's become competitive by allowing them to completely replace the car:idea:
 
BBShark said:
I am aware that r&p was available at the time. I was not aware that you could change everything on a C3 and still be legal. I didn't follow sports car racing after Trans Am and Can Am were finished and I tired of seeing the parade of Porsche's beating everything. I guess they really tried to help C3's become competitive by allowing them to completely replace the car:idea:
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In IMSA there were very few real rules, SCCA was another story. I`m not exactly sure when "tube frame" cars were first allowed in the Trans-Am series but it wasn`t until 81-82 that they were allowed in club (amateur) racing. Once they were the production classes were replaced with the GT- classes. A/P was already gone and B/P became GT-1.
redvetracr
 
redvetracr said:
In IMSA there were very few real rules, SCCA was another story. I`m not exactly sure when "tube frame" cars were first allowed in the Trans-Am series but it wasn`t until 81-82 that they were allowed in club (amateur) racing. Once they were the production classes were replaced with the GT- classes. A/P was already gone and B/P became GT-1.
redvetracr
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Now I remember why I quit following sports cars. It was way to confusing! I got back into it in the mid 80's because I knew someone that was working with Al Holbert. The Porsche, Corvette and Mazda GTP program were going strong. The cars were so sophisticated I couldn't begin to comprehend the rules so I didn't even think about them. Too bad no one could muster any competition for the Porsches.:suicide:
 
In GT1 you must have a standard production block and heads, unless the heads are on the approved list.

The induction would have to be a 4 barrel. Fuel Injection was prohibited on GT1 cars 1/1/94 IRS is ok as long as the car came factory with one. You can replace it with a live axle. But, cant add IRS to a car that came factory with a live axle.

Steering is open, so R&P is ok.

The weight factor is why so many GT1 cars are running the small 311 engine.
You can cut your weight to 2680lb. Weight penalty for more CI's up to a 366ci.


Wheel base for the c3 must be 98" C4 96" and the 97 up 104.5

I always found this interesting, SCCA GCR 9.1.2 The Club may alter or adjust the specifications and require, permit or restrict certain specific components to equate competitive potential... so if you win to much, be ready for a rule change,,,lol.. They have been doing that to Tom Patton on his Sunbean Tiger for years, he's down to running a two barrel.
 
racervette69 said:
In GT1 you must have a standard production block and heads, unless the heads are on the approved list.

The induction would have to be a 4 barrel. Fuel Injection was prohibited on GT1 cars 1/1/94 IRS is ok as long as the car came factory with one. You can replace it with a live axle. But, cant add IRS to a car that came factory with a live axle.

Steering is open, so R&P is ok.

The weight factor is why so many GT1 cars are running the small 311 engine.
You can cut your weight to 2680lb. Weight penalty for more CI's up to a 366ci.


Wheel base for the c3 must be 98" C4 96" and the 97 up 104.5

I always found this interesting, SCCA GCR 9.1.2 The Club may alter or adjust the specifications and require, permit or restrict certain specific components to equate competitive potential... so if you win to much, be ready for a rule change,,,lol.. They have been doing that to Tom Patton on his Sunbean Tiger for years, he's down to running a two barrel.
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"production block & heads" except the guy from FL with the Jag (Simms) is running a Ford motor (ala Paul Gentilozzi) and GT-1 national champ Tony Ave is running a $50K SB-2....not exactly "production", but there again it`s the SCCA not much they do is rational.
 
redvetracr said:
"production block & heads" except the guy from FL with the Jag (Simms) is running a Ford motor (ala Paul Gentilozzi) and GT-1 national champ Tony Ave is running a $50K SB-2....not exactly "production", but there again it`s the SCCA not much they do is rational.
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yes,, that's one of the footnotes,, General Motors,, SB-2 permitted,,, Ford Motorsports SVO iline valve or canted valve,,, this is the kicker,,, or specified alternate engine block shall be used. Rational,,I think not..... SCCA, love,, hate relationship..

they do carry a weight penalty for running those engines or a non production transmission.

You got to enjoy how creative most of these cars and rules are..
 
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Hi, This is a Greenwood Chassis the body work was a later design of the "batmobile" done in 1977> the car ended up to the John Pauls Sn. and Jr.was painted a light blue wore the #18 as did their later Porsche 935s'.
 
Yellow73SB said:
Heres the car I was talking about

http://www.ronsusser.com/vehicles.asp?c=da&id=581
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that green car is owned by George Krass from the Chicago area, it NEVER raced SCCA with that body or with that motor...NEVER as they were never SCCA legal, and still aren`t. It`s true that he won the Brian Redmond int. Challenge but was instantly disqualified, they don`t mention that part......he was on slicks when EVERYONE else was on treaded tires.....that bodywork and motor are also NOT group-6 vintage legal and as I remember were not part of the car when he won.
redvetracr
 
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