saudivette
Clueless In Sandland
Thanks mate. Now that the bumper's done, I need to start hacking into my front guards and get the egg crate louvers grafted in there :thumbs:
Body work help...
- Thread starter saudivette
- Start date
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
Aint' that funny, that silly cut out....from Wade to Wayne......scrap on the back lot to looking beautiful, even IF i'ts just a mold....
:crap: can I get you to do MY car????
:friends:
kwplot34
Heart Attack
Dang Wayne,that looks awesome,you did a hell of a job with that project,cant wait to see it installed and painted.
Very nice :thumbs:
Very nice :thumbs:
saudivette
Clueless In Sandland
Before I bolt my new bumper on, should I put exhaust cutouts in it? Here's a photochop of what it would look like...
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
Before I bolt my new bumper on, should I put exhaust cutouts in it? Here's a photochop of what it would look like...
NOT BAD for a guy out in BFE....with nothing around but a computer....
is that the original piece I sent?? or is it a casting...somehow off it???
U do such NICE work,....I got this mess on my hands...
:devil::clobbered:
saudivette
Clueless In Sandland
The ones by the tag pocket are (going to be) backup lamps. The tail lights are from http://www.superbrightleds.com/truck_lights.htm.
Anyway, I've had a change of heart - someone kindly pointed out that I don't need exhaust cutouts with side pipes!
No, I took a mould off the piece you sent me Gene - scroll back and read through this thread again mate, got some pics there.
Oh, what's BFE?
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
Bum Fuck Egypt.....another term for boonies, way out in the country, desert, plains...LOST in other words.....old VERY old slang....
OH, I forgot, that's right, I remember now...that is nice work man,
you got mucho more patience than I have...
:beer:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
saudivette
Clueless In Sandland
SMYDA and other body experts...
With John's above statement in mind, I went out this afternoon to see how much of an area I'd need to prime to be able to use body filler. While poking around, I remembered chipping the paint when I cut along the fender. You can see the chips here:
Anyway, I flicked at the edge of the paint chip, and a whole lot more looked "loose" so I grabbed a scraper and started lifting it off. I'm not real concerned as it was going in for paint at some stage anyway but after only a few minutes, I had achieved this:
The white colour looks like gel coat and underneath it is just fiberglass. If that's the original SMC that I can see, is that normal for factory paint to practically fall off?
OR...
Is it an aftermarket panel? GRP, FRP, whatever? Thinking that it might be a replacement panel, I dug out the piece I cut out of the front fender and took some pics of the "inside" of the panel:
Now my question for the body experts. Does that look like SMC or plain old fiberglass?
With John's above statement in mind, I went out this afternoon to see how much of an area I'd need to prime to be able to use body filler. While poking around, I remembered chipping the paint when I cut along the fender. You can see the chips here:
Anyway, I flicked at the edge of the paint chip, and a whole lot more looked "loose" so I grabbed a scraper and started lifting it off. I'm not real concerned as it was going in for paint at some stage anyway but after only a few minutes, I had achieved this:
The white colour looks like gel coat and underneath it is just fiberglass. If that's the original SMC that I can see, is that normal for factory paint to practically fall off?
OR...
Is it an aftermarket panel? GRP, FRP, whatever? Thinking that it might be a replacement panel, I dug out the piece I cut out of the front fender and took some pics of the "inside" of the panel:
Now my question for the body experts. Does that look like SMC or plain old fiberglass?
saudivette
Clueless In Sandland
So not SMC?
MYBAD79
Moderator
Looks like fiberglass to me.... not "correct" for your '82 prrtt:
prrtt:
saudivette
Clueless In Sandland
Thanks guys. Sorry to sound like a thicky but until I started messing with the body, I'd never heard of SMC, let alone know what it looked like.
I haven't looked yet but I think the other fender is the same although the underside of the hood looks different, so maybe it's actually SMC???
Oh well, normal fiberglass fenders will be a bit easier to finish off with the body filler being compatible to both halves of my modification :lol:
I haven't looked yet but I think the other fender is the same although the underside of the hood looks different, so maybe it's actually SMC???
Oh well, normal fiberglass fenders will be a bit easier to finish off with the body filler being compatible to both halves of my modification :lol:
saudivette
Clueless In Sandland
I had a look at the driver's side front fender this afternoon. I didn't actually remove any paint but from what I can see of the inside of the fender, it looks to be the same as the passenger side. I carried on stripping the paint off the passenger fender and was looking at the rear edge where it meets the door and saw a flaky edge on the door paint - had a poke at it and...
It only took minutes to strip all that paint off. Once I got a scraper under it, it basically fell away. There's a couple of shiny areas where you see the shit on the ground reflected in it! The only areas the paint seems to be stuck ok is where ot looks like red oxide primer underneath. I've had to use a razor blade on those bits - got a few nicks but better than having all that shit on the car.
Anyway, I haven't looked hard at the door but is it safe to assume that it's not SMC either?
I examined the piece I cut out of the hood and I assume it is SMC. I scraped some of the paint away here:
Underside:
Is it SMC?
It only took minutes to strip all that paint off. Once I got a scraper under it, it basically fell away. There's a couple of shiny areas where you see the shit on the ground reflected in it! The only areas the paint seems to be stuck ok is where ot looks like red oxide primer underneath. I've had to use a razor blade on those bits - got a few nicks but better than having all that shit on the car.
Anyway, I haven't looked hard at the door but is it safe to assume that it's not SMC either?
I examined the piece I cut out of the hood and I assume it is SMC. I scraped some of the paint away here:
Underside:
Is it SMC?
Twin_Turbo
Der Maulwurf
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 7,579
Yes, your 82 has the later style panels what the C4s have too. It's a lot more resin and less fibers. There's a lot of confusion with SMC and what not, if you classify the early C3 stuff a SMC, this is not it. This is the same stuff as on the C4s. Your hood and doors are made from that. Nothing except epoxy will stick to it. I did a test many moons ago, the regular stuff just peels off.
saudivette
Clueless In Sandland
So the door and fender are original? I assume I need to prime the whole lot with epoxy?
One question though, if they're original panels, why did the paint peel off so easy?
One question though, if they're original panels, why did the paint peel off so easy?
MYBAD79
Moderator
Epoxy primer is very good stuff, PPG DP epoxy is one of the best but a little expensive...
I think Marck meant epoxy resin instead of polyester, standard Bondo type resin will not stick to SMC.
I think Marck meant epoxy resin instead of polyester, standard Bondo type resin will not stick to SMC.
saudivette
Clueless In Sandland
Someone suggested using PPG DP primer to prime over the areas I've modified before using the body filler - the fenders and hood where I've grafted fiberglass onto the SMC. The filler I'm using is PPG A661: P.E. Stopper is a conventional 2 component polyester filler that offers quick drying and easy clog-free sanding. P.E. Stopper is suitable for use over bare steel, fibreglass, GRP and other primed or painted surfaces.
From that, I assume I'll still have to squirt some of the epoxy primer over my repair areas before I lay anf of that filler on?
Do I have to go over all the exposed white surface with epoxy primer or is my PPG 2K stuff ok?
Last edited:
I just mix my own filler from epoxy or build it up enough not to need any.
A lot of people get hung up on this SMC stuff.
All corvettes, except I think the first experimental display car (hand laid up) had panels made by press moulding. In the C2 era, the 2 halves were sprayed with release agent, then mat was laid in the mold, then closed and resin injected and heated to cure.
To speed up the cycling time and produce a more uniform panel, SMC (Sheet Molded Compound) was used, a few panels in the late C2's but almost exclusively in C3's and later. the chopped glass strands and resin and release agent (in the case of C3s) was manufactured between paper layers (sort of a soft clay like texture) and placed in the mold and press formed the same as the earlier panels. It was quicker, better quality and cheaper. The resin compounds and glass ratios were changed almost every year due to advances in composite chemistry.
Fast forward to 2003, the Dodge Viper was the first car to use carbon fiber that is SMC (which means it is also press molded) in the windshield frame and door supports and front fender mountings. The Viper used a modified vinyl ester matrix as a resin. Don't know what the new Corvettes use. It's really a moot point because epoxy is the best to use, period. BTW there are over 2800 variations of epoxy commercially available and more can still be specially formulated for a particular use.
General Dynamics uses SMC of carbon fiber and epoxy resin to make guideing tubes for aircraft born missles. There is NO release agent mixed into the resin, the mold halves are sprayed with PTFE for release.
So SMC doesn't mean that release agent is automatically in the mix.
Here are a couple of pics of a inner fender that is "press molded" and just happens to be "SMC" too. Note it is smooth on both sides. I scuff sanded them with 220 to prep for paint, easier off the car than installed.
Ones Side
Other Side
They are both very smooth on each side.
Compare that with your fender backside.
If you have any fiberglass boats in Sandland you can match your finish. Not press molded. Compare with the fingernail test.
To make this even more boring, a self proclaimed vette expert saw my DD at a store one day, and after saying "nice car" nit picked it apart for the duration of his lecture. He saw the inner fender that someone had cut out to get at the ac/heater box and told me that was a costly major repair that took a real expert like his buddy to replace the inner fender. I told him that the seller had given me the pieces. He said it was impossible to repair that way. :huh:
I just smiled and said Oh.
Here is the damage
Here are the pieces stuck on with a/c duct foil tape (the heavy stuff, not Homey Depot junk). The engine side is not taper ground, so as to make a flush fit.
The wheel side has all the mating joints ground with 30 grit to a next to nothing taper.
The foil tape holds these pieces well enough that I could mount the recovery bottle back in it's place and drive at highway speeds with no fear of it coming loose. The more layers you add the stronger it becomes. You must use a squeegee to stick it down well.
Once the wheel side is galssed and built up enough to be flush after sanding, then the other side will be "v" ground with the 30 untill touching the new glass in the center of the grind and built up to be flush. There should be no need for any kind of filler. Just grinding and sanding carefully from 80to about 220 and then some black paint.
Hope you can use the foil tape trick sometime, saves a lot of fussing around.
BTW, I really hate glass work, done too much of it and am over it.
SMC
A lot of people get hung up on this SMC stuff.
All corvettes, except I think the first experimental display car (hand laid up) had panels made by press moulding. In the C2 era, the 2 halves were sprayed with release agent, then mat was laid in the mold, then closed and resin injected and heated to cure.
To speed up the cycling time and produce a more uniform panel, SMC (Sheet Molded Compound) was used, a few panels in the late C2's but almost exclusively in C3's and later. the chopped glass strands and resin and release agent (in the case of C3s) was manufactured between paper layers (sort of a soft clay like texture) and placed in the mold and press formed the same as the earlier panels. It was quicker, better quality and cheaper. The resin compounds and glass ratios were changed almost every year due to advances in composite chemistry.
Fast forward to 2003, the Dodge Viper was the first car to use carbon fiber that is SMC (which means it is also press molded) in the windshield frame and door supports and front fender mountings. The Viper used a modified vinyl ester matrix as a resin. Don't know what the new Corvettes use. It's really a moot point because epoxy is the best to use, period. BTW there are over 2800 variations of epoxy commercially available and more can still be specially formulated for a particular use.
General Dynamics uses SMC of carbon fiber and epoxy resin to make guideing tubes for aircraft born missles. There is NO release agent mixed into the resin, the mold halves are sprayed with PTFE for release.
So SMC doesn't mean that release agent is automatically in the mix.
Here are a couple of pics of a inner fender that is "press molded" and just happens to be "SMC" too. Note it is smooth on both sides. I scuff sanded them with 220 to prep for paint, easier off the car than installed.
Ones Side
Other Side
They are both very smooth on each side.
Compare that with your fender backside.
If you have any fiberglass boats in Sandland you can match your finish. Not press molded. Compare with the fingernail test.
To make this even more boring, a self proclaimed vette expert saw my DD at a store one day, and after saying "nice car" nit picked it apart for the duration of his lecture. He saw the inner fender that someone had cut out to get at the ac/heater box and told me that was a costly major repair that took a real expert like his buddy to replace the inner fender. I told him that the seller had given me the pieces. He said it was impossible to repair that way. :huh:
I just smiled and said Oh.
Here is the damage
Here are the pieces stuck on with a/c duct foil tape (the heavy stuff, not Homey Depot junk). The engine side is not taper ground, so as to make a flush fit.
The wheel side has all the mating joints ground with 30 grit to a next to nothing taper.
The foil tape holds these pieces well enough that I could mount the recovery bottle back in it's place and drive at highway speeds with no fear of it coming loose. The more layers you add the stronger it becomes. You must use a squeegee to stick it down well.
Once the wheel side is galssed and built up enough to be flush after sanding, then the other side will be "v" ground with the 30 untill touching the new glass in the center of the grind and built up to be flush. There should be no need for any kind of filler. Just grinding and sanding carefully from 80to about 220 and then some black paint.
Hope you can use the foil tape trick sometime, saves a lot of fussing around.
BTW, I really hate glass work, done too much of it and am over it.
SMC