C3 Front suspension

mrvette said:
SuperBuickGuy said:
mrvette said:
redvetracr said:
I`m curious, how does anyone know which taller Howe ball joints are the best to use, they make a few different lengths?
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That I curious about is what it would take for a machine shop to make a stem extender?? screw the joint into a tapered rod assy, use LOCKtite Red on the threads, and have the new rod fit into the control arm?? how simple is THAT?....NO? why not??:evil:
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the extended, tested, ball joints are $85.00 each - so 170 a pair.... automotive machinists are not easy to come by up here, so I'd expect to be charged at least that to have some machined out (here's where it'd be great to have someone volunteer to teach me how to do inside taper joints on my enco lathe :huh:
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It took me a while with some leads from other shops, but I finally located a shop here that had the correct taper tools to make a adapter for my rack to the stock tie rod ends....and of course adapted/fit perfectly, I would much rather have stock tie rod ends than the aftermarket heim joints most guys use....street durability and so to be easy greased....

and too boot I didn't have to buy/wait for heim joints...

:thumbs:
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the circle track guys (roundy-round guys) have access to a taper tool that works slick for modifying spindles and tie rod ends to the right angle
 
Twin_Turbo said:
Get the tallest one. It moves the angle of the upper arm so that it moves the IC from the undersirable outboard to an inboard position. Roll center will be above ground isntead of below, camber will gain negative. The stock geometry does not.

If you have pics off Klutts car, I'm willig to bet they either modified the spindle or moved the upper arm cross shaft a little lower.
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That's a good start to an answer, thank you. Do you know what the stock angle is and what they move it to, and (if applicable) what is optimal? Further - wouldn't lowering the car do the same thing? what about any of the tubular arms? Is this where swapping in Camaro arms would be advantageous? is that answer because the spindle height is taller?
 
This was the draw back of the SPC arms, they don't hit the factory bump stop.

spc1.jpg

So you need to add some kind of travel limiter.

spc3.jpg

But, it made the wheel alignment fairly easy with the adjustable upper arms.
 
I've tried that style of arm, and didn't find them robust enough for long-term street use. Mine wore where the arms attached to the ball joint holder.
 
I was under the impression that you can get a jacking effect if the upper CA is too angled up... IE: too tall of a balljoint
 
vette427sbc said:
I was under the impression that you can get a jacking effect if the upper CA is too angled up... IE: too tall of a balljoint
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Without a limiter, only one arm hits the frame. The Camaro forums showed they have the same problem/solution.
 
The easiest way to make a droop limiter without resorting to straps is to use a SHORTER extended length shock.
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
rtj said:
vette427sbc said:
I was under the impression that you can get a jacking effect if the upper CA is too angled up... IE: too tall of a balljoint
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Without a limiter, only one arm hits the frame. The Camaro forums showed they have the same problem/solution.
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color me confused, but I think you're both talking about two different things....
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I think the thread was on CF saying. 0.5 to 1.0 inches. It's not too critical to me, this is just a fun car to mess around with.
 
At the risk of getting flamed (although less likely here than elsewhere), my suggestion would be to save all the money you're planning on spending on a c3 and buy a decent, used Miata or something if you're plan is autocross and track days.
Just my opinion, but having logged roughly 3000 track and autocross miles on a c3 I can tell you they make fun street cars or great full out race cars, but pretty much suck at anything in between.
 
clutchdust said:
At the risk of getting flamed (although less likely here than elsewhere), my suggestion would be to save all the money you're planning on spending on a c3 and buy a decent, used Miata or something if you're plan is autocross and track days.
Just my opinion, but having logged roughly 3000 track and autocross miles on a c3 I can tell you they make fun street cars or great full out race cars, but pretty much suck at anything in between.
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It's okay to suggest a miata if you like cars that smile. Also, you have to be careful where you drive the miata, some fellers might think you're coming onto them when you drive such a cute car.

However, with that said, I'll have a V8 (or a CTS Spider)

Of course, all the above is said in good fun the project I'm building for my wife will take this Corvette's lunch (and any other Corvette, including the new ones) http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showthread.php/29229-CTS-Spider

Now, to your point. No on the Miata because a) it's cheaper to go fast in a Corvette once you move above spec racing; b) while you can put a V-8 in a Miata, you're asking for unibody twisting trouble if you do; c) for true light, spec racing, shifter cars will take a Miata's lunch for less then the purchase price of a stocker; d) stock, useable Miatas cost 5000-7000 in my neck of the woods. By the time I do the work to make it into a racecar, 1) it's no longer a street car, and 2) I'll have 12k into it... this Corvette, I'm keeping track, I'm not to 5k yet including the purchase price.

I hope that doesn't come across as flaming, I did consider that briefly, along with fox bodies.... but my ultimate goal is to learn suspensions and apply them to other cars (like my Spider) - after all for me this is a hobby, not a job. :)


plus, how could I ever wear my gold chains, toupee, and expose my hairy chest if I didn't have a C3? really, when? :)
 
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SBG, no problem. To each his own. I'm just coming at this from experience with a c3. Say what you want, but you're trying to get modern performance out of a chassis design that's 50 years old. If you really want to make it track capable, you need to start with a cage. Anything else and you're really just spending money.
But I've been pissing away money on mine for years and that hasn't stopped me either. Just a matter of what you like I suppose.
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
plus, how could I ever wear my gold chains, toupee, and expose my hairy chest if I didn't have a C3? really, when? :)
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Short form, wife/I get food store promo discounts from local gas station....

so she drives Escort, I drive her Miata...with her cute bead/necklace over the mirror.....on the seat/console is her PINK visor....so she led the way , and I followed, she picks the spot so we can back up to each other and get out total 20 gallon limit....on the way, put on her PINK sun visor....

and about knocked her off her feet as she seen me drive up....

she is 5'5" and I"m 6'5" so my head sticks up a good bit in that Miata.....

so we finish up her driver, and so I take the hose to finish up filling the Miata, and say, see you later honey'.....

so when I go to leave, this guy in a pickup on the other side of the island sez.....'Later Dear' or some such .....ME still wearing the visor....


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::tomato:
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
Twin_Turbo said:
The easiest way to make a droop limiter without resorting to straps is to use a SHORTER extended length shock.
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You're right, it's also an easy way to destroy a shock absorber :rolleyes:
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Do you have experience with this? I have done this and NEVER had a shock fail from spring pressure on the drooped suspension. I have done this on all my 3rd gen F body rears because the springs i use are loose in there and it's an MOT failure here. 1 car has straps, 3 have custom threaded shocks (by me) I only use quality shocks, koni & bilstein.
 
clutchdust said:
At the risk of getting flamed (although less likely here than elsewhere), my suggestion would be to save all the money you're planning on spending on a c3 and buy a decent, used Miata or something if you're plan is autocross and track days.
Just my opinion, but having logged roughly 3000 track and autocross miles on a c3 I can tell you they make fun street cars or great full out race cars, but pretty much suck at anything in between.
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talking from experience here... had a Miata and currently have a C3 and a C6. The C6 handles really good but due to weight I believe the Miata will be hard to beat on a tight AutoX course. I'd have to dump a lot more money into the C3 to get it even close to the handling of a Miata....
the car smiles but it doesn't matter if others only see the taillights....LOL
 
Twin_Turbo said:
SuperBuickGuy said:
Twin_Turbo said:
The easiest way to make a droop limiter without resorting to straps is to use a SHORTER extended length shock.
Click to expand...

You're right, it's also an easy way to destroy a shock absorber :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Do you have experience with this? I have done this and NEVER had a shock fail from spring pressure on the drooped suspension. I have done this on all my 3rd gen F body rears because the springs i use are loose in there and it's an MOT failure here. 1 car has straps, 3 have custom threaded shocks (by me) I only use quality shocks, koni & bilstein.
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yep, granted I was, in the english venacular, hooning the car in a manner which would get me arrested in 80 countries, and shot in 3 - but still, yes. It destroyed the valve - by trying to pull it out of the bottom of the shock. I also do some hooning in the wilderness, and there is no end to the way one can destroy a shock - though my favorite is making them into two separate, independent pieces.
 
MYBAD79 said:
clutchdust said:
At the risk of getting flamed (although less likely here than elsewhere), my suggestion would be to save all the money you're planning on spending on a c3 and buy a decent, used Miata or something if you're plan is autocross and track days.
Just my opinion, but having logged roughly 3000 track and autocross miles on a c3 I can tell you they make fun street cars or great full out race cars, but pretty much suck at anything in between.
Click to expand...

talking from experience here... had a Miata and currently have a C3 and a C6. The C6 handles really good but due to weight I believe the Miata will be hard to beat on a tight AutoX course. I'd have to dump a lot more money into the C3 to get it even close to the handling of a Miata....
the car smiles but it doesn't matter if others only see the taillights....LOL
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as my dad says - anyone can do things the easy way.... yet still, the question remains about front suspension upgrades to C3 Corvettes.... when I need advice on setting up a miata, I'll go ask on a miata site. :D
 
I hope this isn't a stupid addition but every time I've had trouble with the 81 Vettes handling it's been the rear going rogue.

I understand it's an archaic truck system, my 90 Range Rover handles better, but still. Shouldn't the VIP start at the rear?
 
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