Help me build a low buck/best bang engine

I wonder how you removed those mushroomed lifters from the block :bonkers::cry:

I've done the research back in 2005/2006: a rebuilt 1986+ 1pc rear main seal roller block with a new rotating assembly (assembled short block) is the way to go....I don't like the aftermarket retrofit roller lifters either....

I paid $2000 for my short block with a forged stroker rotating assembly. Plus $800 for the lifters/cam/spider/hardware/shipping

Rebuilding the stock block would have been $600 for machine work, $1000 (at least) for the rotating assembly, $800 for the retrofit lifter cam package plus my time to assemble it....plus small stuff like bearings....

For only $400 more I got an assembled short block with the cam of my choice delivered to my house.... the newer block uses stock GM roller lifters, saves $400 over the retrofit "stuff"....

OK, you got a free engine... I assume you want to build one from the parts you've got.... the V6 roller lifters seem to fit very well - you'll have to drill and tap the block for the hold-down spider though....
 
I wonder how you removed those mushroomed lifters from the block
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Well, they just fell out out when I tipped the block.
They don't seem to be mushroomed, just half of them seem to be concave and half of them straight.
I paid $2000 for my short block
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OK no chance for that to happen......:gurney: wallet is broken...

Any good news?
 
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I guess the good news is that you have it apart and know what you are dealing with. Time to get it cleaned up and sonic tested?
 
Imo Apita said:
OK no chance for that to happen......:gurney: wallet is broken...

Any good news?
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If you have a block that can be machined (I don't think this one with the sloppy lifter holes), it'll be about $500-$600 for machine work and then you'll need new pistons, bearings... the crank and rods that you have might be fine...
repairing the old engine won't be much cheaper than a Goodwrench engine, I think you can find these for $1295 or so...
 
Imo Apita said:
OK no chance for that to happen......:gurney: wallet is broken...

Any good news?
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Then i suggest you make due with the running engine you have in the car. How bad is it really? Maybe we can help you determine that.

If the bottom end is still in ok shape a cam change and a set of cheap aluminum heads is your most effective use of funds.

Now a lot of people will jump in and say don't attempt to freshen up or increase power on an old bottom end. I disagree for most hobbiest guys that are only using the car a few thousand miles per year. It'll be a long time before you put the final 50k miles on that 90k engine.

Or if you have plenty of time on your hands pull it and put new bearings in and do a re-ring. It shouldn't need a bore at 90K miles unless it has been poorly cared for.
 
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Well it's going to be a somewhat slow process due to budget.
Next weekend I'll have to borrow a cherry picker so that I can put it on a engine stand so I can open up the bottom end.
Right now it's sitting on a shipping cradle so I can't do anything else after taking the heads off.
I'll borrow some tools to measure the lifter bores.
 
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i'm curious. is this a friend that gave you that engine?
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A friend owns a car shop and a lot of his customers have classic cars.
One of them has a '66 Corvette and he wasn't happy with how his engine ran so he had a 327 put in that he bought from the internet and told the shop owner to get rid of the 350. He asked if it was okay to give it away and the guy said yes...so that's where I came in.
Put a thread on here to help id the engine and that's where we are now.

This is the part that I don't get:
Didn't take pics of the rockers yet but some of them are seriously worn, as in almost worn through. Put on too tight maybe?
The lifters look mushroomed maybe because of the angle of the picture but the all came out smooth with a little resistance.
Some of them have a really concave contact pad and are pitted. Others a straight with no visible wear, at least not to the naked eye.
It seems unlikely to me that the cam lobes beat it concave, it seems that they were concave to begin with and the cam lobe just "slapped" the damage for lack of descent contact. But that's me guessing, I don't know if certain types of lifters are that concave to begin with. If you'd see them you'd think that they are two different types. The cylinder bores look nice and feel smooth but might be glazed, I don't know how to recognize that.
The pistons and the combustion chambers have the same black coating so it may have been burning oil for a while.
 
Good thing that this engine was free... take it apart and even if it's only for your education or experience.. I doubt the block is useable and I'd be surprised if the missing material from the lifters did not destroy the bearings/journals....

What exactly is wrong with the engine that you currently have in the car? A stock L48 with cast crank and 2-bolt mains can still handle a lot of abuse, flat top pistons to bump the CR and some aluminum heads and a nice cam will make a hell of a difference. Personally I would never use a flat tappet cam but budget is budget.....
 
a few comments in blue:

Imo Apita said:
This is the part that I don't get:
Didn't take pics of the rockers yet but some of them are seriously worn, as in almost worn through. Put on too tight maybe?
probably hammered because of the worn lifter, is the pshrod hammered too ?
The lifters look mushroomed maybe because of the angle of the picture but the all came out smooth with a little resistance.
Some of them have a really concave contact pad and are pitted. Others a straight with no visible wear, at least not to the naked eye.
they're supposed to be slightly concave, looks like some got more lubrication than others
It seems unlikely to me that the cam lobes beat it concave, it seems that they were concave to begin with and the cam lobe just "slapped" the damage for lack of descent contact. But that's me guessing, I don't know if certain types of lifters are that concave to begin with. If you'd see them you'd think that they are two different types.
Just guessing here but maybe somebody swapped the lifters from bore to bore... if you remove them they must go back into the same location
The cylinder bores look nice and feel smooth but might be glazed, I don't know how to recognize that.
You can hit the cylinder bores with a bottle brush and install new pistons/new rings if the bores are round and not tapered... measure diameter in several locations down the bore
The pistons and the combustion chambers have the same black coating so it may have been burning oil for a while.

My biggest concern is the material from the lifters and cam lobe got pumped thru the entire oil system... expect to find more damage....
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MYBAD79 said:
Good thing that this engine was free... take it apart and even if it's only for your education or experience.. I doubt the block is useable and I'd be surprised if the missing material from the lifters did not destroy the bearings/journals....

What exactly is wrong with the engine that you currently have in the car? A stock L48 with cast crank and 2-bolt mains can still handle a lot of abuse, flat top pistons to bump the CR and some aluminum heads and a nice cam will make a hell of a difference. Personally I would never use a flat tappet cam but budget is budget.....
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I agree, get a decent set of L98 aluminum heads, and a mid range flat tappett cam, use decent oil and call it a day....obviously the heads you get have to go to a head shop....I paid like 150 for my heads, think Ralph charged me 200 to go over them and put in new Z28 springs, and set the coil height for my cam....

Maybe just leave your present lower end alone, just do the head swap....

slap a AFB at 600 cfm+ on a used Edel intake and it's done....

I bet with looking at ebay and craigslist locally you can find it all super cheep these daze....

even the cam and lifters...but stick with NAME brand good American stuff there, no import China crapola....

:beer:
 
by the way, just saw the comment about $300 to fix the Q-jet..... I have a Edelbrock Performer intake and the 1405 (600cfm) carb for sale, $150 plus shipping and it's yours, comes with intake gaskets, the carb is in great shape and ran fine when I recently removed it from my engine...
 
Thanks for all your replies so far...very much appreciated..

local pick up only please!! located in the bay area, cal
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Did just check the engine but I'm in Florida :rain:

Good thing that this engine was free... take it apart and even if it's only for your education or experience..
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That's what I'm thinking. Still new to this SBC stuff so if it turns out to be a dud..well at least I have to opportunity to learn something.
I might even port the heads just for the fun of it.
In any case have to wait till next weekend to open up the bottom end so this is going to be a long story.
I'm planning on 9 months maybe even a year to gather the parts for a rebuild so I'm not in a hurry.
Thanks for the offer of the intake & carb but I'll have to pass right now since I don't have the money. That's another reason for the 9-12 months...LOL
This is the kit I'm eyeballing for now:
Chevy 383 CLAIMER SB 2-PC Rear Seal
350 Main, Series 9000 Cast Crank, I-Beam Rods with 3/8" Cap Screws
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/scatsr-chevysbcast.html
 
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Pulled the second head.
No big surprises, carbon buildup in the combustion chambers and the smell of burnt oil. Took a better look at the valves, some of them look like a rodent nibbelt on the edges.
Found a rocker with a big crack in it and surprise,surprise it seems like it has two different types of pushrods in there; 6 of the "ball" type and 10 "sans ball".
Can anybody tell me the difference between the two and why would they have been used together?
Bubba rebuild?

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Are all them pushrods the same length?? I ask because of that rocker shown there.....I never seen one fail like that, so I wonder if the geometry of the valve train was messed up enough to have the retainer/keeper/spring assy hitting the rocker and it finally giving up....:hissyfit:

[
 
Been getting myself confused with static compression ratio and dynamic compression ratio.
Read that dynamic compression ratio determines the point at which detonation sets in and not static compression.
With a high SCR you can use a cam with a longer duration to bleed off some of the pressure in order to lower the DCR.
Question is to which point does this makes sense?
If you build a 12-1 SCR engine and need to use a cam with longer duration to keep it out of detonation you could end up with a DCR which is the same as a 10-1 engine.
If a 10-1 and a 12-1 engine have the same DCR which one makes more torque and HP?
Compression makes power but what is the golden number?
It doesn't make sense to me to have to bleed off and essentially just pouring power out the pipe.
Where am I going wrong in my thinking here?
Reason for these questions is that the above mentioned 383 stroker kit is the same price with 9-1 or 12-1 pistons and anything in between.
 
Imo Apita said:
Been getting myself confused with static compression ratio and dynamic compression ratio.
Read that dynamic compression ratio determines the point at which detonation sets in and not static compression.
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DCR is more closely related to actual cylinder pressures because it figures in valve timing. However it still does not take into account intake and exhaust efficiency, intake interia, exhaust scavenging and so on. It's does hold a close relation with cranking pressure because piston speeds are low there.

Imo Apita said:
With a high SCR you can use a cam with a longer duration to bleed off some of the pressure in order to lower the DCR.
Question is to which point does this makes sense?
If you build a 12-1 SCR engine and need to use a cam with longer duration to keep it out of detonation you could end up with a DCR which is the same as a 10-1 engine.
If a 10-1 and a 12-1 engine have the same DCR which one makes more torque and HP?
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The reason is actually the other way around, you don't build a high CR motor to bleed off cylinder pressure at low RPM with a long cam. The trick is, you want to run a long cam. Long cams come into their own @ higher rpm where piston speeds are higher and intake inertia gives it that ramming effect, flowing more into the cylinder against an already rising piston. At slow piston speeds that however results in a significant amount of pumping loss. The high CR recoups some of the losses, with the higher CR even with VE (volumetric efficiency) down and as such cylinder filling you still make a good amount of power because of the high CR. In other words, the high CR allows you to run the long cam without resulting in a sluggish powerless motor down low. There's always a trade off!
Think about the rule of thumb with the alu and iron heads, the alu heads can run about a point higher CR without detonation. If you build 2 identical engines they will make the same power. However if you up the CR with the alu heads 1 point it will make more power, install a longer cam it will be able to make (depending on how long the cam is but this is a rough comparison) the same power at low rpm as with the lower CR motor (result of bleeding off cyl. pressure) and even more @ higher RPM where the cam comes into it's own. Of course intake and exhaust have to be matched as well but this is a rough idea of what's going on.

Imo Apita said:
Compression makes power but what is the golden number?
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Cylinder pressure makes power and it's directly related to dynamic compression (and as such CR also plays a role) but more importantly to VE and the cam timing and of course cylinder temperature amongst other things (flame front speeds, amount of swirl, how homogeneous the mixture is dispersed, flat tops, dishes or worst domes, chamber size...this all has an impact on flame speed)

Imo Apita said:
It doesn't make sense to me to have to bleed off and essentially just pouring power out the pipe.
Where am I going wrong in my thinking here?
Reason for these questions is that the above mentioned 383 stroker kit is the same price with 9-1 or 12-1 pistons and anything in between.
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I think I explained it reasonably well above. :) Hope it helps.
 
Thanks a lot Twin Turbo, cleared up a couple of things.
I'll obviously read up on that topic more.
I want to build this engine right first time around.
Since it is low budget I think I need to figure in every detail.
 
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