Looking for advise on engine build...

spdrcr29

spdrcr29

Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
6
Location
Kansas City, MO
Hey Guys,

Starting to collect parts for my engine build. The plan is to go the 383 route. I've got a 3970010 block ready to be sent out for machining. For the bottom end, I have narrowed down to the following set-up from Summit:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-40605BI/

For the intake, I have a new Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap Intake that will be used. The p/n is EDL-7501. Carb size has yet to be determined.

For the heads, I was looking to go with either the Dart SHP or Pro 1 Heads. My question is which cc chambers and intake runners should I go with? I would like to keep compression at 10:1 or lower so I can run on pump gas. Seems there are multiple options - 64/200, 72/200, 64/180, 72/180, etc.

I have not yet decided on a cam choice. What I do know is that I will go with the retro roller set-up. I am looking for rpm range of 1,500-6,500.

I would like to be in the 450hp range with equal or greater torque...

This build will be for my 71. I have a Tremec TKO-600 tranny with 2.87 first gear and 0.64 overdrive. The rear gears are 4:11. I plan to use mainly for weekend cruising, car shows, occasional flogging, and a trip to the drag strip maybe once/twice a year.

Two more items:

Oil Pan: I am looking at this one from Summit. Will this work?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-30908/

Oil Pump: I was thinking about the Melling M55-HV. Will this work?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-M55HV/

I know i've listed a lot here. I am open to any/all suggestions and would be willing to consider other parts.

Thanks!

Brian
 
while I can guess what the CR is, are the rods stock length - 5.650, 5.7, or 6.0?

I would upgrade to the H beam rods rather then I-beam

4.11 gears?

With all the money you're spending, and you want to roller lifter the motor - why not simply get a dart block that's already machined and ready to go?

As for cam choice, you could probably get away with a 2500-6500 cam. Consider, the narrower the RPM range, the better the cam

based up a best guess of that rod length and a presumption the piston will be .035 in the hole

64 cc - 11.49
72 cc - 10.48

That said, your cam will be far more determinative of whether 11.5 is better then 10.5.... (you bleed off compression with overlap, and at higher rpms it's easier to avoid detonation so you can build for more power with all else being equal)

and please, this is the internet; and only best guesses - make friends with a local engine builder, or at least price getting a long or short block from a nationally-known builder... a lot of times they are not more expensive. If you really want to do it yourself, have them build the motor and you do a tear down/check clearance build...
 
Last edited:
spdrcr29 said:
Hey Guys,

Starting to collect parts for my engine build. The plan is to go the 383 route. I've got a 3970010 block ready to be sent out for machining. For the bottom end, I have narrowed down to the following set-up from Summit:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-40605BI/

For the intake, I have a new Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap Intake that will be used. The p/n is EDL-7501. Carb size has yet to be determined.

For the heads, I was looking to go with either the Dart SHP or Pro 1 Heads. My question is which cc chambers and intake runners should I go with? I would like to keep compression at 10:1 or lower so I can run on pump gas. Seems there are multiple options - 64/200, 72/200, 64/180, 72/180, etc.

I have not yet decided on a cam choice. What I do know is that I will go with the retro roller set-up. I am looking for rpm range of 1,500-6,500.

I would like to be in the 450hp range with equal or greater torque...

This build will be for my 71. I have a Tremec TKO-600 tranny with 2.87 first gear and 0.64 overdrive. The rear gears are 4:11. I plan to use mainly for weekend cruising, car shows, occasional flogging, and a trip to the drag strip maybe once/twice a year.

Two more items:

Oil Pan: I am looking at this one from Summit. Will this work?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-30908/

Oil Pump: I was thinking about the Melling M55-HV. Will this work?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-M55HV/

I know i've listed a lot here. I am open to any/all suggestions and would be willing to consider other parts.

Thanks!

Brian
Click to expand...

Brian

Unless I missed it there is no mention of rod lenth or which I beam rods that come in that kit.

So far I have not seen a prebalanced kit I was happy with, I always wondered how they weigh the parts as the piston boxes are sealed, Rods are sealed in plastic, ETC.

If those rods are the Scat I beams with 7/16 bolts those give you alot of cam clearance and pan rail clearance over the I Beams with 3/8 bolts.

I tend to go with the 6 inch rods.

Better rod ratio

Less piston hanging out of the bore at BDC

Lighter pistons

Less side loading.

The SHP Dart heads are good choice as well as the Pro-1's depending on your cam I would go with the 64CC 200 runner heads. I just got a set of SHP 200 CC runner heads from Dart as I beeen waiting for 2 months and for under 700.00 they seem to be pretty nice. I will look them over and check the spring pressures.

If your using retro fit roller lifters make sure they are fit to the lifter bores as I have seen alot of under size roller lifters.

I would zero deck the block and plate honing is a must if your looking for good ring seal which = power and torque. And make sure the shop is not using a rinky dink hone!!

Have not used a 25% more volume pump for years, I have been using the 10552 which is 10% more volume and so far no issues.

Its a good idea to have the block aligned honed as old GM blocks sometimes have alignment issues after many heat cycles over the years.

Good luck with your build
 
a 383 with +5cc pistons gives you a very high CR, not sure how much fun this is going to be driving on the road.... if it 's a weekend/track build then ok, but for normal driving (long trips) I would think you're going to hate it...
also, consider that you're going to spend a lot of cash and for that much (1500 for the kit plus the block plus the heads) you can buy a Lsx engine easily....

now all that said: a high CR wild cam 383 with a 5 spd can be a lot of fun :D

at that CR you should not be looking at cams designed for 1500 -6500 rpm but maybe 2500-7000 rpm :D

if you are willing to spend that much money on a rotating assembly then why not spend 200 more and get the 396 ??? and then buy some old 396 hood badges :D
 
Hey guys,

Sounds like I need to go back to the drawing board and re-think what I am looking to accomplish vs. how much I am willing to spend. I am an amature at best when it comes to building motors, but i'm not afraid to get in there and learn along the way. Fortunately/unfortunately, I know just enough to get myself in trouble!

Aside from going the crate motor route which I am not entirely opposed to, I am open to other suggestions as I am also up to the challenge of building my own motor...

Feel free to comment. Otherwise, thanks for the help!
 
Once you buy the heads CC the chambers as I have found with the AFR's that there 65 CC chambers were on 67.5 as its only a suggested CC they shoot for and from what I have seen it never exact.

I would worry more about the dynamic compression VS the static compression.

If your looking for a ton of torque you might look at the 180 CC runners.
 
spdrcr29 said:
Hey guys,

Sounds like I need to go back to the drawing board and re-think what I am looking to accomplish vs. how much I am willing to spend. I am an amature at best when it comes to building motors, but i'm not afraid to get in there and learn along the way. Fortunately/unfortunately, I know just enough to get myself in trouble!

Aside from going the crate motor route which I am not entirely opposed to, I am open to other suggestions as I am also up to the challenge of building my own motor...

Feel free to comment. Otherwise, thanks for the help!
Click to expand...

two things determine an engine build
use
and
money

what do you want to do with this? and how much do you want to spend. Would really help narrow to the best bang for buck - which is what I hear you saying. I'm really partial to BBC with aluminum heads. You can make stupid power with neandrathal parts (okay, aluminum is not quite knuckle dragging, but it's still close). Also, there's not that much weight penalty when you go with an aluminum top end. When building for reliable hp, the more stable the platform the better all around the motor will be.

That said, the most expensive route would be LS - first you have the cost of the motor (about the same as a BBC/aluminum heads or SBC 383) then you spend 3-4k more to put it in the car - for accessories, oil pan, headers, controllers, etc - it's hp per dollar is greatly disabled.

BBC uses the same motor mounts as SBC, same transmission mount (both of which are not true with the LS) and while the trans bolt pattern is the same, it's not the same distance from the crank flange so you have to buy an adapter.....
 
I have to disagree: the Ls1 or LS2 is cheap compared to a traditional build - a complete crashed car incl. T56 and AC is 3000 or less.....

now, back to the 383 build: what are you going to do with that car??? That is going to determine CR and cam choice.....

for a normal street driven weekend toy you want to look at 10:1 CR and a cam in the 220/230 duration range with maybe .500" lift..... the thumper cams are a great choice if you want good manners and a nice race idle sound :D

regardless of what engine you choose:

roller cam: yes, definitely :thumbs:

10552 oil pump: good choice
 
MYBAD79 said:
I have to disagree: the Ls1 or LS2 is cheap compared to a traditional build - a complete crashed car incl. T56 and AC is 3000 or less.....

now, back to the 383 build: what are you going to do with that car??? That is going to determine CR and cam choice.....

for a normal street driven weekend toy you want to look at 10:1 CR and a cam in the 220/230 duration range with maybe .500" lift..... the thumper cams are a great choice if you want good manners and a nice race idle sound :D

regardless of what engine you choose:

roller cam: yes, definitely :thumbs:

10552 oil pump: good choice
Click to expand...

what accessory drive gets you A/C, PS, and an alternator on a C3 Corvette? Accessory drives are 2k, new oil pan is 700, and transmission adapter is 200.... so you're at 6k for that build - not including the MSD ignition to make it run (another 300), intake - 300, carb 300.... I've looked quite longingly at the engine/transmission in my 06 GTO to put in my 75 C3.... it's not plug and play - in fact, I'd bet it's as much work as the Spider project I'm doing.

Good call on the thumpr cam, it's in my C3; I love that cam :) but I went with flat tappet - just got to remember the additive :)
 
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