Oil filter bypsss plug: Pros and Cons

[69427]

I appreciate the additional input. :thumbs:

Without changing the original topic, filters have been mentioned a couple times. I'd also be interested in some thoughts on different filter brands (or just the good things about some brands to keep the lawyers away). I've traditionally used AC filters over the years as I tried to "keep the money in the family", as it were. Now that GM has spun off a lot of the component divisions the past decade or so I'm no longer feeling the same loyalty. So, in addition to the main topic, any particular filter recommendations, and why?

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[big2bird]

I appreciate the additional input. :thumbs:

Without changing the original topic, filters have been mentioned a couple times. I'd also be interested in some thoughts on different filter brands (or just the good things about some brands to keep the lawyers away). I've traditionally used AC filters over the years as I tried to "keep the money in the family", as it were. Now that GM has spun off a lot of the component divisions the past decade or so I'm no longer feeling the same loyalty. So, in addition to the main topic, any particular filter recommendations, and why?

Thanks again,
Mike

I believe the consensous is Wix and Napa Gold. There IS a study someone did. Somebody will have the link.

 

[redvetracr]

dry sump oiling without a bypass...Wix/Napa Gold filters

 

[turtlevette]

CNC You haven't starved the bearings because you're using good HV & HP oil pumps.

TT is right in that, you can't push cold thick oil through the paper element. He is wrong claiming that oil is dirty just because its last pass was not through the filter. That oil sitting in the pan has been filtered thousands of times. You're talking about passing that very clean oil around the filter so that flow is maintained. The most wear occurs during cold startup.

I also agree with TT that a filter won't plug with trash. It could plug with assembly grease that gets overused in my opinion in rebuilds. I'm trying to think of other scenarios.

So what if someone gets a bet overzealous reving a cold engine with a plugged bypass and the paper element tears?

 

[turtlevette]

At least once a year I get a call from the track telling me there engine only has appox. 30 pounds of oil pressure HMMM I always say take the orange filter off put a 1061 NAPA gold filter on and call me back and its amazing going to a good filter oil pressure is back to 60 pounds again.

Isn't that an excellent argument for not plugging the bypass?

I have seen to many engines come in the shop with the bypass not plugged that have had dist. gears fail and cam lobes and lifters fail and all the junk went through the bearings HMMMMMM

Have you seen engines come in with the same failures with plugged bypass that are completely clean? I think its a fallacy to believe a plugged bypass is going to save the engine in those failure modes.

I do want to get your opinion on converting my Rodeck 350+ to wet sump in another thread.

 

[big2bird]

So what if someone gets a bet overzealous reving a cold engine with a plugged bypass and the paper element tears?

Use one of these:

http://www.gopurepower.com/site/products/hr-images/8400-D.asp

 

[CNC BLOCKS]

I appreciate the additional input. :thumbs:

Without changing the original topic, filters have been mentioned a couple times. I'd also be interested in some thoughts on different filter brands (or just the good things about some brands to keep the lawyers away). I've traditionally used AC filters over the years as I tried to "keep the money in the family", as it were. Now that GM has spun off a lot of the component divisions the past decade or so I'm no longer feeling the same loyalty. So, in addition to the main topic, any particular filter recommendations, and why?

Thanks again,
Mike

Do a serch on AC filters there not made where they use to be, Had another shop near me use one a plasitic piece junt under the threads broke loose and pluged an oil galley and caused the engine to fail.


I have been partial to the NAPA 1061 or the WIX 51061 and not the R filters as they have to big of micron rating for my liking over the standard 1061 filter.

So far over all the years the 1061 has served my customers well and everything looks like new during diassemble of the engines that come back for a freashen up.

 

[CNC BLOCKS]

At least once a year I get a call from the track telling me there engine only has appox. 30 pounds of oil pressure HMMM I always say take the orange filter off put a 1061 NAPA gold filter on and call me back and its amazing going to a good filter oil pressure is back to 60 pounds again.

Isn't that an excellent argument for not plugging the bypass?

I have seen to many engines come in the shop with the bypass not plugged that have had dist. gears fail and cam lobes and lifters fail and all the junk went through the bearings HMMMMMM

Have you seen engines come in with the same failures with plugged bypass that are completely clean? I think its a fallacy to believe a plugged bypass is going to save the engine in those failure modes.

I do want to get your opinion on converting my Rodeck 350+ to wet sump in another thread.

Isn't that an excellent argument for not plugging the bypass?

If you chose to have unfiltered oil go through your engines then go for it!!!

Have you seen engines come in with the same failures with plugged bypass that are completely clean? I think its a fallacy to believe a plugged bypass is going to save the engine in those failure modes.

I have see alot engines over they years with debris that has gone through the beairings becase the oil was not filtered because the bypass was open either because of heavy oil of HV pumps.

I have seen engines where guys have torn up dist. gears not clearance the block for the timing chain, Cam and lifter failures but all the bearing look great because the oil was filter not bypassed. I have seen fully grooved rods and mains because debris where bypassing the oil filter

How many engines do you see in a years time just to compare apples to apples here.

 

[vette427sbc]

Plugged mine a few years ago (chasing an odd oil pressure drop issue)... Always ran a wix filter with 10/40. Now I run 5/30 mobile1 with the small mobile 1 filter. High pressure pump too. Oil pressure is around 60psi (under normal driving loads) when its cold. I always wait for the oil temp to come up before gettin' on it. No noticeable wear on the dizzy gear or pump shaft- both of which were recently checked.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

CNC You haven't starved the bearings because you're using good HV & HP oil pumps.

TT is right in that, you can't push cold thick oil through the paper element. He is wrong claiming that oil is dirty just because its last pass was not through the filter. That oil sitting in the pan has been filtered thousands of times. You're talking about passing that very clean oil around the filter so that flow is maintained. The most wear occurs during cold startup.

I also agree with TT that a filter won't plug with trash. It could plug with assembly grease that gets overused in my opinion in rebuilds. I'm trying to think of other scenarios.

So what if someone gets a bet overzealous reving a cold engine with a plugged bypass and the paper element tears?

The oil in the pan may have been filtered and/or bypassed, it doesn't matter. The oil in the pan is contaminated, there is always trash in the pan. Particles, sludge.... Most of the debris in the engine is washed down into the sump, some of it collects in the rocker boxes and lifter valley but a lot is in the sump. Take a beaten old engine, tap off the oil..pull the pan and run your finger over the bottom. That's the very stuff you want to bypass past your filter and into your bearings
Having a bypass open means that oil is pumped out the sump and into the bearings unfiltered so any trash that is sucked up comes with it. Bits of rtv that may have fallen in there, sludge and other junk. You can not push cold oil through a cheap POS filter, if you use quality components there is no problem.

 

[turtlevette]

[The oil in the pan may have been filtered and/or bypassed, it doesn't matter. The oil in the pan is contaminated, there is always trash in the pan. Particles, sludge.... Most of the debris in the engine is washed down into the sump, some of it collects in the rocker boxes and lifter valley but a lot is in the sump. Take a beaten old engine, tap off the oil..pull the pan and run your finger over the bottom. That's the very stuff you want to bypass past your filter and into your bearings
Having a bypass open means that oil is pumped out the sump and into the bearings unfiltered so any trash that is sucked up comes with it. Bits of rtv that may have fallen in there, sludge and other junk. You can not push cold oil through a cheap POS filter, if you use quality components there is no problem.

This heavy stuff that the pump can't lift is going to magically kick up and get sucked into the pump for a short period when the bypass is open? Hundreds of hours of operation through the filter and that never catches it.

Old wives tales. Go ahead and block the bypass if it gives you a nut. I doubt any of your vechicles will operate long enough to even slightly discolor the oil much less create sludge.

 

[CNC BLOCKS]

CNC You haven't starved the bearings because you're using good HV & HP oil pumps.

TT is right in that, you can't push cold thick oil through the paper element. He is wrong claiming that oil is dirty just because its last pass was not through the filter. That oil sitting in the pan has been filtered thousands of times. You're talking about passing that very clean oil around the filter so that flow is maintained. The most wear occurs during cold startup.

I also agree with TT that a filter won't plug with trash. It could plug with assembly grease that gets overused in my opinion in rebuilds. I'm trying to think of other scenarios.

So what if someone gets a bet overzealous reving a cold engine with a plugged bypass and the paper element tears?

Re read my post I don't use HV pumps Let see in the spring and fall its pretty cold in the N/E and no problems with cold start ups.

The trick is to have a good filter to begin with I have alot of Dry sump engines running with no bypass and they seem to be fine.

How many years before I sould see a problem with starving bearings???

I have never had 1061 filter tear the paper yet.

Sounds like you are making alot of stuff up here or your reading to many books your not posting factual imformation thats for sure!!!

I have street rods that are over 15 years old now with just an M55 pumps and no problmes yet.

 

[CNC BLOCKS]

[The oil in the pan may have been filtered and/or bypassed, it doesn't matter. The oil in the pan is contaminated, there is always trash in the pan. Particles, sludge.... Most of the debris in the engine is washed down into the sump, some of it collects in the rocker boxes and lifter valley but a lot is in the sump. Take a beaten old engine, tap off the oil..pull the pan and run your finger over the bottom. That's the very stuff you want to bypass past your filter and into your bearings
Having a bypass open means that oil is pumped out the sump and into the bearings unfiltered so any trash that is sucked up comes with it. Bits of rtv that may have fallen in there, sludge and other junk. You can not push cold oil through a cheap POS filter, if you use quality components there is no problem.

This heavy stuff that the pump can't lift is going to magically kick up and get sucked into the pump for a short period when the bypass is open? Hundreds of hours of operation through the filter and that never catches it.

Old wives tales. Go ahead and block the bypass if it gives you a nut. I doubt any of your vechicles will operate long enough to even slightly discolor the oil much less create sludge.

I have no idea where you get your info from but you really don't have a clue here thats for sure LMFAO.

Just to compare apples to apples here do you build engines for a living or are you just a book reader or some one with no engine building experiance???

 

[CNC BLOCKS]

I built this engine in the links a few years ago 327 the bypass is plugged and a M55 pump this guy runs his car all winter long with the bypass plugged and 15/40 oil. The car has been to all 48 states with the bypass plugged. Last year the car was in Canada for the summer with the bypass plugged. This year the car is being shipped to Germany with the bypass plugged. This car also has a 370 rear gear as well.

This Corvette has almost 40,000 miles on the engine since I built it with the bypass plugged.

So can someone tell me when this engine is going to be starved for oil???

Links to the build

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-and-c2-corvettes/2289212-oil-pressure-problem-saga.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-...-engine-rebuild-oil-pressure-saga-update.html

48 state trip

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-and-c2-corvettes/2650649-the-car-is-packed-48-states-await-7.html

 

[turtlevette]

Just to compare apples to apples here do you build engines for a living or are you just a book reader or some one with no engine building experiance???

NO i don't build engines for a living. Do you have an engineering degree? Take a look at some SAE papers written by guys that design engines. You seem to have a need to prove that your are the ultimate authority based on how many engines you have rebuilt. That doesn't translate into being a design expert. It's also important to understand fluid and lubrication theory.

TT says that you need quality components, why mostly true, these components still obey the "laws of physics". You get cleaner oil by having media that will only pass the smallest of particles. These filters cannot operate at full flow rates. Filters that will tolerate full volume are those that will not catch small particles. There is no free ride. Most engineering designs are a result of balancing opposing philosophies to achieve the best result for the intended application.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

A quality filter can operate at full flow, that's why you buy a large oversize quality filter. More media surface, better flow. Very very simple. My system 1 filters filter down to about 25 to 30 microns. I can take them apart, inspect and wash the screens and assemble them.

Your whole story is abstract at best, if it filters down it can not flow and vice versa. Whilst true how can you be certain that a certain filter with a certain micron rating is not able to filter all the oil @ full flow? It depends on a lot of things, most importantly media design, material and size. Just flogging out a statement that anyone who has no bypass has to run a poor filtering filter because a good filtering one would not be able to filter all the oil flowed through it is a junk statement and has absolutely 0 to do with engineering. Only 2 things count, facts and real world experience.

What's it always with the derogatory comments? It's there in several of your posts here, it's the same routine each and every time. You get in a debate and have to resort to that to make your point. Frankly, I'm getting fed up with it again...this is you single and final warning. Clean up or be gone. I allowed you back becayse you asked politely. Now read your above posts an think about what you wrote.

I don't give a flying F if you think I don't put miles on my car, you failed to notice that I daily drive a couple of these.......

 

[CNC BLOCKS]

Just to compare apples to apples here do you build engines for a living or are you just a book reader or some one with no engine building experiance???

NO i don't build engines for a living. Do you have an engineering degree? Take a look at some SAE papers written by guys that design engines. You seem to have a need to prove that your are the ultimate authority based on how many engines you have rebuilt. That doesn't translate into being a design expert. It's also important to understand fluid and lubrication theory.

TT says that you need quality components, why mostly true, these components still obey the "laws of physics". You get cleaner oil by having media that will only pass the smallest of particles. These filters cannot operate at full flow rates. Filters that will tolerate full volume are those that will not catch small particles. There is no free ride. Most engineering designs are a result of balancing opposing philosophies to achieve the best result for the intended application.

Thats where myself and engineers disagree. I have hands on experiance and it works and has been proven for more then 38 years now.

Ya a Fram filter does not have good filter media like the NAPA or WIX but they work great.

I deal with alot of engine shops all over that plug there bypasses and I am sure they don't need an engineering degree to do this.

The 1061R filters flow 35 gallons a minute but have a bigger micron rating and I chose not to use them because of that.

I have paid my dues on testing what filter works with my combos and I did not need an egineering degree to do this and its all hands on testing and it works.

You may want to back to school!!!!

 

[CNC BLOCKS]

A quality filter can operate at full flow, that's why you buy a large oversize quality filter. More media surface, better flow. Very very simple. My system 1 filters filter down to about 25 to 30 microns. I can take them apart, inspect and wash the screens and assemble them.

Your whole story is abstract at best, if it filters down it can not flow and vice versa. Whilst true how can you be certain that a certain filter with a certain micron rating is not able to filter all the oil @ full flow? It depends on a lot of things, most importantly media design, material and size. Just flogging out a statement that anyone who has no bypass has to run a poor filtering filter because a good filtering one would not be able to filter all the oil flowed through it is a junk statement and has absolutely 0 to do with engineering. Only 2 things count, facts and real world experience.

What's it always with the derogatory comments? It's there in several of your posts here, it's the same routine each and every time. You get in a debate and have to resort to that to make your point. Frankly, I'm getting fed up with it again...this is you single and final warning. Clean up or be gone. I allowed you back becayse you asked politely. Now read your above posts an think about what you wrote.

I don't give a flying F if you think I don't put miles on my car, you failed to notice that I daily drive a couple of these.......

Thats what I thought I was dealing :lol: Thank you for posting!!!

If he wants to blow smoke up my a$$ he better build a bigger fire then that!

 

[big2bird]

Most engineering designs are a result of balancing opposing philosophies to achieve the best result for the intended application.

While I do not always condone Jim's "ways and means", I do believe this statement to ring true.

The bypass is probably a result of GM engineers considering the scenario of "The little old lady" that does not KNOW to change oil, add oil, or change filters, or forgets for years at a time. I am sure the warranty bean counters were involved.Getting the powerplant to last past warranty is priority.

In the race car scenario. a system that most certainly is maintained to the nth degree, where the oil is most certainly changed after every race, it's a moot point. The full flow system saves components from further damage during catastrophic failure.

A few well placed rare earth magnets would also certainly help.

I can also see the need off road.
My old dune buggy was totally sealed,(All vents were filtered), used K&N air filters, yet after a hard weekend at El Mirage, the oil always felt like suspended rubbing compound.:lol:
And yes, we had an external cooler/filter on the old 1750cc VW.

 

[CNC BLOCKS]

Here is some testing on the oil filter bypass

My garage test results for factory C-1 oil filter canister bypass.

Test (1): bypass came off its seat .095 at 35*F using 10w-30 grade oil @ 13.6 psi.
Test (2): increasing oil temp to 55*F using same oil, bypass opened @ 18.2 psi.
Test (3): increasing oil temp to 75*F bypass opened @ 21.7 psi.
Test (4): increased oil temp to 95*F bypass opened @ 23.5 psi.
Test (5): increased oil temp to 115*F bypass opened @ 24.4 psi.
Test (6): increasing oil temp to 135*F bypass opened @ 24.8 psi.
Test (8): increasing oil temp to 155*F bypass opened @ 25.2 psi.
Test (9): increasing oil temp to 195*F bypass opened @ 25.7 psi.


My next test I added a digital flow meter (only to the bypass) measuring the volume. Also I'm staying with the same temps that are indicated in each test above. I increased the pressure to move bypass off its seat .218 or 7/32" increasing flow to (1) qt. and measured the approx fill time.


Test (1): volume oil flow through bypass (only) at 35*F @ 16.8 lbs. (1) qt. approx every 10.1 sec.

Test (2): at 55*F @ 21.3 psi. (1) qt. approx every 13.2 sec.
Test (3): at 75*F @ 24.8 psi. (1) qt. approx every 14.0 sec.
Test (4): at 95*F @ 25.4 psi. (1) qt. approx every 15.9 sec.
Test (5): at 115*F @ 26.1 psi. (1) qt. approx every 17.4 sec.
Test (6 – 9) are less then a quart, or bypass closed.

All measurements are within +/- 1%
The conclusion stock oil filter bypasses are open most of the time during cold starts and cruising speeds. That indicates your oil is 100% filtered only when oil is warm at idle, or under 24 psi of oil pressure.

rustylugnuts :ack:

interesting tests!
on the advice on some hot rod books, and being in Fla i put a pipe plug in both my 350's.
So 100% gets filtered.
10 yrs ago my 72 wiped a cam lobe,
so no shavings into bearings,
so new cam went in without having to clean out oil passages and rebuild engine.
I'd up the spring pressure if i still lived up north. very cold starts needs a bypass

Knowing my local machine shop probably doesn't have the same quality control for cleanliness that GM does, I'm gonna go ahead with the plugging of the by-pass to give me assurance that the filter catches any left over debris during start-up and break-in of my newly rebuilt motor.