DeeVeeEight
Fast Pedalphile
Thanks for this Jeff, I'll be giving them a call.
So, what if..............
- Thread starter big2bird
- Start date
Thanks for this Jeff, I'll be giving them a call.
DJ Dep
refugee from the other place
Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to NM. Population has not increased in proportion to the energy increses. Yes, I have almost all that crap on the list. But the rate increase didn't happen UNTIL the people started jumping on the solar bandwagon and PNM realized their profits were going down. Fuel is plentiful in NM compared to other states. There is no shortage of electricity. What we are seeing is electric bills that previoulsy dropped down very low in Winter just a couppe of years ago are suddenly staying the same and higher all year round. Gas bills drop to almost nothing in Summer, but rise in Winter.
And you forget that appliances that were VERY inefficient in the 50s-60s are now much more efficient. So while there are many of them, they actually draw much less juice than they used to.
BTW...just the central air alone makes solar a bad investment. No matter how many panels I put on the roof, it won't be enough to put a dent in AC electric useage. The AC stays on night and day. Make mine nuclear any time.
73 Mike
I'll drive it someday
My electric bill last month was over $300. The systems are set up so that you still have to pay for part of your electric usage. In other words, they don't want you to go negative.
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Wow, $300 a month is big, you must be all electric (heat, etc)! Do you mind if I ask how much your cost per kWh is? Mine works out to $.137/kWh with tariffs and other costs on board ($.096 actual).
Maybe it's different for you but being in Ohio and not having the benifit of lots of sunlight, the payoff for me is 24 years from now. So, it's a non starter, I'll probably be dead by then or so old I don't care if there is electricity or not.
This caculator is where I got my info:
http://www.findsolar.com/Widgets/CalculatorEmbed.aspx?t=pro&id=993
73 Mike
I'll drive it someday
I'll have to go and check but the short answer is "Too f'n much." No electric heat (gas) but when the A/C is running, my electric bill goes through the roof. I also have an electric heater for the hot tub and I figure that costs at least $2 per day to run.
Funny story regarding heat. Several years ago during the Thanksgiving break, i was painting trim right near the main air inlet for the furnace. I listened to it cycle on several times but never come on. I did a little investigating and found out that the ignitor was broken. I think the furnace may well have been broken that year from April. If I haden't been painting, it probably would have been Christmas before I noticed that we had no heat.
DJ Dep
refugee from the other place
Geez...highest electric bill I have had since moving to the New Mexico furnace is $200 and that was last year when it was REAL hot and the AC ran all day and all night. How is your insulation? And how old is the Air Conditioner? Maybe you need a more powerful one for the house you have. I had a Trane when I lived in Illinois and when I bought it I told the salesman I wanted frost inside the house when it was 95 degrees outside. I ended up with the biggest AC unit Trane sold for houses. But it was so efficient that it hardly used any electricity and the house was so cold I needed heavy comforters in the heat of August. Geez I miss that AC. 
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
Self installed solar is not cost effective for everyone, varies greatly by:
Cost per KWH
Usage
Latitude
Climate
Property orientation
Obviously, a solar facility on an outhouse is not the answer
Larry, I too figure to .137 per KWH, with a monthly usage of about 1,000KWH
This is about $150 a month, A/C at 70* year round, and lots of lights,TV's , computers, etc.
Last year it was double that, but I spent $4,000 on state of the art A/C, ducts, added attic venting, etc. I am also not done. I intend on doing more. Double pane windows are on the list.
Solar runs about 12 year payback for me, and is not quite worth it, but is getting closer. If I was 20 years younger, I would be all over it.
Anaheim is installing 1,000 residential units this year, and picking up the tab. I make too much money to qualify.
Dep old buddy, your rates are cheap. Figure it out. With your climate and A/C usage, it is quite low. NM is a weak economy, and they tend to adjust rates for that, just like gasoline.
As for solar enabling you to run your A/C, that just is not how it works.
When your A/C is running, it would draw from the grid. When cycled off, the meter would run backwards, returning power to the grid.
The solar would not work at night, but your cooling load would also be down.
Only a PV cost analysis would determine your payback, and your utility incentives.
If your system is not strained like so cal, they won't have much.
Cost per KWH
Usage
Latitude
Climate
Property orientation
Obviously, a solar facility on an outhouse is not the answer
Larry, I too figure to .137 per KWH, with a monthly usage of about 1,000KWH
This is about $150 a month, A/C at 70* year round, and lots of lights,TV's , computers, etc.
Last year it was double that, but I spent $4,000 on state of the art A/C, ducts, added attic venting, etc. I am also not done. I intend on doing more. Double pane windows are on the list.
Solar runs about 12 year payback for me, and is not quite worth it, but is getting closer. If I was 20 years younger, I would be all over it.
Anaheim is installing 1,000 residential units this year, and picking up the tab. I make too much money to qualify.
Dep old buddy, your rates are cheap. Figure it out. With your climate and A/C usage, it is quite low. NM is a weak economy, and they tend to adjust rates for that, just like gasoline.
As for solar enabling you to run your A/C, that just is not how it works.
When your A/C is running, it would draw from the grid. When cycled off, the meter would run backwards, returning power to the grid.
The solar would not work at night, but your cooling load would also be down.
Only a PV cost analysis would determine your payback, and your utility incentives.
If your system is not strained like so cal, they won't have much.
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
It's just a point of effeciency.
1,200 ' sq of roof equates to X output, and most single home residences use x+. If you had 2,400 'sq, and still used x+, you would sell more back. It's more coincidence than you might think.
As PV cells get improved, that will change, but so will cost of course. It IS a business of course.
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
30 years ago, I was doing a job at Anaconda copper wire. Rebates for solar water heating were in place.
ARCO, now BP, bought Anaconda, drove up prices, closed the copper mines in Utah, and closed the factory saying "There was no money in it." Copper shot thru the roof, and solar heating died.
Tell me the oil companies aren't scared. I saw it from the inside out.
ARCO, now BP, bought Anaconda, drove up prices, closed the copper mines in Utah, and closed the factory saying "There was no money in it." Copper shot thru the roof, and solar heating died.
Tell me the oil companies aren't scared. I saw it from the inside out.
I had a neighbor that bought a solar hot water system back in the 80's when they had a big push on them here. He was happy that he paid over 5 grand for it. I didn't see the sense in it since it was supplimental, doubt he would ever break even. A lot of money back then. Buy a better seer central a/c instead with a heat recovery unit.
And speaking of BP, why are these bozos wanting to cap this well off. Why don't they use this process to repipe the leak and harvest the oil, just like the original intent before the pipe broke. What am I missing?
And speaking of BP, why are these bozos wanting to cap this well off. Why don't they use this process to repipe the leak and harvest the oil, just like the original intent before the pipe broke. What am I missing?
Geez...highest electric bill I have had since moving to the New Mexico furnace is $200 and that was last year when it was REAL hot and the AC ran all day and all night. How is your insulation? And how old is the Air Conditioner? Maybe you need a more powerful one for the house you have. I had a Trane when I lived in Illinois and when I bought it I told the salesman I wanted frost inside the house when it was 95 degrees outside. I ended up with the biggest AC unit Trane sold for houses. But it was so efficient that it hardly used any electricity and the house was so cold I needed heavy comforters in the heat of August. Geez I miss that AC.
Most people would crap if they knew how inefficient their older a/c system is. In southern climates, you can almost cut your bill in half with a new decent unit. I had a friend that bragged about his 20 year old 2stage compressor system, great when new, but he could have paid for a replacement 2 times over for the inefficiency, too cheap to even want to listen.
Ours bill runs aound 250/mo every month all year, but the queen likes her a/c.
First 1000kwh are.03857 then it's .04857kwh. They add 15 bucks for other charges.
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
Don't worry, they will. No doubt that is what the second well is for. One is lower than the other for a reason.
DJ Dep
refugee from the other place
Damn...so much for the solar outhouse plan.
You don't know New Mexico nights :skeptic:
DJ Dep
refugee from the other place
And does anyone know WHY those wells are located so far away from the coast line and shallower water? It sure ain't because the oil companies like a challenge or prefer doing it the hard way.
DJ Dep
refugee from the other place
Geez...highest electric bill I have had since moving to the New Mexico furnace is $200 and that was last year when it was REAL hot and the AC ran all day and all night. How is your insulation? And how old is the Air Conditioner? Maybe you need a more powerful one for the house you have. I had a Trane when I lived in Illinois and when I bought it I told the salesman I wanted frost inside the house when it was 95 degrees outside. I ended up with the biggest AC unit Trane sold for houses. But it was so efficient that it hardly used any electricity and the house was so cold I needed heavy comforters in the heat of August. Geez I miss that AC.
Most people would crap if they knew how inefficient their older a/c system is. In southern climates, you can almost cut your bill in half with a new decent unit. I had a friend that bragged about his 20 year old 2stage compressor system, great when new, but he could have paid for a replacement 2 times over for the inefficiency, too cheap to even want to listen.
Ours bill runs aound 250/mo every month all year, but the queen likes her a/c.
First 1000kwh are.03857 then it's .04857kwh. They add 15 bucks for other charges.
Hey...my wife came from swampy Florida and I came from hot-swampy Illinois. When we moved here everyone suggested a "swamp cooler" mounted on the roof because they are cheaper. My wife had a swamp cooler in her apartment before I moved to NM and when I visited her it was the middle of August. I asked her if the AC was broken because all I could feel was humidity. She said that WAS the AC. I told her then and there that when we bought a house we would have REAL A/C, and not some bogus swamp cooler. I have the 2-stage compressor on a brand new supersize Carrier unit. Not as good as the Trane I had in Illinois, but still pretty good. My only beef is with the damn ecofreaks and the new style of freon we have to use. The new stuff is LESS efficient than the old stuff. Same thing with car AC units. They aren't as effective as the old freon.
And all that "ozone depletion" crap was shown to be a hoax. Just like Al Gore's global cooling/warming/climate change.
http://www.mitosyfraudes.org/Ingles/Crista.html
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
I have R-134A in my 03 Silverado, and R-12 in my 81 Vette. Care to ask which one works better?
The home units just operate at higher pressures.
I thought you were just bragging about how cheap it was to operate?
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
Because that is where the big 3 year supply is. You go where the oil is. Straight down is cheaper than horizontal . I don't think they want to drill 300 miles horizontal.
DJ Dep
refugee from the other place
Not quite true Bird...
They drill in deep water, despite the high costs because US environmental laws force them to. The government doesn't want them drilling next to the shore or on land. This is what happens when we let the government try to be all things to all people. They force the companies into deep water operations, when in fact a portion of the fault lies with our inadequate government listening to environmental groups rather then makes decisions based on real abilities of mankind. The fact that Government listened to uniformed people to determine their policy is a contributing factor to this situation. Had our Government listened to experts in the field rather then extremists groups with a radical environmental agenda the situation could have been capped in a few hours. Perhaps it could have been completely avoided.
The fact is that there is a great deal of oil in places far closer and safer. If BP, or any other company, were chasing profit, this is not their first choice. There are many inland locations that would work for this purpose. These deep water wells are horrible and unsafe locations. It is the environmental groups that have caused restrictions to their drilling locations. If profit were a motivating factor, drilling inland would ALWAYS be chosen. Super deep wells (40K feet) can reach abiotic oil deep within the earth in many locations. We need a more honest and logical drilling plan for the United States that takes into account actual demands and abilities of oil companies.
The oil companies drill wherever the government will sell them a lease. The location of these leases are specified by the US government, they are pretty much all deep water these days.
DJ Dep
refugee from the other place
The oil companies drill wherever they get PERMISSION to drill. There are LOTS of land leases owned by oil companies that are locked up because of alleged environmental concerns. Getting a lease does not mean they automatically have permission to drill. Anwar is a perfect example.
http://www.coverups.com/mediacoverups/economy/anwr.htm