81 project

Okay, been busy, thought some of you might be interested. First off, I have a bone stock 81, with now about 70K on it. But as we all know, the cars weren't exactly over powered. There are certainly several ways to increase the power of the existing engines, but I've always wanted a big block vette and love the 80-82 body style so I thought I'd build a big block for my car.

The engine is a 402 punched .030 making it about a 409. Its running 10:1 comp with a strong cam that pulls from 1800-6500. I degreed it 6 degrees so it should pull a bit sooner. I also had larger valves put in the heads and had the ports cleaned up a bit so it'll breathe better. I'll be using the 81 E4ME because I like Qjets and think they're just miss-understood critters. I contacted Cliff Ruggles and he made me a customized rebuild kit for it and showed me what to use in his book to make this carb work with the BB. I'll also be running a serpentine set up, fit from a small block adapted to the BB. I'll run an aluminum radiator with dual electric fans to keep it cool.

Well, a big block and a TH350 don't go so well together so I needed a transmission for it. There are certainly several ways to go, but for all things considered, I choose the 2004R route. I'll be keeping the rear end with the stock gears for awhile, and I like the gearing of the 2004R compared to say the 700. The car is to be built to be able to be a daily driver and to take on long trips, so the gearing is important and with the torque the engine should have, it still shouldn't have a problem leaving stop lights.

I've never built an automatic trans before so this was fun. I used parts and a book from CK Performance in New York. Chris has been very helpful and I've added things like billet parts, a coupe extra clutch discs, some servo and valve body work and a little machine work like adding holes for cooling and such. Chris built a custom torque converter for the car, it's a 10 inch and has a stall speed of 2800rpm, but according to Chris will have very street able manners. (A good thing cause I'm sure I could pop the rear end with this set up if I really wanted to!!)

So, the engine is built, the trans is built, and it's time to put them in the car. I didn't want to put a new engine and trans in at the same time as this is my firs trans and with the cam break in procedure, that's too much for my nerves!!! :sweat: So, I thought I'd put the trans behind the stock 350 to check it out.

Anyone who says the 2004R is a bolt in isn't exactly telling the truth. Yep the trans bolts right up to the engine, and the speedo cable screws in, but...the trans mount is 7 inches farther back than the TH350. Not too big a deal, you can buy a cross member for about $200 from several places, or you can modify the one that’s in the car. That's what I'm doing this week. Also, the shift cable mounting bracket won't fit, it has to be modified. The cooling lines are close, but depending on your car, you might have some work to do. And the 200 is a heavy SOB! That and I'm definitely getting older!!

I should have the trans in and complete by the weekend, I'll post and let everyone know how it turns out. Then it's engine time....

Needless to say, I'll have a bunch of stock 81 parts I won't be needing, so if anyone is interested, let me know!!

The car looks like it's in great shape. Nice project. If you have any questions about the serpentine conversion let me know.

Here is a pic of my 1981 Corvette with a bored out 427 with 2 4 barrels, nitrous and a 6 speed t56 transimssion
it will turn out fine, just take your time. I am 28 and have been doing swaps like this for years. Looks like you have alot nicer place to work out in than I ever had.

Your car color reminds me of mine when I bought it....beautiful burgundy, sure looks grand.....

I am very curious about how that 200 holds up with that BB in front....I would THINK the tires are your ultimate protection....:yahoo:

My '72 was a muncie car, and so had a bracket/shoe setup bolted to the welded cross member, when removed, the 200 sets right on the two bolt holes, but mine had to be elongated to the rear about 1/2 inch or so.....I would imagine the 350 member would have a similar setup, or maybe move the cross support to the rear, some cars had a choice of bolt locations....I dunno about later sharks though....the shift cable bracket will have to use just one bolt in the stock location, and open the loop to hit the other, or drill it....I forget....but ONE of them lines up fine....

I"m age 65, and did my 200 changeout some 4-5 years ago, had to do the flexplate after that, due to teeth gone, tons of fun, no lift either....so buck up olde phardt, you can do it too.....:yahoo::rofl:

I am VERY curious to see how you get a SB serp setup to fit on a BB, I went serp off a '88 vette long time ago, but mine is SB, so a bolt on....I never thought it would fit a ALL on a BB from the comments over the years....

:bonkers:

Thanks BBShark!

The serpentine set up I'm looking at uses some adapter plates off of ebay. $130 is a bit high, but then again, all the work is done. My next concern is going to be keeping it as low as possible cause as others will tell you, down here we need AC and the AC compressor sits the highest!! As much as I'd like to keep it all under the stock hood, that ain't gonna happen, but I'd still like to keep all the accessories as low as I can. I was thinking a system off of a early 90's Camero?

Very nice project. Great car color :thumbs:

damoroso said:

Thanks BBShark!

The serpentine set up I'm looking at uses some adapter plates off of ebay. $130 is a bit high, but then again, all the work is done. My next concern is going to be keeping it as low as possible cause as others will tell you, down here we need AC and the AC compressor sits the highest!! As much as I'd like to keep it all under the stock hood, that ain't gonna happen, but I'd still like to keep all the accessories as low as I can. I was thinking a system off of a early 90's Camero?

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The Ebay brackets are not going to work but a similar setup will. The tensioner is at the highest point. If you measure 9 inches from the centerline of the water pump pulley to the top of the tensioner you should be good. This is the clearance to the underside of a stock BB hood (BB hood is worse than a stock hood because of the fake vents):



This is a drawing of my setup with the original SB Chevy truck accessory positions (purple) and the new positions (green):

Hey Shark, I understand what you're showing, and I can see how it would work to move everything lower, but if the ebay "adapter" brackets won't work, did you make your own? As I understand it, the small block mounting brackets for the AC, Alt and PWS won't bolt up directly to the BB, how did you shift everything?

These are the brackets I'm looking at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Big-...ies?hash=item35a3045bd4&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

I did make my own brackets. I'll see if I can dig up some pictures and drawings. Here are some pix of it mounted up:

Very, very nice. I'd really appreciate the drawings if you can find them. It looks like your set up give better access to the power steering pump too. I'm using the GM performance parts intake, so it's not that high, who knows, I just might be able to fit it all under the hood!!

Got the trans completely bolted up last night, now I have to mod the cross member. Shouldn't be too bad, I'm planning on cutting the existing bracket off, and "notching" the cross member where the new trans mount will set. I'll reinforce it with some plate steel gussets and it should be good. Like Gene was saying, I'll have to modify the shift cable bracket, but no big deal there. I'll use the forward bolt hole and use a notch instead of a hole for the rear of the bracket. The bracket isn't thick enough where I'd have to drill another hole. I'll post pics of the cross memeber and bracket when I get them done.

Funny, my '72 muncie car had the center bracket bolted in place with just 4 bolts....two through where the tranny will set, and two down lo/front on some tabs....it was modified for a 700 tranny, then was eliminated for the 200 tranny....

:beer:

c3 hood

Becareful when chosing a hood. I added a stinger hood to my car which gave me an extra 2 1/2" over stock and I am still having clearance issues.

I had to take the edelbrock air filters and modify them to sit lower about 1 and 1/2" total height of my filters. It leaves me with 1/2" clearance under hood.

I am using an edelbrock 066 dual quad intake and under the carbs I have 1/2" nitrous plates.

I like the stinger hood alot and I will stick with it, but an l88 hood would have helped me out with clearance big time.

I know what you mean about the hood!! MYBAD79 has a thread in the body work section about how he modified the stock hood. I think I'm gonna try that route first, mostly because I can determine exactly how high the hood is and besides, the stock hood isn't going to do anything but take up space untill I could sell it. I'll do a bit of research to see if selling it and buying the L88 hood makes sense though...

Oh..got the trans cross memeber cut down for the 20004R last night, tonight I'll weld in the pieces that I need and tomorrow I should be able to find out if the trans works or not!! I've been taking pictures of the mods so I'll post them once it's done.

damoroso said:

I know what you mean about the hood!! MYBAD79 has a thread in the body work section about how he modified the stock hood. I think I'm gonna try that route first, mostly because I can determine exactly how high the hood is and besides, the stock hood isn't going to do anything but take up space untill I could sell it. I'll do a bit of research to see if selling it and buying the L88 hood makes sense though...

Oh..got the trans cross memeber cut down for the 20004R last night, tonight I'll weld in the pieces that I need and tomorrow I should be able to find out if the trans works or not!! I've been taking pictures of the mods so I'll post them once it's done.

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Middleburg is just down the road a piece....we can meet up for a glance over....

gimme a call if you want.....

I"m in OPark up the road....

81 project update

Okay,

As we all know, projects NEVER go as planned! This has been close so far, but, broke two exhaust studs (thankfully, the ones that hold the exhaust pipes on, not in the heads) one on each side. Had to take the right side manifold off to get that stud out, the drivers side came out on the car. When I pulled the manifold, I found that pesky little exhaust leak, it was two of the air tubes cracked at the manifold. Thought that was what I'd find, so I got those welded up, even though I won't be using them for long. (I'll see if someone wants a pair of stock "header type" exhaust manifolds for an 81 and see if I can recoup a few bucks). I modified the stock shifter plate so I could get to all 4 gear positions with the stock shifter.

When I got everything put back together, I went ahead and filled the trans with fluid (knowing that I'd have to add to it when I started the engine), figuring I'd get everything get done finished while waiting for the cross member. Everything looked good until I went out to the garage the next day and found a nice shiny pool of new red trans fluid under the car!!! It looked like the trans pan was leaking and I thought I might have forgotten to tighten it.....nope. The billet intermediate servo cover was leaking like it was raining!!! The billet servo has a thicker piston with double seals in it, and the cover (which is larger in diameter than the stock one to accommodate the piston) wouldn't hold the stock o-ring and fit in the case. The instructions were not all that clear; they used the stock servo exploded view, so I thought maybe that's why there are two seals on the piston, the cover won’t let the o-ring fit in the bore. Nope. After trying to get a stock o-ring on twice more and cutting them both, (and getting more and more frustrated, the trans shop I bought the stuff from is on vacation till the 4th!!!) I started looking for another o-ring that would fit better. Stretched one, even boiled it to see if it'd hold, it held on the stove….

Then, my welder buddy finally got time to do the welding on the cross member. It only took us a couple of hours, but finding that time can be a challenge sometimes! We made the modifications we wanted to the stock cross member, but haven’t powder coated it yet, figuring when I pull the engine we could make it pretty then. We bolted it up, found we need to make some minor modifications and I need to re-route one of the exhaust pipes, but we got everything bolted up, for now.

We got everything running, took the car around the neighborhood then back in the garage to top the fluid off and it was raining red under the car again!!! The o-ring that held on the stove obviously didn’t in the trans! Finally found an o-ring off an oil filter that uses an o-ring vs. the flat seal, and it works great! No more servo leaks! But what a PIA to change that when the trans is in the tunnel and everything is bolted up!

The thing shifts really well, but I need to do some adjustment, as it shifts from 2-3 a bit too soon if left to itself. Under WOT, it shifts from 3 to OD a bit too early for my taste as well, so I suspect the TV cable needs a bit of adjustment. I let the trans shop talk me into a 2800 stall converter, even though I knew better. I told them I wanted this very street-able, and they said “You won’t even know it’s in there unless you leave hard”. Wrong. It feels like the trans is slipping leaving a stop unless you leave more aggressively than normal, and I knew this would be the case. Also, lifting off the gas to slow down, doesn’t work so well with this torque converter either. With the rear end gears, the rpm are so low, the converter isn’t locked up and as a result, the car just coasts, the engine isn’t slowing you down at all. The shop did say if I wasn’t happy with the converter, they’d swap it, so, when I pull the engine, I’ll ask them to send something more like a 1900 stall.

As for the drivability, well, the speedometer calibration is AFU now, so I used the “stop watch” method to see where it was. With the cruise control set at 60, I was doing a mile in approx. 46 seconds. 3600 (seconds in an hour) divided by 46 equals 78.26mph. So it would seem the speedo is off by about 18mph. I’m sure I can fix that with the right speedo gear. Oh…and that was at about 1700-1800 rpm….right in the beginning of the big blocks power band….

Next steps, today or tomorrow, I'll take it to the local muffler guy, who does fantastic work for a fair price here, (I think John's shop is called Dollar Muffler) to get the pipe re-routed, and I'll take some more pics to post showing the trans installed. Then in the next week or so, it's pull the engine and get the BB in there. I'll be getting the serpentine stuff this week, not sure if I'll put that stuff on before or after dropping the engine in. I'll have some time to think about it though, lot's of cleaning up to do in the engine bay!

Had a guy with a GT500 blow by me day before yesterday (I didn't even try, I know better)...those days are coming to an end!!!!!!!!

Okay, got most of the trans issues sorted out, the speedo is still off, but now it's showing 4mph faster than I'm going. Better, but not right yet. Still some work to do there, but at least I'm comfortable enough with the trans to start the engine work.

So, pulled the engine this weekend and now the fun really starts!! Put the car up and decided to pull the engine and trans as a unit. I did this because I still have to change the speedo gears in the trans and I’m having a hard time getting the pan to seal, so the pan has to come off anyway. I also want to change up the cross member just a bit, I want to drop the trans mount plate another inch. The trans was sitting just a bit nose down, and this will get it level.

I’ve sorted out what of the original parts from the car I need to keep and now I’ll be cleaning everything up, including the engine bay. I also have to figure out what in the engine bay needs to stay or go!! We did a “test fit” of the new engine (had a friend helping, and am I glad he did!!), and it’s tight, but I don’t have to do any fiberglass work on the a/c box and the valve covers clear the vacuum booster for the brakes. The headers are really tight, but they do fit. I bought Lakewood motor mounts from Summit, and they were really tight on the towers. We had to work on them a bit to get them to fit, we’ll do a final fit test tonight. I ordered the big block mounts, and maybe that’s the problem, maybe I should have ordered small block mounts instead. Regardless, these’ll fit when we’re done with them!!

Still have to get to the bone yard to find the serpentine stuff, clean it up and get it powder coated, but I should be able to start putting it back together in the next week or two. The goal is to have it done by Thanksgiving so I can drive it to Daytona for the Turkey Run!!

I’ll be posting the parts I don’t need anymore in the parts for sale section. I’ll have the exhaust manifolds, radiator, shroud, aux fan, air cleaner and associated duct work, and some other stuff for sale…..

Wow the engine looks amazing, very nice paint scheme! Looks so clean. Take some videos when you get it on the road, would love to hear it winding out. Very cool project!:drink:

zZArAZz said:

Wow the engine looks amazing, very nice paint scheme! Looks so clean. Take some videos when you get it on the road, would love to hear it winding out. Very cool project!:drink:

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YUP< YUP and YUP, it is, let him explain the engine color, it's funny.....

:bounce::fishing:

mrvette said:

zZArAZz said:

Wow the engine looks amazing, very nice paint scheme! Looks so clean. Take some videos when you get it on the road, would love to hear it winding out. Very cool project!:drink:

Click to expand...

YUP< YUP and YUP, it is, let him explain the engine color, it's funny.....

:bounce::fishing:

Click to expand...

Thanks! Yeah, it's a funny story that paint....I saw on GEARZ that VHT made a red metalic engine paint. I ordered it, and it's not exactly what I'd call red. More like a salmon or even a puke pink colorprrtt:. I went to the local parts store and found a Duplicolor heat paint that's looks like a red anodized color, or a candy red, so, I took it home and sprayed it on the oil pan over the fugly paint, and really liked it. Then I did the entire engine in the fugly paint, and sprayed it again with the red and that's what I ended up with. :bounce:

I'll definetly take some pics and video when it's running....

Still plug'n away.... Got the Reflectix in the car, the engine bay mostly cleaned up (still have some work to do on the AC air box and the Master Cylinder/brake booster, but it's mostly done and I got the serpentine set up mounted. Had to fabricate the mounting brackets, but it wasn't to bad at all. Thanks BBShark!! I had to cut off a bracket mount that the water pump had on it and open up the elongated holes on the brackets (one on each bracket) to get things to line up, but not bad at all. I used SS hardware to bolt it on and I'm really happy with the way it looks. The A/C compressor is a direct fit to the car's existing system, all I had to do was wire the connectors for the compressor and the alternator to the existing harness and they're good to go. I rebuilt the original power steering pump, the one that came with the serpentine brackets had fluid in it that looked like it'd been under water, so since I had to build it anyway, I decided to build the original one. Not bad at all and only about $12. Now that everything is mounted, all that's left is to align the pulleys and get the right size belt. It looks like the water pump pulley and crank pulley have to come out 1/2". I ordered an aluminum radiator and electric fans. I'm running two 11" fans in a shroud, they're supposed to put out 2800 CFM. Even if they're anywhere close, those with the radiator and flow-kooler high flow water pump should keep things cool, even here in sunny FL!

Once the serpentine belt is on, it's time to start putting the engine/trans back in the car. With any luck at all, I should be able to fire it next weekend, fingers crossed!!!