Jsup and injectors

mrvette

mrvette

Phantom of the Opera
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
15,194
Location
NE Florida
Well John was nice enough to send me a set of 8 for the vette, as some of you may remember, I have had my share of crazy running problems finally culminating in a episode of running outta gas on the freeway ramp a little less than a year ago, and finding about a gallon of water/gas/crap in bottom of the tank, about enough to cover the fuel sock....

I have had my problems with fuel here in Florida....two tank straight away bad some years ago.....fixed that, little known to me is that the problems did not go away, the water/gas issue is much more insidious down here than I ever would think, for the vette anyway.....

SO, in the middle of all this John (Jsup) knowing the full story of the short form above, he still took on the task of sending along a full set of proven/tested/cleaned 24? lbs injectors,

and they run SUPER NICE, just a trip around the block, I can tell a difference in smoothness, lower revving in/out of gear....being a automatic....and smoother idle....I should stick a vac gauge on it, but I remember the readings as being lo but steady...kinda curious over that...need do....

so for the first time in years the thing feels GOOD.....

gotta LOVE 07-08 winter's project, injectors changed in 20 minits....5 bolts, one nut, (shut up, not the nut working on it)......:smash: Went to a LT1 mani/rails on the L98 engine....

John, you do good work, everything was packed well, everyone clean as a pin, the package was such even USPS couldn't drop ship it....

trying to paint the car, engine has been neglected recently, not that it's all super neat looking all the time anyway....

NO JOKES about my friggin' paper clip either...damnit....:smash::cussing:
 

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Very generous of him to send you a free set, those are not cheap!

What type of injector are the new ones?
 
BBShark said:
Very generous of him to send you a free set, those are not cheap!

What type of injector are the new ones?
Click to expand...

I dunno, have to ask John....but they are skinny not fat like the Gm's or the Ford 24's I had in there once...but they appear to have a disc on the bottom...

two O rings on bottom...one on top....fits the GM connectors just fine...

Bosch??? yeh, that's it..

:eek::twitch:
 
Those were Bosch IIIs which were modified to fit. They were 24 lbs. We can modify injectors for applications so you can get better performance at a lower cost.

These are rebuilts. We use the best parts like REAL Bosch baskets 10 micron, and Vitron O-rings, not that cheap Chinese stuff . You'd be surprised how much difference there is between one rebuild and another. The cheap way and the right way. Ask Gene about those other rebuilts he got.

We will be making custom sets, even if you want six of one flow the seventh of another and eighth of yet another, or a custom flow number for all.

I am working on my website, hopefully 2 weeks out. We have about 600 SKUs to date, expect close to 1000 when we're done. over 45,000 applications from marine, to ATVs, Snowmobiles, Jet skis, etc.. Odd ball cars like Vauxhall or Citeron. Basically, if it has an injector we can make it. Mercedes btw, are $250 each. We can rebuild them for $50 retail. Having the knowledge to do this stuff helps keep performance up and price down. No Diesel, yet.

We have new our brand which we build for higher performance, and rebuilt with the lifetime warranty. We also carry brand names such as Bosch, Lucas, Seimans, and Dephi. We can do, don't cringe, foreign cars. We modify for Honda, Mistsu, Mazda, Toyota, Acura, etc..... We can custom build injectors for these applications and sell them much cheaper and provide flow rates up to 225 LBS. OR anything you want.

So we're going all out on this, site is work in progress. It's been a lot of work, and a lot of money, getting injector condoms printed, (you'll see) and all the other bullshit that goes with hit. Just not sitting around hawking crap on internet sites, sitting in the basement under a bare bulb hanging from a wire on the ceiling. We're going to local speed shops and such.

Gene, glad your happy. For the next few weeks before I go commercial, this is the only place I'll sell any for now. Just got my EIN, don't even have a bank acct yet. That's tomorrow. Working hard. The background is done, just the image has to be done.

will be www.injectorsplus.com
 
Last edited:
Jsup said:
Those were Bosch IIIs which were modified to fit. They were 24 lbs. We can modify injectors for applications so you can get better performance at a lower cost.

These are rebuilts. We use the best parts like REAL Bosch baskets 10 micron, and Vitron O-rings, not that cheap Chinese stuff . You'd be surprised how much difference there is between one rebuild and another. The cheap way and the right way. Ask Gene about those other rebuilts he got.

We will be making custom sets, even if you want six of one flow the seventh of another and eighth of yet another, or a custom flow number for all.

I am working on my website, hopefully 2 weeks out. We have about 600 SKUs to date, expect close to 1000 when we're done. over 45,000 applications from marine, to ATVs, Snowmobiles, Jet skis, etc.. Odd ball cars like Vauxhall or Citeron. Basically, if it has an injector we can make it. Mercedes btw, are $250 each. We can rebuild them for $50 retail. Having the knowledge to do this stuff helps keep performance up and price down. No Diesel, yet.

We have new our brand which we build for higher performance, and rebuilt with the lifetime warranty. We also carry brand names such as Bosch, Lucas, Seimans, and Dephi. We can do, don't cringe, foreign cars. We modify for Honda, Mistsu, Mazda, Toyota, Acura, etc..... We can custom build injectors for these applications and sell them much cheaper and provide flow rates up to 225 LBS. OR anything you want.

So we're going all out on this, site is work in progress. It's been a lot of work, and a lot of money, getting injector condoms printed, (you'll see) and all the other bullshit that goes with hit. Just not sitting around hawking crap on internet sites, sitting in the basement under a bare bulb hanging from a wire on the ceiling. We're going to local speed shops and such.

Gene, glad your happy. For the next few weeks before I go commercial, this is the only place I'll sell any for now. Just got my EIN, don't even have a bank acct yet. That's tomorrow. Working hard. The background is done, just the image has to be done.

will be www.injectorsplus.com
Click to expand...

Congrats. I wish you the best of luck.
I barely seem to have time to do the few distributors I do on the side, but I am slowly building my stock up, and turn-around time is shrinking.
 
BBShark said:
Very generous of him to send you a free set, those are not cheap!

What type of injector are the new ones?
Click to expand...

OH, one more thing, not quite FREE, but a good price, especially considering it removes a festering thorn from my gut and knowing/feeling/driving, the injectors are FINE, the thing is EVER so much better....

Tim, that Mexican food is tearing me up, I can't take Salza anymore, too much with the paint fumes.....the combo makes my tummy hurt....waaaaaa.....

:rain::tomato:
 
Gene, I was thinking about what your problem was all along.

Rebuilt injectors have a shelf life. If they are rebuilt with cheap parts and not stored correctly, they get sticky.

I suspect that may have been your problem. If I remember you purchased them from a company that does not do the rebuilding themselves, buys in bulk, and they sit on the shelf.
 
Jsup said:
Gene, I was thinking about what your problem was all along.

Rebuilt injectors have a shelf life. If they are rebuilt with cheap parts and not stored correctly, they get sticky.

I suspect that may have been your problem. If I remember you purchased them from a company that does not do the rebuilding themselves, buys in bulk, and they sit on the shelf.
Click to expand...

Too long a time John, I don't remember, I do remember trying to clean them myself, but that was with that load of water in the tank, already there for quite some time, so any attempts were mainly futile....I know when I put them away they are in a coffee can with that plastic top on it....I will sort through and id some of them, see if you want them, if not, just junk them or sell off the ones with some hope left in them....

having installed a air water separator from harbor freight...30 bux in my air line to do the painting, I wonder if the same gizmo would work for a water trap in the car.....tempting....

:bonkers::goodnight:
 
mrvette said:
Jsup said:
Gene, I was thinking about what your problem was all along.

Rebuilt injectors have a shelf life. If they are rebuilt with cheap parts and not stored correctly, they get sticky.

I suspect that may have been your problem. If I remember you purchased them from a company that does not do the rebuilding themselves, buys in bulk, and they sit on the shelf.
Click to expand...

Too long a time John, I don't remember, I do remember trying to clean them myself, but that was with that load of water in the tank, already there for quite some time, so any attempts were mainly futile....I know when I put them away they are in a coffee can with that plastic top on it....I will sort through and id some of them, see if you want them, if not, just junk them or sell off the ones with some hope left in them....

having installed a air water separator from harbor freight...30 bux in my air line to do the painting, I wonder if the same gizmo would work for a water trap in the car.....tempting....

:bonkers::goodnight:
Click to expand...

The air one will not work for fuel. The way the air one works is with a stone, the stone is cooler than the surrounding air, it condenses the water and keeps it in a bowl.

What you need is one of these, just make sure get the right flow rate.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...RL=true&storeNum=6&subdeptNum=68&classNum=219
 
Jsup said:
mrvette said:
Jsup said:
Gene, I was thinking about what your problem was all along.

Rebuilt injectors have a shelf life. If they are rebuilt with cheap parts and not stored correctly, they get sticky.

I suspect that may have been your problem. If I remember you purchased them from a company that does not do the rebuilding themselves, buys in bulk, and they sit on the shelf.
Click to expand...

Too long a time John, I don't remember, I do remember trying to clean them myself, but that was with that load of water in the tank, already there for quite some time, so any attempts were mainly futile....I know when I put them away they are in a coffee can with that plastic top on it....I will sort through and id some of them, see if you want them, if not, just junk them or sell off the ones with some hope left in them....

having installed a air water separator from harbor freight...30 bux in my air line to do the painting, I wonder if the same gizmo would work for a water trap in the car.....tempting....

:bonkers::goodnight:
Click to expand...

The air one will not work for fuel. The way the air one works is with a stone, the stone is cooler than the surrounding air, it condenses the water and keeps it in a bowl.

What you need is one of these, just make sure get the right flow rate.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...RL=true&storeNum=6&subdeptNum=68&classNum=219
Click to expand...

Shit, figgers, not enough GPH for a DPFI setup with all the return, to boot have it on the suck end of the frame mounted pump....always something....I was thinking on the pressure end if the cups would hold gas, but then I see the througput rating....surely that is exceeded 40 psi flowing like mad certainly exceeds those ratings.....

:crap:
 
mrvette said:
Shit, figgers, not enough GPH for a DPFI setup with all the return, to boot have it on the suck end of the frame mounted pump....always something....I was thinking on the pressure end if the cups would hold gas, but then I see the througput rating....surely that is exceeded 40 psi flowing like mad certainly exceeds those ratings.....

:crap:
Click to expand...

There has to be a I/O fuel/water separator for EFI boats. My last boat was a 7.4l Merc w/EFI and never had fuel flow rate problems with that. WOT for 20-30 min at a time.
 
BBShark said:
mrvette said:
Shit, figgers, not enough GPH for a DPFI setup with all the return, to boot have it on the suck end of the frame mounted pump....always something....I was thinking on the pressure end if the cups would hold gas, but then I see the througput rating....surely that is exceeded 40 psi flowing like mad certainly exceeds those ratings.....

:crap:
Click to expand...

There has to be a I/O fuel/water separator for EFI boats. My last boat was a 7.4l Merc w/EFI and never had fuel flow rate problems with that. WOT for 20-30 min at a time.
Click to expand...

HUMM....well, maybe a visit to West Marine is in order....have two fuel filters on there now...pair a noids.....

:flash::goodnight:
 
Gene. Fuel pumps for my car are measured in LITERS per hour. My high output for example is 255 LPH. These marine pumps are measured in GALLONS per hour. My 255 pump would be about 55 GPH. Seems the ones on that link are more than adequet
 
guru said:
55gph at what pressure?
Click to expand...

IF I go that route, and that's not a given, since I put a locking gas cap on there just recently....I was thiking of the cheapest unit with plastic canister...on the suction side of the pump so pressure would not be a issue for the unit to handle...also, it would act as kind of a sump, no?? not a very large one, but something, where now there is nothing....

I also want to be able to see at a glance if that thing has water in it....and drain it out....

BUT, the large mystery to ME is....the Escort and so far for a couple months now, the Miata, and even the neighbors have NO problems with water in the gas, only my vette, so, the question is WHY?? so that is the locking gas cap possible solution....

:stirpot:
 
Last edited:
guru said:
55gph at what pressure?
Click to expand...

Pressure is one thing, depends on teh size of the injectors too. I have 42LB

Gene has 24.

So I'm running 45 since I have the high volume pump. When the vacuum drops goes to about 55. On much bigger injectors.
 
Well the flow advertised on the box is typically free flow, but flow declines from there. So you could be flowing like 30 GPH at 40 psi.

Just something i have picked up.
 
guru said:
Well the flow advertised on the box is typically free flow, but flow declines from there. So you could be flowing like 30 GPH at 40 psi.

Just something i have picked up.
Click to expand...

Jake, DPFI has a return line from the regulator, which is vacuum operated to help with tip in stumble/etc as it increases pressure....problem is the return line it control always has a lot of gas circulation, and that is what I think of...how long would it take to totally circulate my 18 gallons of gas in the Vette?? IF it's about a hour with engine running, great, fine ok....but that return line puts out a strong piss stream....in my fights with this problem I even tried sticking the return into a gas can....about 1/2 filled in just a minit....

:amazed:
 
mrvette said:
guru said:
55gph at what pressure?
Click to expand...

IF I go that route, and that's not a given, since I put a locking gas cap on there just recently....I was thiking of the cheapest unit with plastic canister...on the suction side of the pump so pressure would not be a issue for the unit to handle...also, it would act as kind of a sump, no?? not a very large one, but something, where now there is nothing....

I also want to be able to see at a glance if that thing has water in it....and drain it out....

BUT, the large mystery to ME is....the Escort and so far for a couple months now, the Miata, and even the neighbors have NO problems with water in the gas, only my vette, so, the question is WHY?? so that is the locking gas cap possible solution....

:stirpot:
Click to expand...

I remember your posts on that a while back.

The other day I stopped for gas and they were replacing one of the storage tanks, so I quizzed the boss. Here we are at an average of 10 ft above sea level so a good part of the tanks sit in water.
About water in the tanks, he said that they install elaborate de-watering systems in the tanks now because of the 10% ethanol (which absorbs water and has a tendancy to keep it suspended. Some locations even install ground de-watering systems.
They also install special water separating filters. When first switching over to the 10% gas, there were a lot of problems because the new gas tended to wash the existing tanks and suspend all the junk including water.
He said that, if any station doesn't maintain the system properly, you will have water problems.
The new tanks here are fiberglass, but there must be a special liner because glass isn't waterproof. Didn't ask about that.

Maybe you can consider installing a petcock for draining the water like they do in aircraft tanks.
then again your problem may have been a 1 time situation.
 
010752 said:
mrvette said:
guru said:
55gph at what pressure?
Click to expand...

IF I go that route, and that's not a given, since I put a locking gas cap on there just recently....I was thiking of the cheapest unit with plastic canister...on the suction side of the pump so pressure would not be a issue for the unit to handle...also, it would act as kind of a sump, no?? not a very large one, but something, where now there is nothing....

I also want to be able to see at a glance if that thing has water in it....and drain it out....

BUT, the large mystery to ME is....the Escort and so far for a couple months now, the Miata, and even the neighbors have NO problems with water in the gas, only my vette, so, the question is WHY?? so that is the locking gas cap possible solution....

:stirpot:
Click to expand...

I remember your posts on that a while back.

The other day I stopped for gas and they were replacing one of the storage tanks, so I quizzed the boss. Here we are at an average of 10 ft above sea level so a good part of the tanks sit in water.
About water in the tanks, he said that they install elaborate de-watering systems in the tanks now because of the 10% ethanol (which absorbs water and has a tendancy to keep it suspended. Some locations even install ground de-watering systems.
They also install special water separating filters. When first switching over to the 10% gas, there were a lot of problems because the new gas tended to wash the existing tanks and suspend all the junk including water.
He said that, if any station doesn't maintain the system properly, you will have water problems.
The new tanks here are fiberglass, but there must be a special liner because glass isn't waterproof. Didn't ask about that.

Maybe you can consider installing a petcock for draining the water like they do in aircraft tanks.
then again your problem may have been a 1 time situation.
Click to expand...

Noonie, when I first moved here 12 years ago, I mostly always drove the vette, still do....and never with any other car did I have the problem...the work truck when I was busy burning 35 gallon tanks full in a week did not ever have any problem 3/4 ton lwb Dodge window van '85 318 2bbl......I think that thing would run if I pissed in the tank....

the other cars have never had much of a problem, or not so sensitive to the water problems.....the vette had the unfortunate to get TWO separate doses of water in the gas....first one at the local BP, about a year+ later at the Shell.....

then some time later came this irregular idle thing....drove me crazy for the longest time.....don't forget many other projects were under way and were more interesting to me....but that nagging crap idle kept bugging me....

so Jsup's injectors have smoothed it out a LOT, it's not perfect yet, but damn close, and mucho better than in a LONG time.....got a locking gascap on it now....

so I guess I got some water on fill up and somehow it combined to form that crap sludge in the tank bottom and set there just about burrying the sock....allowing just enough fuel through to run the engine, but enough water/shit to give a shitty idle and ruin injectors fast as I"d put them in....

I have no other conclusions to draw at this time....

and YES a water separator is going into the lines, and yes, maybe a petcock also to drain that fucker....maybe that's the best way to go, that way I can see if any water comes out...

should call this joint the WATER state.....

:crap::gurney:
 
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