Ball joints and bullshit......some questions.....

mrvette

mrvette

Phantom of the Opera
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
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OK, in some 18 years and maybe 100k miles, my '72 is on it's 4th set of upper AND lower joints, got some questions about the internal construction of the joints....the guys jack up the lower A arm and so grab the tire this AM at like a 7-1 position, then grab at 11-5 position....and they checking upper and lower joints, and I seen the play myself...maybe up to 1/4 inch.....

so fine, I noted similar shit from the tire shop...I watched it there....

both operations said they worn out....

NOW, when tearing it all down today, I noted the joints appeared perfectly tight outta the car...great tension on moving the ball in the socket, as if it was new...

so the question is....what is the internal construction of the things, and is there any spring or compression device in there???

MY imagination says it's just a round ball with a stem on it, and enclosed in a steel outer casing, BUT are my thoughts correct???

the old joints flexed like the new ones, in other words, but not under the suspension or being jacked up to wiggle the tire....

SO WTF is going on here....you guys know....:hunter:
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
to quote a fake pirate, it's all about leveridge
Click to expand...

IF There is some spring device in there I understand your comment....but just why would there BE one???

something funny going on, I dunno I being ripped off or not, seem strange about the odd reactions, lifting the tires by hand on one thing, other pace using a lever, and me using a lever here.....

I got less reaction then they did, but still looked loose.....

so how in hell the joints feel tight when outta the car????


:club::hunter:
 
when you pull and push grabbing the unsupported wheel at 7-1 o'clock you feel the play in the steering, whatever there is, also wheel bearing play.... I doubt that's a good method to nail it down to the ball joints.
Now, if the joints are REALLY shot then yes.....

anyways, how does it feel with the new joints installed ?

did you hear clonking noises with the old joints? I'd say if it doens't make noises the joints are still good....

drove my Z28 to 140k miles on the stock joints, GF's car has 107k miles on the first set of factory ball joints, Co-worker has 155k miles on his Lexus, he bought the car new so that's 155K on one owner and still the first set of ball joints....

no idea why yours don't last..... :clobbered:

maybe take a cutting wheel to the old joints and do some "surgery" ???? would be interessting photos ;)
 
Like you imagined, it is just a round ball with grease grooves and a stem sitting in a outer socket.
 
Jack under the control arm, raise the tire off the ground. Stick a bar under the tire and lift. Watch the distance between the lower arm and the knuckle. If it changes, the ball joint is bad. For the upper, pry between the upper arm and the frame. Any other method will give you a false indication. Lots of front end alignment guys make loads of money changing ball joints that are completely serviceable.
GM ball joints have an indicator built into them- if the grease fitting on the bottom is sticking out more than 1/8" the joint is done.
 
Tim, methinks a 'road improvement' project here locally on the main feeder road....Arora.....you maybe been here a couple times, anyway they did the road over and installed FOUR series of essentially 2x4 size what they call rumble strips.....and THREE sections to every strip....GUARANTEED to bust hell out of any car suspension....

and SO, I am not paying my property taxes this year, the mother fuckers try to collect, they find out the HARD way....

I found another way around the shit....and use it NOW, but no way in hell those strips are not killing everyone's car, people forced to slow down to less than 5 mph and I"m talking SUV's.......

wish I had access to a road scraper, and just clear the road one night.....

eff em forever.....I gearing up for a fight down in the county .gov over this bullshit....

much less how they design and control traffic, think it was a bunch of nazis.....curbs stuck out where thousands of pounds of tires are left as evidence of stupid design....

you seen this absurd construction at Blanding and 295 you would shit bricks.....yeh, stimulate THIS, such lack of intelligence in the .gov circles is just impossible to imagine......

I could draw maybe 3 lines on a map, and get that job done for 10% of the money.....seriously....dead serious.....

I wooden even give a shit about them being socialist, but does the .gov have to BE SO FUCKING STUPID????


:gurney:
 
12 years ago I worked at Moog Automotive and we made ball joints among other suspension components. There is no spring in the joint just a cupped bearing that the ball of the stem sits in. Here is the thing, the components that make up the bearing are made from different materials. This alone makes the joint last a long time or have a shorter life. The stem that you see sticking out of the ball joint has a round ball on the opposite end. A bearing that is split like a basketball cut in half is slipped over the stem and the other half is laid in the cup. A plate is put on the end of the housing, pressed together and either induction welded or is spun and creates a lip sealing the housing. Tests are made to check the tightness of the joint on each and every one. So a cheep joint has cheep bearings and a expensive joint has better bearings. I have seen joints with plastic bearings and joints with steel compound bearings. These are not ball bearings but a full contact cup type bearing. Now that you are all confused ill throw this in, in order to compete Moog makes both types of ball joints. If I were to buy any brand I would research and find out if they offer different part numbers and if so contact the manufacture to ask what the difference is. :stirpot:Mark
 
marks76ray said:
12 years ago I worked at Moog Automotive and we made ball joints among other suspension components. There is no spring in the joint just a cupped bearing that the ball of the stem sits in. Here is the thing, the components that make up the bearing are made from different materials. This alone makes the joint last a long time or have a shorter life. The stem that you see sticking out of the ball joint has a round ball on the opposite end. A bearing that is split like a basketball cut in half is slipped over the stem and the other half is laid in the cup. A plate is put on the end of the housing, pressed together and either induction welded or is spun and creates a lip sealing the housing. Tests are made to check the tightness of the joint on each and every one. So a cheep joint has cheep bearings and a expensive joint has better bearings. I have seen joints with plastic bearings and joints with steel compound bearings. These are not ball bearings but a full contact cup type bearing. Now that you are all confused ill throw this in, in order to compete Moog makes both types of ball joints. If I were to buy any brand I would research and find out if they offer different part numbers and if so contact the manufacture to ask what the difference is. :stirpot:Mark
Click to expand...

Mark, I gave up and put in NAPA joints, I could not see spending 2-3x the price for MOOG, as I did last time....I have a suspicion about what is going on here, :hissyfit: So replaced all 4 of them and got it aligned....

:gurney::drink:
 
Here's the MOOG joint I bought for my next front suspension rebuild/upgrade .... especially the upper joints look quiet different than the typical parts store joints.... that said, I'm currently using Duralast (Brute force) joints and they're fine.....

100_3436small.jpg
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100_3439small.jpg
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MYBAD79 said:
Here's the MOOG joint I bought for my next front suspension rebuild/upgrade .... especially the upper joints look quiet different than the typical parts store joints.... that said, I'm currently using Duralast (Brute force) joints and they're fine.....

100_3436small.jpg
.
100_3439small.jpg
.
Click to expand...

I dunno man, those plastic packs look I FREEDING DENTICAL to what I just put in, different box, it was yellow/black/white.....

but the joints look the same, of course....

:chinese::crutches:
 
CarQuest sells (or at least used to sell) Moog chassis parts in their own CQ boxes. Generally cheaper than Moog-branded parts, too. That said, I have to agree with the posts above that if you're chewing up ball joints that quickly you have other issues that need to be addressed.
 
MYBAD79 said:
Here's the MOOG joint I bought for my next front suspension rebuild/upgrade .... especially the upper joints look quiet different than the typical parts store joints.... that said, I'm currently using Duralast (Brute force) joints and they're fine.....

.
Click to expand...

is there a number stamped into the end of the stud on the Moog lower ball joints??
 
Here at technical inspection they put the car on a pad under which there is a mechanisme that slides side ways on both wheels at the same time. The inspector looks from under the car at the BJ and looks if there is some movement.

Movement at the wheels imo is no indication of BJ problem. Have someone do it with you under the car and watch the BJ's
 
Belgian1979vette said:
Here at technical inspection they put the car on a pad under which there is a mechanisme that slides side ways on both wheels at the same time. The inspector looks from under the car at the BJ and looks if there is some movement.
Click to expand...

i remember that .... LOL

there was never any real "criteria" ... if the inspector had a bad dy he would not let you pass..... you return a few days later to a different inspector and you'd pass..... at least in good ole Germany :)
 
MYBAD79 said:
Belgian1979vette said:
Here at technical inspection they put the car on a pad under which there is a mechanisme that slides side ways on both wheels at the same time. The inspector looks from under the car at the BJ and looks if there is some movement.
Click to expand...

i remember that .... LOL

there was never any real "criteria" ... if the inspector had a bad dy he would not let you pass..... you return a few days later to a different inspector and you'd pass..... at least in good ole Germany :)
Click to expand...

Not very different these days.
 
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