Concerned about my Borgeson Steering box

[denpo]

As I'm approaching the time I fire the engine back to life, I'd like some details about my steering setup I'd like to clear out.
I have a Borgeson steering box, that underwent a return to factory due to improper pitman arm installation. So it's supposed to have been double checked by the guy at Borgeson.

First concern is alignement.
I aligned my steering column, using flasher return mechanism, I ended up with the flat spot in the column shaft pointing a 12:00, which sounds logical.
When I align this flat spot with the screw on the U-joint and connect to U joint to the steering box, the whole setup is misaligned by a 1/8 of a turn.
I still have to check the wheel geometry, but I doubts it could account for such a large misalignement.

Second is steering box operation
Hoses are connected, but the box is not filled nor under pressure yet. When I try to turn the wheels, I got a huge slack in the steering, and the slack is from the steering box itself. I'd say 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn before the box start transmitting the steering wheel shaft motion to the pitman arm.
I though the steering box would retain a solid connection between column shaft and pitman arm motion, power assisting only easing the motion.

Any remark/comment are welcome.

 

[mrvette]

Do you have a NEW rag joint?? it's that black rubber disc about 3" diameter in the steering input set up....

you can check this yourself, have someone rock the wheel back/forth while you put your finger tips along the surface of the shafts and couplings, and shine a light down there if you can't.....IF the box is loose and you are cock sure of that, you maybe play with the engagement bolt that pulls the sector gear up tighter to the worm input gear....it MAY be outta adjustment, but when you do this, you have to have the wheels off the ground, because you are going to run the steering from lock to lock, feeling really carefully for ANY tightness in those gears, if they bind, you need back off on the adjustment.....sorry I forget which a way to turn the screw, once you loosen the jamb nut.....pay attention to where it was when you started, you should not need more than 1/4 maybe 1/2 turn to snug it up, any more than that you have worn gears, I would think.....make damn sure you not have a loose output arm with that BIG NUT on the bottom....also make damn sure your tie rod ends are totally tight....also check that stud that goes into the large connecting link for ANY play.....that bitch has to be 100% snug.....also check the steering idler arm on the pass side of frame, the equivalent of the steering box, to that cross link....

1/4 turn MAY be fixed by adjusting the tie rod lengths....

and so if your car had power steering before, they sold you an adaptor for the long heavy bar, replace that antiquated valve...what you need is make damn sure it's screwed onto the bar correctly, that maybe well explain the off center wheel.....in fact....maybe try THAT first.....


:surrender::quote:

 

[denpo]

Do you have a NEW rag joint?? it's that black rubber disc about 3" diameter in the steering input set up....

While I also had the rag joint at first, I opted for a solid U-joint.

you can check this yourself, have someone rock the wheel back/forth while you put your finger tips along the surface of the shafts and couplings, and shine a light down there if you can't.....IF the box is loose and you are cock sure of that, you maybe play with the engagement bolt that pulls the sector gear up tighter to the worm input gear....it MAY be outta adjustment, but when you do this, you have to have the wheels off the ground, because you are going to run the steering from lock to lock, feeling really carefully for ANY tightness in those gears, if they bind, you need back off on the adjustment.....sorry I forget which a way to turn the screw, once you loosen the jamb nut.....pay attention to where it was when you started, you should not need more than 1/4 maybe 1/2 turn to snug it up, any more than that you have worn gears, I would think.....make damn sure you not have a loose output arm with that BIG NUT on the bottom....also make damn sure your tie rod ends are totally tight....also check that stud that goes into the large connecting link for ANY play.....that bitch has to be 100% snug.....also check the steering idler arm on the pass side of frame, the equivalent of the steering box, to that cross link....

That's the very test I made, no play whatsoever in the column nor the U-joint, all the play is from the box.
I also thought about the sharft engagement, because that why I had to send the box back to them. The pitman was kinda low on the shaft, so the newbie I was tried to press push the arm into the shaft, breaking the top cover where the engagement screw is. I assumed when they put a new cover they did check it out.

1/4 turn MAY be fixed by adjusting the tie rod lengths....

Ok then

and so if your car had power steering before, they sold you an adaptor for the long heavy bar, replace that antiquated valve...what you need is make damn sure it's screwed onto the bar correctly, that maybe well explain the off center wheel.....in fact....maybe try THAT first.....


:surrender::quote:

Good call, I'll check this out.

 

[DC3]

Get in touch with Jim Shea and ask him to send you his steering papers. He goes by JimL82 on this forum and by Jim Shea on the "other" forum.

I had misalignment issues with my '73 and his papers along with one or two emails to him cleared everything up. After getting everything else lined up correctly, the last step was (as Gene suggested) to adjust the tie rod ends to center the steering wheel. The only minor issue I still have is that someone at one time disassembled my steering column and re-assembled it with the upper and lower sections 180 degrees apart. It doesn't hurt anything and I'll fix it someday when there is a need to take the column apart but I had to take that into account when aligning everything.

DC

 

[BBShark]

You are not the first to be concerned about a slop issue. The guy at CF that built his own R&P went through 2 Borgeson boxes and gave up. Something is wrong there.

 

[denpo]

Get in touch with Jim Shea and ask him to send you his steering papers. He goes by JimL82 on this forum and by Jim Shea on the "other" forum.

I had misalignment issues with my '73 and his papers along with one or two emails to him cleared everything up. After getting everything else lined up correctly, the last step was (as Gene suggested) to adjust the tie rod ends to center the steering wheel. The only minor issue I still have is that someone at one time disassembled my steering column and re-assembled it with the upper and lower sections 180 degrees apart. It doesn't hurt anything and I'll fix it someday when there is a need to take the column apart but I had to take that into account when aligning everything.

DC

I extensively studied Jim's papers for my column rebuild, and thus pretty confident everything is lined up from steering wheel to column shaft.
By the way, doesn't installing the shaft 180° prevent the release turn signal mechanism to function?
I didn't thing tie rod could account/compensate for such misaligment, you guys proved me wrong.

I can wiggle the steering wheel and hear some mechanical "clings" in the box. It may match Gene's mis-engaged sector gear hypothesis.
However, that would mean guys at Borgeson did a rather sloppy inspection.
I'm gonna ask them.

You are not the first to be concerned about a slop issue. The guy at CF that built his own R&P went through 2 Borgeson boxes and gave up. Something is wrong there.

Larry, you may remember a post I made years ago about my pitman arm not engaging sufficiently into the shaft, well, when I sent them the box for fixing the cover I asked them to have a look at this. All they said that the shaft was within their tolerance.
I'm missing maybe a quarter of a turn for the pitman arm bolt to get flush to the shaft. Should be fine with proper torquing, lock washer and red locite but still I would have liked it to fit like stock box did.

 

[mrvette]

Neighbor next door had a friend from the Philippians, who bought a used jacked up Chevy pickup, had an alternator problem....so I went over there and drove it home, being followed by my neighbor....

I noticed the steering was VERY loose, I mean like 1/2 a turn loose.....

I get under there and that damn pitman arm was about 1/2 a turn looser on the huge nut, the arm would have fallen off the shaft.....

I about shit bricks seeing that....needless to say that was fixed first thing, what a bitch to get to, too boot....hate working on other peoples' cars....hard enough holding my own shit together.....:crap:

 

[DC3]

By the way, doesn't installing the shaft 180° prevent the release turn signal mechanism to function?

My turn signal functions properly. Everything up top is correct, it's the lower shaft that is 180 out where it connects to the upper shaft at the yokes.

DC

 

[denpo]

By the way, doesn't installing the shaft 180° prevent the release turn signal mechanism to function?

My turn signal functions properly. Everything up top is correct, it's the lower shaft that is 180 out where it connects to the upper shaft at the yokes.

DC

I see

 

[Sam Cogley]

I can wiggle the steering wheel and hear some mechanical "clings" in the box. It may match Gene's mis-engaged sector gear hypothesis.
However, that would mean guys at Borgeson did a rather sloppy inspection.
I'm gonna ask them.

That's something I've never noticed with my junkyard Borgeson box. It's quite tight, responsive and quiet.

 

[Belgian1979vette]

I've been pondering improving the steering system, since I don't like the way the Original behaves. I was thinking about a Borgeson, but this really has me doubting.

 

[mrvette]

I've been pondering improving the steering system, since I don't like the way the Original behaves. I was thinking about a Borgeson, but this really has me doubting.

I dunno how you all get over with it over there.....all the damn shipping, taxes, duties, and crap.....jeebus man...you all caught in the middle :tomato::tomato::cussing:

 

[denpo]

I've been pondering improving the steering system, since I don't like the way the Original behaves. I was thinking about a Borgeson, but this really has me doubting.

I still got to send Borgeson an email about all this, right now I'm having a urge to bodywork I need to use up, because when I haven't, sanding sucks.

To their defense, there is very few people complaining out there and so far they support service just did the right thing.

 

[denpo]

Finally mailed Borgeson tech support.
Took them less than a couple of minute to answer back.

Concerning the misalignement:
Basically they can't promess you the box will align with the flat on the steering column, and you may have to file another flat to get the whole assembly aligned.

Concerning the slack:
In their FAQ they say you just can't expect the box to feel tigth unless pressurised.

 

[Frankenvette]

Just finished installing the Borgeson box and fired my vette up for the first time this weekend. Had similar concerns about slop before starting. Once started everything was fine. And yes they mention this in one of their tech support bulletin.

I did not file another flat spot. In speaking with Borgeson they said this is not mandatory and only neccessary if alignment issue. I had none. The only thing I'm dealing with after first start up are hoses leaking at the box.