Frame swap, here we go!

denpo

denpo

Carburated Nihilist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
2,522
Location
Montreal, QC
That's it, I just pulled the trigger.
I've been fixing my first Vette for 3 month now (electric headlight, interior restoration, borgeson steering box, unmessing previous owners booba works)
I decided to make my introduction post lie.
I found a undamaged, unrusted, POR-15ed bare frame at such a price I couldn't let it go.
Checked the space left in my 1-car garage, yup, that would fit, well, if I tear down a couple of shelves :smash:
So here I am, with a frame swap project for my long and cold Quebec winter.
Before the vette, I was quiet a newby in car stuff, but the virus is spreading fast, very fast. Plus I discovered a old guys running an old-school metal shop who seems more interested into making custom parts right rather than getting rich.
So here I am, gentlemen, preparing myself for a hell of a task, with your help I hope.

Of course while I'm at it, I want to renew all what comes with the frame.
I'm lucky, the engine and transmission are already freshly remade and in better-than-stock state. On the other end, all the suspension bushings are as old as the car, the frame bushings gone, engine mount destroyed, and nasty play in the wheels. I guess that comes with the disturbingly big rust hole in the rear wheel arch that made me looking for a new frame in the first place.

I already checked forum threads (mainly here) and articles, and I'm looking for all kind of advice for my endeavor.

Tools:
What are the tools I would need, already looking for a hoist, frame lift straps and tube flaring/bending tools.

Furniture
What kind of bushing I would need ? I feel like going for full polyurethane except the rear arm where it looks like rubber is more adequate.
Also looking to upgrade my suspension.
My budget is tight, I'm aiming a making the car fun an safe to drive, not a racetrack beast. I grew up I the Alps, so straight and flat road are not real men's road to me :devil: it should better corner well.
What kind of supplier I found buy/not buy from? How to spot china knockoffs from good quality parts?

Hacking
What kind of improvement could I make to the frame, I checked a pdf of Chevy Power and thinking about a spreader bar.

I know it's a hell lot of questions, probably reflecting the level of excitement I'm in :clap::bounce:, I crave pardon in advance.

Hey, wait, I moved from "newbie" status to "member", woohoo, Champagne Messieurs :drink:
 
Denpo....you done opened up a whole can of worms on suspension mods there....IMO...stick with rubber and MOOG for the wear parts...Rockauto seems to have them.....we get site/member discounts from time to time....

I too recommend the front spreader bar, but the exact item varies about engine, and fan you are running, electric fans make it easy, otherwise that mechanical may interfere with the support....VBP makes a decent one, it's on my car for years now....helps a LOT with handling....

I have adjustable rear struts too, but really not much to say there, IF the stock struts have GOOD bushings....

go for VBP 460 front springs, and 360 rear plastic spring....and Bilstein shocks...

that is the combo I now have, and it's the best the car has ever been....

my front sway bar is less than 1" dia, rear is stock 9/16?

this is a very general comment as pertains to my car alone,, the largest variation is in the tires, of course....so those determine more than most any suspension mods....IMO....


:bounce: course one thing to remember, the tallest hill on this sandbar is only 300' elevation....seriously....300'....

:quote::goodevil:
 
Well...just dive right in!

Sounds like you want a good handling street car. Knowing what you want to end up with is a good start.

I look forward to seeing your project.
 
Wooah...this is moving fast. You didn't mention the birdcage condition and with a bad frame that should be inspected. If you have a good frame and not planning on cutting tight corners, no need for spreader bars of anything beyond stock. New bushings and related suspension parts will do fine, unless you have deep pockets and want to go for it. Original parts work well after sandblasting, paint and bushings etc. Besides, if you like playing with the car, you will want to complete upgrades in the future and as the budget allows. On the other hand, if you want to lean on it in the future, you can do suspension upgrades now and upgrade the driveline as the budget allows. Decisions, decisions!!

If the engine has a good bottom end, it is relatively easy to change intake and heads in the future. Good luck with your new project!
BTW...if you are careful you can find good used parts online. Careful is key and ask plenty of questions, don't ask me how I know. If you bought the frame I saw over there, you got one helluva a deal. I was tempted to buy it myself and I don't need another frame right now.
 
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Red said:
Wooah...this is moving fast. You didn't mention the birdcage condition and with a bad frame that should be inspected. If you have a good frame and not planning on cutting tight corners, no need for spreader bars of anything beyond stock. New bushings and related suspension parts will do fine, unless you have deep pockets and want to go for it. Original parts work well after sandblasting, paint and bushings etc. Besides, if you like playing with the car, you will want to complete upgrades in the future and as the budget allows. On the other hand, if you want to lean on it in the future, you can do suspension upgrades now and upgrade the driveline as the budget allows. Decisions, decisions!!

If the engine has a good bottom end, it is relatively easy to change intake and heads in the future. Good luck with your new project!
BTW...if you are careful you can find good used parts online. Careful is key and ask plenty of questions, don't ask me how I know. If you bought the frame I saw over there, you got one helluva a deal. I was tempted to buy it myself and I don't need another frame right now.
Click to expand...
Since I alreday completely remove the interior once, I know the birdcage is in fair state, the windshield frame has sign of welding, the rust issues here have already been fixed. The back has the usual I-never-washed-my-wheel-arches problem. The previous owner poured 20k$+ in an complete engine/tranny rebuilt, he wanted to show off at drag races, not really caring if the car would break in two, he just wanted it to push badly. Transmission for instance have been rebuilt withstand 500bhp+.
He left me all the bills, all paid in cash, I suspect some kind of taxe evasion : by a crappy vette, put a monster in it, race a few time and then sell it at a fraction of the invested cash.
A good friend of mine contracted the virus too, after seeing my Vette he bought a BWM 328 (E36, the good old ones), and now he's dumping his job at his wood shop to attend body work studies. I guess I know who I gonna get free paint job from next year :bounce:

Spreader bar? it's barely 50$ worth of material and a couple of hour of metal cutting/welding, I call it a good bang for the bucks.

I always get some kind of pride doing stuff at the fraction of the expected price, some call it being cheap, I call it DIYing.
 
Check a bunch of thread, I think I'll go the johnny joint way for the arms, not that complicated and extremely well documented.
 
looking forward to the photos.
Body mounts: the poly mounts are a lot cheaper and since these are only carrying the body I don't see any advantage in using rubber - maybe a little quieter.... I am happy with the poly body mounts on my '79. The stock rubber mounts were deteriorated so almost anything would have been an improvement...

Poly is fine for the front control arms, for the rear you're better off with rubber or the Johnny Joints.

enjoy the winter :D
 
Yeah, I'm preparing my shopping and I went to the same conclusion, much cheaper to go poly.
Questions:
-is it ok to use poly motor mount?
-Bilstein shocks are all the rage, any decent alternative?

Rear arms will have Johnny Joint for sure. Moog for the ball joint, I won't mess with that.
All those body bracket are damn expensive, I mean, 50 buck for a simple piece of metal probably made in China for 1 of 2$ ... I think that I can at least fabricate the #4 body mount bracket and the seatbelt shoulder reinforcement.

So far so good, the electric headlight actuator mod, the gauges white face, the led interior lights and the borgeson steering upgrade seems to work fine :yahoo:

I've made a lot of debugging in the harness wiring, the interior light is back,believe me, I could read "bubba was here" all along the wires :amazed:

I'm trailing the frame back to Canada this Sunday, and I'll start posting picture of the process.
My garage is so small I'll have to keep the body above the old frame during the swap, I'll bolt wood beam to the walls to support it, it's gonna be fun.

Turns out I'm the living proof that a video game programmer can morph into a decent mechanic in a couple of months :1st:


PS:
FYI, here are the led I bought
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320491049124
"L-1104 BA9S SMD WHITE LED LIGHT"
very cheap, very bright, they took only 5 days to arrive, I recommend them.
 
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I got mine for 1$ each, in pack of 20, shipping included. Their are SMD (surface mounted), the one with the regular leds simply aren't bright enough. The light is blindingly bright, no heat at all. I'll try to post pictures of them this weekend.
 
denpo said:
I got mine for 1$ each, in pack of 20, shipping included. Their are SMD (surface mounted), the one with the regular leds simply aren't bright enough. The light is blindingly bright, no heat at all. I'll try to post pictures of them this weekend.
Click to expand...

OH, so 20 bux for a PACK of 20, I was looking for the quantity and somehow I missed that....looked to me as if it was 20 bux EACH.....

so that's a good steal....some guyz don't need a gun...such a deal....

:club:
 
denpo said:
Yeah, I'm preparing my shopping and I went to the same conclusion, much cheaper to go poly.
Questions:
-is it ok to use poly motor mount?

They're "advertized" to be stronger than rubber but transfer vibrations into the frame and thru the body into your butt.... I'm happy with my poly engine mounts - vibrations are not all that bad, appearently they did a good when they balanced my engine (rotating assembly)

-Bilstein shocks are all the rage, any decent alternative?
yes , Koni... they are more expensive but maybe more than you need.... Bilstein shocks are less than $300 for the set: best bang for the buck. KYB is junk IMO, might be acceptable as a stock replacement but then you might as well get some Monroes or Delcos at the local parts store....

All those body bracket are damn expensive, I mean, 50 buck for a simple piece of metal probably made in China for 1 of 2$ ... I think that I can at least fabricate the #4 body mount bracket and the seatbelt shoulder reinforcement.
Fabricating brackets is no big deal - if you have the tools
Click to expand...

.......................
 
I've got a set of rear C3 Bilsteins that I don't use now that I changed over to a C4 suspension in the '69. Probably 10k miles on them. (I had Konis on the front.)

PM me if you're interested.
 
MYBAD79 said:
denpo said:
Yeah, I'm preparing my shopping and I went to the same conclusion, much cheaper to go poly.
Questions:
-is it ok to use poly motor mount?

They're "advertized" to be stronger than rubber but transfer vibrations into the frame and thru the body into your butt.... I'm happy with my poly engine mounts - vibrations are not all that bad, appearently they did a good when they balanced my engine (rotating assembly)

-Bilstein shocks are all the rage, any decent alternative?
yes , Koni... they are more expensive but maybe more than you need.... Bilstein shocks are less than $300 for the set: best bang for the buck. KYB is junk IMO, might be acceptable as a stock replacement but then you might as well get some Monroes or Delcos at the local parts store....

All those body bracket are damn expensive, I mean, 50 buck for a simple piece of metal probably made in China for 1 of 2$ ... I think that I can at least fabricate the #4 body mount bracket and the seatbelt shoulder reinforcement.
Fabricating brackets is no big deal - if you have the tools
Click to expand...

.......................
Click to expand...

:cool: What he said, matches my experience/opinion right on....:wink:
 
1Michel said:
If you want to mod the rear suspension, this is pretty interesting.

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3126
Click to expand...

I've seen this thread, and it pretty was the landmark for where I would stop. Way too complex for me.
I've checked the pictures you posted, powder coating, homemade jeep steering box, welding here and there, I'm really impressed.
I'm a freaking amateur compared to your skills.
Since we're almost neighbor, I'll have to come by your place one of these days to check out your mechanist lair, it looks awesome.
 
denpo said:
1Michel said:
If you want to mod the rear suspension, this is pretty interesting.

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3126
Click to expand...

I've seen this thread, and it pretty was the landmark for where I would stop. Way too complex for me.
I've checked the pictures you posted, powder coating, homemade jeep steering box, welding here and there, I'm really impressed.
I'm a freaking amateur compared to your skills.
Since we're almost neighbor, I'll have to come by your place one of these days to check out your mechanist lair, it looks awesome.
Click to expand...


My skills? geez I had to redo everythng twice, sometimes 3 times lol.
luckily my son is a weder and does the important welds like on the frame for my steering box.

I did manage to make the steering work tho, I,ll post pics later for sure.
No problem coming over I'm near St Eustache

I dont work on the car as much as I would like to, but as soon I finish the fences I'm working on, the car is next.
 
Second thought, a good friend of mine is starting his formation at the body shop school, and guess what, first course are about welding. They can do personal stuff at the school, and have all the equipement you can dream of.
First I thought only a dragvette-like 6 links setup would be within my reach.... now I have the pier-paolo on my todo list.
 
That's it, we did it.
Last weekend a couple of friends came to help me perform my body lifting.
Everything went just as planned.
It's so impressive when the whole body start levitating.
Here are the pic, as I already told you, I'm really space challenged.

Here is the result:
16554c92fbd627572.jpg


You can spot the donor frame at the bottom:
16554c92fe268f3b9.jpg

And that's the view from the other side :
16554c92fe2726405.jpg

 As you can see not much room left.
I know it's kinda messy, I'm just like that, can help.

Here is the lifting setup and the structure we made to let the body rest:
16554c92fe27b8bd1.jpg
16554c92fe24ee710.jpg

Here is the rust problem that made me start the resto in the first place....
16554c92fe238f395.jpg

....compared to the rust-free donor frame:
16554c92fd506a0a3.jpg

Hopefully part of the job have been done by the previous owner:
16554c92fd527dbf1.jpg

16554c92fe2437555.jpg

Things are going pretty well, just received my poly bushing kit, and the left a-arm have been entirely dismantled, cleaned and ready for a good coat of POR-15.


While I'm at it, here is my Borgeson upgrade:
16554c92fd4b0fb41.jpg

And my home made firebird headlight motor mod:
16554c92fe2587e74.jpg
16554c92fe2612b7a.jpg

Thanks for all the help you provided guys, couldn't have done that without you.
 
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denpo said:
Yeah, I'm preparing my shopping and I went to the same conclusion, much cheaper to go poly.
Questions:
-is it ok to use poly motor mount?
-Bilstein shocks are all the rage, any decent alternative?

I used Energy Suspension motor mounts P/N ENS-3-1114G when I upgraded to a healthy 383 in my 82. These have worked well for me.:clap:
Click to expand...
 
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