how to get a lean idle on the Q jet

turtlevette

The Turdle
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Mar 24, 2008
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Location
Marshfield, MA
Bird says my exhaust stinks to high heaven.

i've got 74 jets in when there should be 75. The throttle plates are closed as much as they will go.

The idle air bleed screws are around 1.5 out. Used to be about 4 turns and the exhaust smelled better but the idle was too high.
 
DPFI.....

CASE CLOSED

better torque, better fuel economy, easier starting, and for what it worth, cleaner running...which means better economy...

carbs are the cause of CARB.....


:crap:
 
Bird says my exhaust stinks to high heaven.

i've got 74 jets in when there should be 75. The throttle plates are closed as much as they will go.

The idle air bleed screws are around 1.5 out. Used to be about 4 turns and the exhaust smelled better but the idle was too high.

Tell Bird to stand downwind,and then see if the exhaust smells better :harhar:
 
You burning oil?


Yes, between fried seafood platters, boudin, steak and Popeyes fried chicken......consuming about a quart a week.

The vette takes about a quart every 3000 miles. Goodwrench engine with 100K+ miles burns less than anything i ever rebuilt fresh.
 
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CASE CLOSED

the case is still open since most of us run carbs and we don't want to poison ourselves.

You buy the rattle can paint yet? One more thing i wanted to get off my chest. If my daughter had earned a Phd in anything i'd be damn proud. I know it's sour grapes because you didn't. Let it go and give people their due.
 
CASE CLOSED

the case is still open since most of us run carbs and we don't want to poison ourselves.

You buy the rattle can paint yet? One more thing i wanted to get off my chest. If my daughter had earned a Phd in anything i'd be damn proud. I know it's sour grapes because you didn't. Let it go and give people their due.


fuckin-a right
 
Pull the plugs and read them,what do they say. They can tell you exactly whats going on each cylinder.
 
CASE CLOSED

the case is still open since most of us run carbs and we don't want to poison ourselves.

You buy the rattle can paint yet? One more thing i wanted to get off my chest. If my daughter had earned a Phd in anything i'd be damn proud. I know it's sour grapes because you didn't. Let it go and give people their due.

NOT dissing her efforts, just that her position is SO POLITICAL and way over complicated for even ME to understand, so I certainly can't explain it here....

I think she is on thin ice.....I leave it at that....

and today's conversation with her made that opinion ever more solid....

but it's HER life, not mine, I just hope my son don't find the same crap out in the Park Service...but like any larger organization, he will....for sure....

:hissyfit::crutches:
 
You burning oil?


Yes, between fried seafood platters, boudin, steak and Popeyes fried chicken......consuming about a quart a week.

The vette takes about a quart every 3000 miles. Goodwrench engine with 100K+ miles burns less than anything i ever rebuilt fresh.

I had one that burned a quart every 2k...smelled bad in the garage after shutdown.

Add McD's to that menu and you can up your intake by 1/2 quart per week.
 
I had one that burned a quart every 2k...smelled bad in the garage after shutdown.

Add McD's to that menu and you can up your intake by 1/2 quart per week.

In reality most home built engines burn more than 1 quart per 2k. That's nothing. Forged pistons need a lot of slop. There's no getting around that. I laugh my ass off at guys who think their motors don't burn oil. Most of them don't drive enough miles to ever figure it out.

I know the difference between the smell of oil and a rich mixture. You think i'm an idiot?

Don't answer that.


I'm guessing the answer is to modify the idle circuit in some way.
 
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A few comments about exhaust smell versus how the engine is running...

First, exhaust smell is not an indication of how rich or lean an engine is running - there are a lot more factors involved in how your exhaust smells, including camshaft duration/overlap and ignition timing (none of which will be solved by fuel injection).

A rich engine will run high on CO, and CO is odorless... On the other hand, HC can be smelled, and HC is caused by ignition and timing issues. In fact, if you're too lean, you will get excessive exhaust smell from a partial lean misfire that is often not audibly detectable. Without a wideband ox sensor with an A/F readout, you cannot tell how rich or lean you are - you sure can't tell by smell, so I would not assume you are running rich just due to the exhaust smell.

If I were you, here's what I would do:

First make darned sure your timing is set right so you have 36 degrees total timing and about 12-18 degrees of initial. Make sure your vacuum advance does not pull in any more than 16 degrees of additional timing - modern fuels won't take that much timing lead without causing misfire (which you'd be able to smell). Put a slot limit in your vacuum advance slot if you need to in order to get the vacuum advance down below 16 degrees.

Once timing has been set up correctly and verified, set your idle rpm to about 750-800 and start with your idle mixture screws at about 4-6 turns out from lightly seated. Turn them both in 1/2 turn at a time until you get a 50 rpm drop in idle speed. At this point, your A/F mixture will be about 15:1, which is a tad too lean for ethanol-added fuel, so crank the screws back out about 1/2 turn from that point. This will get you right about at 14:1 on your idle mixture, which is perfect.

If the idle mixture screws do not respond, or if you can screw both screws in until they bottom out without the engine killing, you have other carb problems with fuel entering the manifold from the wrong source. If the engine runs with both screws bottomed out, observe the booster venturies and see if you have fuel dribbling out of the main discharge nozzles - this should not be happening at idle, and is indicative of other carb problems which would create a rich condition or a rich misfire, which could be smelled.

Lars
 
In fact, if you're too lean, you will get excessive exhaust smell from a partial lean misfire that is often not audibly detectable. Without a wideband ox sensor with an A/F readout, you cannot tell how rich or lean you are - you sure can't tell by smell, so I would not assume you are running rich just due to the exhaust smell.
Lars

What unit would you recomend for a small block with Hooker Side Pipes.

Michael.
 
I only know 2 things about Jim's car from riding in it. and talking to him.
1)The advance curve is unknown, and he set it by ear/feel.
2)The idle is so fat,my eyes burned from the smell.
 
I'll have to play with it some more.

The throttle plate adjustment has always been set to just touch the linkage to take any stress of the shaft ie. full closed.

The last time i adjusted the mixture screws i made sure both were even and turned both in until it would barely idle about 1.5 turns then brought them out to get the slowest idle practical when in gear.

it must be lean?

I appreciate the procedure Lars. I'll have to bolt on that harmonic balancer cover one day so i can actually use a light to time it. What i have been mostly doing since i got the car in 1980 is to advance the timing until i get a little detonation under heavy throttle then back off until it goes away. It still would like more advance to get the maximum idle rpm so i'm guessing i need to put stiffer springs in.

I guess i'll just have to keep adjusting it until the exhaust is less offensive since that is more important to me than performance. I don't want to choke everyone to death driving around town.
 
The idle air bleed screws are around 1.5 out. Used to be about 4 turns and the exhaust smelled better but the idle was too high.

I was just re-reading your original post, and there is something not right with your setup...

First, a Q-Jet does not have adjustable idle air bleeds. The air bleeds are fixed. You can only adjust idle fuel on a Q-Jet.

The second thing that concerns me is that you indicate that you are controlling idle speed by setting idle mixture: "Used to be about 4 turns and the exhaust smelled better but the idle was too high." The idle speed should never be controlled by leaning the mixture. If you are lowering idle speed by running the mixture lean, you are causing a lean misfire which would be the cause of your smell. If you cannot lower the speed enough to kill the engine with the idle speed screw regardless of mixture screw setting, you have an air leak somewhere (the engine should not be able to idle at all with the throttle fully closed).

I only know 2 things about Jim's car from riding in it. and talking to him.
1)The advance curve is unknown, and he set it by ear/feel.
2)The idle is so fat,my eyes burned from the smell.

Now there's a huge problem. It is absolutely impossible to set up a carb without the timing and timing curve being set correctly to spec. There is no way at all that your timing is even in the ballpark if you set it by "ear." And timing will cause smell. You need to get back to the basics of your setup and set your timing correctly. That means forking out the $80 for an adjustable timing light and setting up your advance curve right. Only then can you even hope to set the carb up right. And if idle rpm cannot be lowered enough with the idle speed screw once best mixture has been set, you have a vacuum leak which will further contribute to lean misfire and smell.



In fact, if you're too lean, you will get excessive exhaust smell from a partial lean misfire that is often not audibly detectable. Without a wideband ox sensor with an A/F readout, you cannot tell how rich or lean you are - you sure can't tell by smell, so I would not assume you are running rich just due to the exhaust smell.
Lars

What unit would you recomend for a small block with Hooker Side Pipes.

Michael.

I'm not sure what relevance the side pipes are for wideband A/F instrumentation - any of the commercially available wideband readouts, such as the LM-1, will work with any exhaust system geometry. Weld an O2 bung in at the collector or at the down pipe and you're set to go. Most of the widebands also come with temporary probles that allow you to clamp into the exhaust outlet, regardless of its location. I use an LM-1, but there are several other brands on the market with varying capabilities and features for readout, memory, and recording - they are all of identical accuracy since they relay on voltage signal from the same type of O2 sensor.

Lars
 

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