ignition module

keywestjack

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Apr 24, 2008
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I replaced the ignition module in my 77 several days ago. I had the new module laying around (Wells) but it did not have the grease used for the bottom of the module that makes contact with the distributor so I used some dielectric grease I had off the shelf. The module didn't last a week. Was it the grease or a crap module?
 
I replaced the ignition module in my 77 several days ago. I had the new module laying around (Wells) but it did not have the grease used for the bottom of the module that makes contact with the distributor so I used some dielectric grease I had off the shelf. The module didn't last a week. Was it the grease or a crap module?

I'm voting both. ;)

The module needs heat-sink compound. Most dielectric greases (despite the confusion of labels) are insulators (both electrically and thermally). Lack of thermal conductivity can kill a module in short order.

IIRC, Standard Products are the ones that got the official (Delco approved) contracts to correctly manufacture replacement ignition parts. (I'll double check to confirm the accuracy of my statement.)
 
I've used dielectric grease on those modules before with no problems. Not saying it wasn't the factor with yours, just maybe I'm lucky that way.
So if dielectric grease isn't a good thermal and electrical conductor, what should be used?
 
Electrically, I think the module is grounded thru the mounting screws. IIRC, there is a small sleeve the screws go thru into the "breaker" plate. Looking a that, I'd have to say the heat-sink stuff from a computer parts store would make a better choice.
 
The stuff I used was CRC Dielectric Grease. In the future I will use a product specific to the job.
Although, I think I will try a different brand of module next time. For the short run I used a Durlast from AutoZone. Thanks for the help guys, Jack
 
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I"v had WELLS blow up on me twice through the decades....

:hissyfit::surrender: never again.....


I use ordinary transistor heat sink compound....I have a jar from the 60's yet, from when I was a TV man.....been a while, I just add some silicone oil to it and mix it up again when it dries out....had GE stamped on it, in a small glass jar with screw cap on it....:hissyfit::crylol:
 
Sent a quick text note to an old co-worker who oversaw some of the outsourcing of obsolete ignition products. To his best recollection, the 5,6, and 7 terminal ignition modules went to Standard Products for service/aftermarket production. From just casual conversations in the past it appeared that SP had modern technology in their manufacturing. I don't recall any negatives about them.
For reasons my buddy doesn't understand (or was not in the loop at the time) it's his understanding that the four terminal modules (for the original design HEI) were contracted out elsewhere. It's unclear whether that was due to the the particular timing of the contract, GM influence, or who knows what. He speculated who was making them for GM sales, but couldn't say for sure.
 
Is the purpose of the grease to help transfer the heat produced by the module or the other way around?
 
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I replaced the ignition module in my 77 several days ago. I had the new module laying around (Wells) but it did not have the grease used for the bottom of the module that makes contact with the distributor so I used some dielectric grease I had off the shelf. The module didn't last a week. Was it the grease or a crap module?

Also check the ground on the coil if you also changed the cap.
 
Is the purpose of the grease to help transfer the heat produced by the module or the other way around?

My understanding, yes, helps transfer heat.

It takes it from the module into the large dist. base metal....

lectronics hates heat, really, best to have it under the dash, not under any hood with engine heat/headers being 5000f......

:D:(
 
Is the purpose of the grease to help transfer the heat produced by the module or the other way around?

My understanding, yes, helps transfer heat.

It takes it from the module into the large dist. base metal....You are correct!
lectronics hates heat, really, best to have it under the dash, not under any hood with engine heat/headers being 5000f......

:D:(

The OEM modules were designed to work in an ambient temperature of 125*C (257*F). Some of the new stuff is designed for 150*C/302*F. Yeah, it would be nice if everything could be as air-condition cooled as the driver, but that just means more wire length and EMI/RFI issues.
I just shake my head at times when someone spends serious money for aftermarket bling, and then mounts it in the glove compartment so it has a chance of survival.
 
i have the MSD module. It fried my Accel coil then a stock coil before i put the MSD matching coil in. It must be doing something a little different to fry those coils.
 
i have the MSD module. It fried my Accel coil then a stock coil before i put the MSD matching coil in. It must be doing something a little different to fry those coils.

Purely speculation on my part, but I'm guessing your MSD module is calibrated for a lower inductance coil (which requires more current), and the "fried" coils were built to work with stock GM modules (which are calibrated to limit the coil current to about 5.5 amps). Probably higher currents turned the coil windings into one long fuse.

just my speculation.
 
average coil current. I see the module as being a switch with no intended impedance. So the dwell or on time is longer on the MSD module. Other than that, I don't see how a switch can force a coil to take more current than it's impedance dictates.
 
average coil current. I see the module as being a switch with no intended impedance. So the dwell or on time is longer on the MSD module. Other than that, I don't see how a switch can force a coil to take more current than it's impedance dictates.

True, you can't violate Ohm's law, but coils are a combination of R and L (resistance and inductance), and most coils are built with low winding resistance, and depend on the inductance and dwell time/angle to keep the current from spiking too high. If the MSD module is, for example, expecting to drive the coil to 8 amps (typical with many newer coils) then the module (if a smart module like the original HEI) will keep increasing the dwell time (or dwell angle if using a dwellmeter instead of an oscilloscope) until the coil hits 8 amps (as long as the coil has less than 1.5 Ohms resistance, then 8 amps is possible from a 12 volt source). What's the coil's instantaneous wattage at 8 amps? Remember P = I x V= 8 x 12= 96 watts. Small primary wires might fuse at this instantaneous current and wattage heating. The only saving grace here is that the coil might only need 20 degrees dwell to reach 8 amps, so after the coil/plugs fire the coil has a bunch of time (45-20= 25 distributor degrees) to cool down before it is turned on again. Is the 25 degree non-dwell time long enough for sufficient cooling? Depends on the coil and the ambient temperature.
Now, say the coil resistance is 1.75 ohms. With 12 volts (lets ignore the actual alternator voltage again for easier math) the dwell current would max out at 12/1.75 = 6.85 amps. The module would however be looking for 8 amps so it would keep increasing the dwell time/angle in an attempt to give the coil more time to ramp up to 8 amps. However, all that's going to happen is the coil gets turned on for max dwell (about 40 degrees for an eight cylinder) and sits there cooking at P = 6.85 x 12 = 82 watts. This is less instantaneous wattage than the earlier example, but this coil only gets to cool down for 5 dwell degrees before it's turned back on. This coil will tend to get hot and stay hot, which is not a good recipe for durability. Different combinations result in different instantaneous and average wattage numbers.
So essentially it's the combination that determines the performance and reliability, and not just current levels or dwell time/angle numbers. Without knowing the specs of the coil and the module it's just a crap shoot if the system puts out more energy than stock, or if it will survive.

Short and sweet. Hope it made sense.
 
Sounds like the transmitters on pulse field metal detectors......

played around a LOT in the lab with that stuff....my primary hire interview was when I answered all the bosses' questions...him asking about how a olde tyme Vacuum tube TV worked...:D

now if THAT don't screw up your impedance curves, nothing will.....

:devil::D:flash:
 
Short and sweet. Hope it made sense.

Yep, A longer charge time creates a hotter spark. Having 8 coils as the LS engines do allows the coil to charge while the other 7 cylinders are firing. A lot longer than a single coil system.

Well, yes and no. Longer dwell is effective if a) the coil (primary) current doesn't peak out due to being resistively limited, or b) the magnetic field isn't saturated, as increasing current levels wouldn't add any more field strength. Usually these limitations aren't an issue at higher RPMs due to the shorter available dwell times between cylinder fires, hence the move towards individual coils per cylinder (which also allow the deletion of moving parts like the distributor and rotor).
 

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