Noonie, JPhil, and other HVAC addicts

[big2bird]

My next decision:
This one- http://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewproduct.cfm?productID=453059418

Or this one- http://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewproduct.cfm?productID=453055571

I like the control on the Aprilaire unit, but am leaning towards the flexibility of the Honeywell unit. I also have a new Honeywell Enthalpy controller in the box. I can interlock them to use Enthalpy when available, and time the unit for overnight fresh air changes when it's cooler.

I tell you. I'm obsessed at this point, really bad. I bought 90% solar reflectence window screens today.:amazed: I just can't afford dual glazed this year. Maybe next year.

 

[JPhil]

Don't get too carried away too quickly Bird.....Remember, one modification at a time.......

Heck, those things are going to turn on your HVAC fan to bring fresh air ito the house---Why not try experimenting with one or two cheap little window fans and a couple lamp timers first?
That's one of my major complaints about all this "Energy Code" crap---you spend wads of money sealing up the house so tight to "save energy" and then you have to spend more wads of money to introduce "fresh air"----'scuse me? i'll settle for fresh air intake through my leaky windows & pay a bit extra on the heating bill, and I come out way ahead in the end. (I know, I'm in a different situation than you---but for several years when I lived in Long Beach in a cheap little stuccoed cinder block house, I just ran window fans on lamp timers.....)

 

[mrvette]

Jphil has a good point, and the concept is certainly valid in Maryland, as that was done to my ex's house by the guy who taught me HVAC work, he went from consumer crap to nothing less than 400 tons in a few years, major buildings, site super.....
we did a simple 4" sheetmetal intake from the suck side to outside, and let it handle itself, unit in basement with 1/2 underground, hard ducts.....

YMMV as to your location, but the comfort factor was greatly increased, we could feel it in winter, with the gas heat running....it did keep humidity lower....

my unit now sets in the garage, but Linda sensitive to chem/gas fumes, so I never did it...

:smash:

 

[big2bird]

That's one of my major complaints about all this "Energy Code" crap---you spend wads of money sealing up the house so tight to "save energy" and then you have to spend more wads of money to introduce "fresh air"----'scuse me?

I know John, but the only way around that is a
n ERV or HRV, and at $1,000 to start, it just isn't cost effective. This country could save MILLIONS/BILLIONS on energy if they brought the cost of ERV's, HRV's, and economizers down to a cost effective level.
I am learning that attic ventalation is just another stupid carry thru of codes as they nationalize, vs regionalize. It's main purpose is to prevent icycles and ice dams. Not really a problem in my climate zone.
I worked at Owens Corning in LA once. They used the same blueprints to save money for all their buildings in the US. The stupid building had circuits installed for strip heaters for ice prevention. HERE, in L.A.:suspicious:

 

[TimAT]

Gee, Ice prevention could be a big thing in SoCal. In 8000 years. After all, we ARE having "Climate Change". It didn't make 100* in Kansas City this year at all. So it has to be cooling.

 

[mrvette]

Gee, Ice prevention could be a big thing in SoCal. In 8000 years. After all, we ARE having "Climate Change". It didn't make 100* in Kansas City this year at all. So it has to be cooling.

heh...last winter was certainly the LONGEST if not the once a year sub freezing blast, it never seemed to warm up...

this summer has been cooler, but rainy, somewhat of a relief...

not that humidity is lo or anything, still cut the air with a knife, and wring that section out enough to fill a bucket...

:harhar::friends:

 

[010752]

My next decision:
This one- http://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewproduct.cfm?productID=453059418

Or this one- http://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewproduct.cfm?productID=453055571

I like the control on the Aprilaire unit, but am leaning towards the flexibility of the Honeywell unit. I also have a new Honeywell Enthalpy controller in the box. I can interlock them to use Enthalpy when available, and time the unit for overnight fresh air changes when it's cooler.

I tell you. I'm obsessed at this point, really bad. I bought 90% solar reflectence window screens today.:amazed: I just can't afford dual glazed this year. Maybe next year.

Don’t swallow that crap.
It originated in large office buildings, where you walk thru several sets of doors, then up an elevator, then thru several more sets of doors and into a small or large office where none of the windows on the whole floor opened. No fresh air. They had to use a fresh air system, especially when smoking was still allowed.

To extend that reasoning to a residential house is just plain stupid for any reason. I’m sure there was some lobbying and job security etc involved.
Doors are opened more than enough every day. I don't think our windows have been opened in a year or two.

I mentioned in post 17 of your other thread how counter productive it is to a/c in the daytime and open up at night. Same crap.

I did help a friend finish a New York style warehouse second story loft here though. It had no windows at all, completely sealed sheetrock finished, other than having an entrance door at the bottom of a staircase entry. Approx 1400 sq ft.
I put a ½” pvc pipe from the outside into the suction side of the a/c plenum in the cabinet just below the fan. This acted like a venturi (air draws at a much higher rate than a liquid) introducing fresh air into the apartment whenever the a/c was on. He has lived there for over 10 years and still kickin.
You could put a ball valve on it to regulate it or a slip pcv cap or whatever, if it doesn’t suit you.


As far as the shingle icing etc, I don’t know, but attic ventilation is good in hot climates, roofs last longer and conductive heat is reduced.

 

[big2bird]

I know there is a code on fresh air intake rate in CFM per sq. foot. John???

 

[big2bird]

Noonie. We have some nights of cool, dry air. I know, I had an economizer before. I can set this damper up with an enthalpy controller so that it would only operate when the air is dry/cool enough to benefit, not hinder the operation of the whole.
Free cooling is $$ saved. I understand the window thing, and that humidity removal is a large part of the equation. We rarely have that issue here.

 

[010752]

That would be an interesting test. Run a week with that economizer gadget and week with straight a/c, hopefully in the same weather conditions and record the kw used.

 

[JPhil]

I know there is a code on fresh air intake rate in CFM per sq. foot. John???

:lol::lol::lol: Here ya go Bird--straight from the code books: The only references to Residential Ventilation, top one from the Int'l Residential Code, bottom one from the Int'l Energy Conservation Code. Sorry for the flaky copy, but it's hard to fit these books onto a copier and I dam sure didn't feel like typing all the quotatons....Whata load of bureaucratic bullshit that spends $1000 bucks to say a dimes worth of shit that any old timer will tell ya for free, huh? And all it says in the end is there are no requirements at all for residential ventilation, except in kitchens or bathrooms or houses where you spend thousands of dollars to seal it up and then more thousands of dollars to let fresh air in so you don't poison yourself from sealing it up so tight. But you'll save a few hundred dollars in energy bills!
(Just like the total "carbon footprint" impact of buying a new Prius versus keeping your 72' Chevy running....a crock of shit. And I AM a greenie-weenie!)

I guess all I'm saying Bird is, don't get too carried away too quickly---take it slow, think it out, move one step at a time & observe the results, have patience.....

 

[big2bird]

Thank you John. I appreciate it. Look for another thread on my quest.:sos:

 

[mrvette]

Jphil, reading page one there, brings back a funny story...

Old Town Alexandria Va. histerrical society/.gov rules/zoning did not allow ANY alteration to the exterior appearance of this old brownstone, a buddy did a renovation to the interior, one of the gigs was that of course the upstairs bathroom with no windows had to have a exhaust fan, state code....so where to vent the fan TO?? here in Florida it's just to the attic.....not legal up there because the water vapor from showers/baths will condense on the cold attic wood and cause wood rot....so it supposedly HAD to go outdoors, but the histerical folks would not allow it.....

so my buddy paid me like 300 bux to 'find a solution' to his problem...

I got inventive for a couple of hours, and having my name on it, solved the problem...politics, such a dream....


:1st::shocking:prrtt::rofl:

 

[010752]

Jphil, reading page one there, brings back a funny story...

Old Town Alexandria Va. histerrical society/.gov rules/zoning did not allow ANY alteration to the exterior appearance of this old brownstone, a buddy did a renovation to the interior, one of the gigs was that of course the upstairs bathroom with no windows had to have a exhaust fan, state code....so where to vent the fan TO?? here in Florida it's just to the attic.....not legal up there because the water vapor from showers/baths will condense on the cold attic wood and cause wood rot....so it supposedly HAD to go outdoors, but the histerical folks would not allow it.....

so my buddy paid me like 300 bux to 'find a solution' to his problem...

I got inventive for a couple of hours, and having my name on it, solved the problem...politics, such a dream....


:1st::shocking:prrtt::rofl:

Not legal here either. Was it inspected??? :rofl:

 

[mrvette]

Jphil, reading page one there, brings back a funny story...

Old Town Alexandria Va. histerrical society/.gov rules/zoning did not allow ANY alteration to the exterior appearance of this old brownstone, a buddy did a renovation to the interior, one of the gigs was that of course the upstairs bathroom with no windows had to have a exhaust fan, state code....so where to vent the fan TO?? here in Florida it's just to the attic.....not legal up there because the water vapor from showers/baths will condense on the cold attic wood and cause wood rot....so it supposedly HAD to go outdoors, but the histerical folks would not allow it.....

so my buddy paid me like 300 bux to 'find a solution' to his problem...

I got inventive for a couple of hours, and having my name on it, solved the problem...politics, such a dream....


:1st::shocking:prrtt::rofl:

Not legal here either. Was it inspected??? :rofl:

Yeh, according to Joe, they did go back and approve it, and so he went back yet again to find the hidden end of the exhaust pipe the inspector didn't bother to find, and do what EVER with it....I buried it but GOOD....
The thing that was comical is that I wasn't licensed in Va. just Maryland...

another comical thing about the area, DC is run by a totally incompetant bunch of nitwits, been that way for well over 150 years, talking local .gov not necessarily fed.gov....well anyway that shituation extended into the housing code enforcement of course, so much so that there were VERY FEW licensed DC contractors and none would do anyting but commercial work, so the homeowners there would pull in 'illegal' contractors from Maryland mostly...so a LOT of work for the muckey mucks was done 'illegally' in upper NW and Georgetown, Foggy bottom regions so we showed up in unmarked vans/trucks, homeowners had to guarantee parking, but never too many around the job site, once in a while Joe would get caught, by a random DC inspector, at that time the typical payoff was about 750 bux, cash to the man.....he would continue on his rounds.....bet it's 2 grand NOW...Joint was run just like Chicago....homeowners knew they responsible for ALL fines and Parking tickets.....done a bunch of work like that myself...get into a circle of 'recommended' contractors willing to do that, and the customer list is extensive.....:shocking: