SBC Headers--good, bad & ugly.....

[JPhil]

Well after chasing exhaust leaks on my rebuild for two weeks I finally figured out one of my headers was cracked at the head flange. I could probably weld it, but they've been bumped & bent enough times that I have some minor clearance issues now so I think I'll just buy new.
I currently have Hedman 1 5/8" long tubes. They are OK, but I had to dimple one for the steering anchor bracket on the passenger side and the other for the power steering cylinder. I would have no objections to using them again, but am curious as to what others use & how they like them.....

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Hedman headers are great if you're choosing between log manifolds and headers (performance-wise). That said, they're the cheapest header out there and their 1/4" flanges with 18 ga (which is charitable, they're mostly 20ga) tubes crack if you look at them hard.

Things to look for in new headers
430 Stainless (304 is okay but it can crack because it has more nickel then 430) - though 430 stainless will rust stain.
16 ga tubes
3/8" or 7/16" flanges
welds inside the tube and outside the tube at the flanges
ball connector on the ends
even length tubes

 

[mrvette]

Hedman headers are great if you're choosing between log manifolds and headers (performance-wise). That said, they're the cheapest header out there and their 1/4" flanges with 18 ga (which is charitable, they're mostly 20ga) tubes crack if you look at them hard.

Things to look for in new headers
430 Stainless (304 is okay but it can crack because it has more nickel then 430) - though 430 stainless will rust stain.
16 ga tubes
3/8" or 7/16" flanges
welds inside the tube and outside the tube at the flanges
ball connector on the ends
even length tubes

15 years ago when changing from ram's horn to headers, I went to some used pipes that fit the stock '72, and so were fine, but when changing in winter 01-02 the new rack steering would hit the headers, so I bought a cheep set of used 'chassis' headers from Schoenfeld, and they worked fine....nice performance.....so bought another set of same when they rusted out....150 bux at the time....

And so had a interesting conversation with Schoenfeld himself about headers, seems that drag cars love equal length headers, but track cars with a broader torque range requirement like the UNequal length headers, much like a street car.....

HIS comment, not mine, but it does make some sense to me....

you all make the call....

:surrender:

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Hedman headers are great if you're choosing between log manifolds and headers (performance-wise). That said, they're the cheapest header out there and their 1/4" flanges with 18 ga (which is charitable, they're mostly 20ga) tubes crack if you look at them hard.

Things to look for in new headers
430 Stainless (304 is okay but it can crack because it has more nickel then 430) - though 430 stainless will rust stain.
16 ga tubes
3/8" or 7/16" flanges
welds inside the tube and outside the tube at the flanges
ball connector on the ends
even length tubes

15 years ago when changing from ram's horn to headers, I went to some used pipes that fit the stock '72, and so were fine, but when changing in winter 01-02 the new rack steering would hit the headers, so I bought a cheep set of used 'chassis' headers from Schoenfeld, and they worked fine....nice performance.....so bought another set of same when they rusted out....150 bux at the time....

And so had a interesting conversation with Schoenfeld himself about headers, seems that drag cars love equal length headers, but track cars with a broader torque range requirement like the UNequal length headers, much like a street car.....

HIS comment, not mine, but it does make some sense to me....

you all make the call....

:surrender:

I'd be interested to hear why.... I build my own headers, and the best performance has always been equal length, whether it be turbo applications, or NA. With blowers, equal length is the only way to fly because you have such great induction that exhaust is always needing the even flow to help scavage.

About the only way I can imagine that unequal would be better would be if you're not doing an even fire motor; or you want to account for a non 4/7 swap motor.... and even then that equals maybe 2" and would be calculated for a fairly narrow window of exhaust timing.

that idea would also fly in the face of what tri-y has been doing for decades (and winning) - but I'm not an expert, and would love to hear his take.

 

[JPhil]

So anybody out there got a recomendation for me to look at?
73 SBC, TH400, no A/C, does have power brakes & steering, low to the ground. Want to clear the oil filter & steering components with minimal hassle.
Catalogs promise everything, deliver compromises. The 'performance' shops all deal with Chevelles & Camaros. I need Corvette info.
I can't make or afford custom built headers.
Tell me what you do or have run, what you think of them, what you recomend. And why.
Not after high RPM speed, I prefer low end torque. Street.

 

[1Michel]

Interesting series about making headers.

A big plus is that the car he's making his headers is a big block C3
Cool



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9knDsi-td8[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s1-AZcPWAA&feature=relmfu[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc-KhMl-6ss&feature=relmfu[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-2SX7bUIlY&feature=relmfu[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPmygV8t_uo&feature=relmfu[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ridE6PiN5H0&feature=relmfu[/ame]

 

[MYBAD79]

why not just weld what you've got, cut the lange between the ports and wrap the whole shebong with header wrap and call it good ???

for me, the only reason to upgrade fom what you've got would be stainless steel (304) ...

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

this tends to be true in headers: the more expensive - the better they fit.

as for performance, tri-y tends to be a pretty good performer from both the fit and promise delivery.

Avoid shorty headers if you want to maximize low-end power.

I can't imagine building headers with PVC pipe first... worst case, there's a lego-type header building product that can help you design your own headers. The kit costs like 200, and you snap them together then send the completed "tubes" to the kit manufacturer - they then bend up tubes for you to weld together.

Hooker tends to fit okay - but again, avoid the cheapest ones; the supercomps aren't bad.

Funny, FWIW, in thinking of advice on header buying, it reminded me of why I started building headers....

 

[mrvette]

Hedman headers are great if you're choosing between log manifolds and headers (performance-wise). That said, they're the cheapest header out there and their 1/4" flanges with 18 ga (which is charitable, they're mostly 20ga) tubes crack if you look at them hard.

Things to look for in new headers
430 Stainless (304 is okay but it can crack because it has more nickel then 430) - though 430 stainless will rust stain.
16 ga tubes
3/8" or 7/16" flanges
welds inside the tube and outside the tube at the flanges
ball connector on the ends
even length tubes[/QUOTE]

15 years ago when changing from ram's horn to headers, I went to some used pipes that fit the stock '72, and so were fine, but when changing in winter 01-02 the new rack steering would hit the headers, so I bought a cheep set of used 'chassis' headers from Schoenfeld, and they worked fine....nice performance.....so bought another set of same when they rusted out....150 bux at the time....

And so had a interesting conversation with Schoenfeld himself about headers, seems that drag cars love equal length headers, but track cars with a broader torque range requirement like the UNequal length headers, much like a street car.....

HIS comment, not mine, but it does make some sense to me....

you all make the call....

:surrender:

I'd be interested to hear why.... I build my own headers, and the best performance has always been equal length, whether it be turbo applications, or NA. With blowers, equal length is the only way to fly because you have such great induction that exhaust is always needing the even flow to help scavage.

About the only way I can imagine that unequal would be better would be if you're not doing an even fire motor; or you want to account for a non 4/7 swap motor.... and even then that equals maybe 2" and would be calculated for a fairly narrow window of exhaust timing.

that idea would also fly in the face of what tri-y has been doing for decades (and winning) - but I'm not an expert, and would love to hear his take.

This phone conversation is about ten years old now, so pardon my memory here, but basically it broadens out the performance from just one RPM peak, and yes the cylinders are running at different points of efficiency....but then he added one more remark, that adding a long pipe and especially ANY muffler negates most if not ALL the gains from any header.....essentially meaning that for my street machine, I may as well have stuck with the stock '87 vette headers,.....

 

[mrvette]

So anybody out there got a recomendation for me to look at?
73 SBC, TH400, no A/C, does have power brakes & steering, low to the ground. Want to clear the oil filter & steering components with minimal hassle.
Catalogs promise everything, deliver compromises. The 'performance' shops all deal with Chevelles & Camaros. I need Corvette info.
I can't make or afford custom built headers.
Tell me what you do or have run, what you think of them, what you recomend. And why.
Not after high RPM speed, I prefer low end torque. Street.



PS fuck Obamney or Robama or whoever he is. He'll fuck with me no matter what. I want my car to run good, that's all.

I really like the Schoenfeld headers I have...#151 they call them 'chassis headers' something about circle cars, like I said before, it's a old conversation....only thing to watch is plug clearance, I use Jacobs ceramic plug boots because of the heat melting rubber boots....it never showed on the used set of headers I got for 40 bux down the road, but on the new set it did, dunno why...but for the 150 bux I paid, they been in there nice now for maybe 8? years......street driven daily, they clear the filter, starter, and all the other crap just fine, and hang above the pan....

 

[JPhil]

why not just weld what you've got, cut the lange between the ports and wrap the whole shebong with header wrap and call it good ???

for me, the only reason to upgrade fom what you've got would be stainless steel (304) ...

Yeah, that's my first line of thought and what I probably will do.

I made my own pipes for my Harleys for years & years. It's the only way to make them fit right. But that was simple and I don't want to tackle headers for my car.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

why not just weld what you've got, cut the lange between the ports and wrap the whole shebong with header wrap and call it good ???

for me, the only reason to upgrade fom what you've got would be stainless steel (304) ...

Yeah, that's my first line of thought and what I probably will do.

I made my own pipes for my Harleys for years & years. It's the only way to make them fit right. But that was simple and I don't want to tackle headers for my car.

IMO it's easier to build car headers - especially where they are not exposed. That said, there are some people who can build something in 3d in their head and those who cannot. Those who cannot should never try to build a header - unless they want to take a vacation from sanity.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

some header-building pictures

in the car

in the car


and if I can do it, any monkey can do it :suspicious::crutches:

 

[mrvette]

and if I can do it, any monkey can do it :suspicious::crutches:

This monkey can't weld......:mobeer:

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

and if I can do it, any monkey can do it :suspicious::crutches:

This monkey can't weld......:mobeer:

nor can the monkeys who built my car in Bowling Green


so don't let that stop you

what is funny/ironic is I just bought (today) Hooker supercomp side pipes and headers for my car... 18 ga steel, 3/8 flange - in short, everything I preach against. In my defense, they are brand new and cost me $200.00

 

[1Michel]

I just bought (today) Hooker supercomp side pipes and headers they are brand new and cost me $200.00

Pls explain???

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Craigslist :1st:

 

[mrvette]

Craigslist :1st:

:club: Lucky bastard......:drink::banghead:

 

[MYBAD79]

Yeah, that's my first line of thought and what I probably will do.

I made my own pipes for my Harleys for years & years. It's the only way to make them fit right. But that was simple and I don't want to tackle headers for my car.

I thought you already have headers and one is cracked ???

I'd just take the headers, cut the flanges between the primary tubes, weld whatever is cracked, wrap everything with header wrap and reinstall....
:smash:

 

[JPhil]

Well I decided to take the easy way out. I ordered a set of Hooker Comps. Thicker flange & tubes. My Hedmans have been bent & tweaked enough over the years that they rub on the steering components, it's a bitch changing the oil filter, and the pipes immediatly aft of the collectors don't fit right anymore. I'll just start with new, fab up new pipe sections to fit properly again. Plus it helps keep my local hot-rod shop in business.