Plastic Fantastic 2

First thing today... fix a broken side lens
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drill hole, run a screw/washer in.... fixed
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this is an issue, don't know the solution yet... I suspect I need to brace the front more....
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time to get serious about steering.... that's a tire temp gauge (for those who don't know)
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I did go from 1/8" in to 1/8" out.... I'll do a temp test in a day or so... I still have some other alignment stuff to do - but the 'drive around the block' is it's quicker steering.... I need to get it up to speed, though and see how it really does
cheap slide plates - don't steal from the kitchen...
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oh good grief.... for those who wonder why I do most stuff myself - a professional did this (gasket)
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people may wonder why I don't have many friends.... I ask them to do things like this
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in other news, my brake lever is the problem - a new-to-me is on its way

and my dumb question of the day.... why are splitters so expensive? the hardware is cheap from Aircraft Spruce and making a carbon-covered honeycomb is easy... but then again.... I quite frankly don't have a clue.... and by so expensive - they cost the same as a wing....
 
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Birch ply - or pvc board until you get it "sized right" saves a few dollars while in test. Weight an issue with those, but many track rats use until they rot or break.

Also, weigh (ha ha) the price/performance and cost benefit of CF vs 'glass and epoxy vs polyester. Definitely use core, however make sure compatible with your resin! Just one man's opinion.

BTW - what was the "gasket?" Image was a re-post.

Cheers - Jim
 
phantomjock said:
Holy Crap! Hope you didn't get full charged for that job!
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50 years in the industry, knows more then me (fair), never makes a mistake.... yeah. Thing is he's retired and he's a little guy... sure, I could take it back to him, but it'd probably crush him..... that TKK transmission is sure looking appealing right now.... I tightened the bolts - and they took tightening - so I'm hoping that stems the flow for now....
 
You a Good Man!

Similar/different circumstance with a small local shop, reassembled the CVs on my cut-down (cryo-treated) axles.

Took 18 months - a learning experience for both of us. Me already - years behind!
I learned a little (more) patience. He learned a new skill and can do it again.
We both gained.

Lousy Haiku - I'll do better tomorrow...

Cheers - Jim
 
got my degree plates today
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hmmm 23 degrees
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does it matter? the wheel moves rearward quite a bit at full lock
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so here are the numbers... at 10 degrees, there is very little ackerman
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but at 30 degrees, the other side is 23 degrees
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drove the car with the toe-out alignment... much, much, much better

in other news, that's a friend's 73 C3... we're replacing the rear suspension.... it had troubles, lots and lots of troubles
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thankfully one of those troubles wasn't I had put the Buick in the way of dropping it down on the lift
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yikes reminds me of the guy who was so scared of scratching his newly painted cars mirrors when he was backing it out of the garage he forgot to put the hood down, and it was a C3


on those degree plates are the degrees are relative to each other as opposed to giving an independent reading for each plate? how do you center them to the car, cars frame and the back wheels? is there some big X measurement you make to square then all up?
 
bobs77vet said:
yikes reminds me of the guy who was so scared of scratching his newly painted cars mirrors when he was backing it out of the garage he forgot to put the hood down, and it was a C3


on those degree plates are the degrees are relative to each other as opposed to giving an independent reading for each plate? how do you center them to the car, cars frame and the back wheels? is there some big X measurement you make to square then all up?
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we won't mention that I almost hit my C3, yesterday, because it was parked in the garage where I normally park my DD.... the red C3 takes a shop space and I have 2 vehicles that must be parked inside... thus the C3 evicted my pickup.

independent reading
with my eyeballs
ever since the piano from the sky incident, I don't mark big X's on the ground.... as far as the wheel moving fore/aft, I presume that's actually a benefit to turning as it shortens the inside turn diameter wheelbase and stretches the wheelbase on the outside wheels.... of course, with all, there must be limits and there's where my understanding starts to get fuzzy.... because the inner wheel turns fewer degrees but the wheelbase shortens, does that change how I should align (camber)?
 
If you are still trying to fix the understeer in that tight corner at the end of the autocross course, you need to see what your steering angle is during that turn and measure the total toe with the wheels turned that far. If the toe angle between the two wheels is great (more than needed for that turn radius, less a little allowance for scrub angle on the outside tire), then adding toe out to your static toe adjustment actually hurts, rather than helps. Toe out will make the car feel better on turn-in for "normal" turns like road course or autocross, other than that one sharp corner that you are encountering. If it were me, I would adjust for the 90% of "normal" corners and just accept the fact that the car will push in the one corner that is causing you trouble. That corner would be a good place to show off your drifting skills. LOL
 
phantomjock said:
mfain said:
...That corner would be a good place to show off your drifting skills. LOL
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Yeah - - Generate some Throttle-On Oversteer to bring the b1tch around...

Cheers - Jim
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it just pushes.... don't ask me how I know this....

more seriously - slalom worked really well, it's when I was basically going around at full lock where the front would wash out*... the 325 rear tires have a lot of traction...

as far as toe out, it feels a lot more precise and lighter steering feel.... but no autox, yet, to see if that feeling is anything real

*and I tried a number of ways to get it to go around including loading then hard turn... what has 'worked' is tapping the brakes... but that kills speed (who knew brakes only slow you down?)
 
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mfain said:
If you are still trying to fix the understeer in that tight corner at the end of the autocross course, you need to see what your steering angle is during that turn and measure the total toe with the wheels turned that far. If the toe angle between the two wheels is great (more than needed for that turn radius, less a little allowance for scrub angle on the outside tire), then adding toe out to your static toe adjustment actually hurts, rather than helps. Toe out will make the car feel better on turn-in for "normal" turns like road course or autocross, other than that one sharp corner that you are encountering. If it were me, I would adjust for the 90% of "normal" corners and just accept the fact that the car will push in the one corner that is causing you trouble. That corner would be a good place to show off your drifting skills. LOL
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when I change to a 200tw tire, I wonder if it might be useful to see if I can fit something a bit wider on the front... the biggest issue at the moment is that I have no extra clearance on the outer sidewall and the fender... maybe when I'm rich, I can get custom offset wheels... of course, as my wife would suggest, if I stopped racing; I'd have the funds to do such things .... :crutches:
 
it's ironic that my complaints to CIC also resulted in a 3" front flare.... if I were to build another C3; I'd probably go that route... who knows, with the understeer, I might solve that problem :goodevil:
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
mfain said:
If you are still trying to fix the understeer in that tight corner at the end of the autocross course, you need to see what your steering angle is during that turn and measure the total toe with the wheels turned that far. If the toe angle between the two wheels is great (more than needed for that turn radius, less a little allowance for scrub angle on the outside tire), then adding toe out to your static toe adjustment actually hurts, rather than helps. Toe out will make the car feel better on turn-in for "normal" turns like road course or autocross, other than that one sharp corner that you are encountering. If it were me, I would adjust for the 90% of "normal" corners and just accept the fact that the car will push in the one corner that is causing you trouble. That corner would be a good place to show off your drifting skills. LOL
Click to expand...

when I change to a 200tw tire, I wonder if it might be useful to see if I can fit something a bit wider on the front... the biggest issue at the moment is that I have no extra clearance on the outer sidewall and the fender... maybe when I'm rich, I can get custom offset wheels... of course, as my wife would suggest, if I stopped racing; I'd have the funds to do such things .... :crutches:
Click to expand...

I've never seen this but, don't tires have an optimal unit area load? So making the contact "patch" area bigger (with a wider tire) could actually decrease traction (with a smaller unit area load)?
 
I liked the change in cornering when I put wider tires on the front (same with as the rear). But that was just cruising around in Fl.

With that c5 front end, there should be lots of info out there for you.

I think someone said c5z road racers were switching to C6 front end components. I'll see if I can find that.
 
BBShark said:
SuperBuickGuy said:
mfain said:
If you are still trying to fix the understeer in that tight corner at the end of the autocross course, you need to see what your steering angle is during that turn and measure the total toe with the wheels turned that far. If the toe angle between the two wheels is great (more than needed for that turn radius, less a little allowance for scrub angle on the outside tire), then adding toe out to your static toe adjustment actually hurts, rather than helps. Toe out will make the car feel better on turn-in for "normal" turns like road course or autocross, other than that one sharp corner that you are encountering. If it were me, I would adjust for the 90% of "normal" corners and just accept the fact that the car will push in the one corner that is causing you trouble. That corner would be a good place to show off your drifting skills. LOL
Click to expand...

when I change to a 200tw tire, I wonder if it might be useful to see if I can fit something a bit wider on the front... the biggest issue at the moment is that I have no extra clearance on the outer sidewall and the fender... maybe when I'm rich, I can get custom offset wheels... of course, as my wife would suggest, if I stopped racing; I'd have the funds to do such things .... :crutches:
Click to expand...

I've never seen this but, don't tires have an optimal unit area load? So making the contact "patch" area bigger (with a wider tire) could actually decrease traction (with a smaller unit area load)?
Click to expand...

floatation is very useful for my wheeling on the snow - but I have no idea in this arena.... I can certainly play with tire pressures.... I'm not even across the tread but have no idea whether the 1 degree difference makes any difference at all.... at the Autox I watch people check tire pressures religiously, even record them, but I'm not sure I saw a contact-temp-gauge (which, to me, would seem more important)... again. I really have no idea but hoping to learn.
 
rtj said:
I liked the change in cornering when I put wider tires on the front (same with as the rear). But that was just cruising around in Fl.

With that c5 front end, there should be lots of info out there for you.

I think someone said c5z road racers were switching to C6 front end components. I'll see if I can find that.
Click to expand...

I was operating under the assumption that they were the same - most things I've read say they are... but I dunno... I'll have to look too. IIRC, many of the parts have the same part number.
 
What I'm finding
"The short-long arm and transverse leaf spring independent suspension configuration remains, but none of the suspension components have been carried over from C5. Improvements in ride and handling include greater lateral acceleration, more body control, less noise transmitted from the road, and better traction and stability in corners. The specific tuning changes in the chassis and suspension include suspension and steering geometry optimized for better handling and ride, advanced compounds in the tires, new directional control arm bushings, increased caster angle and greater suspension ride travel."
Numbers would be nice, but different bushings is a good clue - that said, the track and wheelbase changed between the 5 and 6 - so 'optimized' is probably changes due to those differences.

I didn't realize this... I may swap my lighter springs back into the front
this is C5 - I'm not sure I'd survive a stiffer rear spring in my car. On second thought, with a wing, this would be a smart change....
Springs
Base...440/577
Z51....525/634
Z06....525/714

on Lateral-g

All of the parts will swap. The frame its self was the same from 1997-2013 except the C6 Z06 which was aluminum and had a different mount design for the rear upper control arms. The pick up points are the same they just redesigned the control arms for strength.

The front cradle is will swap between the two and only had minor changes. The rear has a different cradle to accept the auto 6 speed and how they mount with two pads vs. one on the C6. If you swap C6 rear lower control arms onto the C5 it will move the wheels back about 3/4" and center the wheel better in the opening. This was in part to offset the longer 6 speed auto vs. the 4 speed.

The C6 spindles are the same mounting point wise, but are a different aluminum and have thicker brake mounting bosses and overall they were stiffer than the C5. Direct swap between the two models.
 
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