UAW wages to blame?

MYBAD79 said:
A dizzy cap for $48 ???? Wow, is that thing gold plated or what ??:ill:
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I also bought a new master cylinder made in China. Pig iron cast, machined, assembled and shipped half way round the world. $38.00. WTF? Also Delco.
Cast iron water pump. Same price. I guess UAW workers in Mexico are to blame.:bomb:
 
big2bird said:
The total labor cost of a new vehicle produced in the United States is about $2,400,2 which includes direct, indirect and salaried labor for engines, stamping and assembly at the automakers' plants.
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So let's say it costs double that to make a labor intensive ZR-1. $4,000.
The car lists at $100,000. That is 4% labor cost. Now lets let a group of DB's build it for $3,000. That's 3% labor. Think GM will lower the cost of the ZR-1?Wake up. It's corporate propaganda.:rolleyes:
 
big2bird said:
big2bird said:
The total labor cost of a new vehicle produced in the United States is about $2,400,2 which includes direct, indirect and salaried labor for engines, stamping and assembly at the automakers' plants.
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So let's say it costs double that to make a labor intensive ZR-1. $4,000.
The car lists at $100,000. That is 4% labor cost. Now lets let a group of DB's build it for $3,000. That's 3% labor. Think GM will lower the cost of the ZR-1?Wake up. It's corporate propaganda.:rolleyes:
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I dunno Jeff, I tie the inflation rate to housing and car prices, and even on the east coast, where I grew up, dad sold his old house I got older in, '63...for 24 grand, thought it was a fortune having made 7 grand on it in some 15? years.....today that joint is probably 600 grand and that maybe lo side....my first car a used '60 vette in '66 I paid a grand even for it, lost it in a wreck, today to buy a 6 y/o vette an easy 25 grand+

and I fully realize that wages have NO WAY kept up with any of that, not even close....Dad paid 600 bux for a Curtis Mathes color set, the one we watched the moon landing on some 5-6 years later, I was in the business back then TV repair...that's why it was still working....21" round tube,
I bought my 36" CRT set here about 8 years ago for a grand even....never had the back off, knock on wood, JVC maybe assembled there in Ca.....not sure, really....
I used to sell kitchens right left and center in the DC area for some 1500 bux labor each, straight change out, 15-20' of counter top, and get 300 bux for just doing the tile backsplash.....now I switched town to cheep old Jax Florida, where I can't get anything for tile..maybe 100 bux and maybe 400 for the kitchen install with tops....some 25 years later.....

sorry but I collect my stupid return for the 15% off the top I have paid into SS and sit on my ASS, eff'em Goddamn gas from 25c/gallon to 2 bux or worse....and when this greenie Naderwit prez we stuck with now get done, watch gas be up there to 5 bux again....

I dunno Jeff, they call it the 'information age' and the 'post manufacturing' economy......I call it bullshit....the joint we knew aint gonna BE much longer......where in hell this country can GET all the bux to PAY for all this WPA make work projects in the works....when no one is working, primarily because some power plant shut down.....or electric rates to light a fucking lightbulb shoot up to 50 bux/year.....and we supposed to screw in ten dollar light bulbs, while the a/c heat that you don't even HAVE in your homes is running is 600/month is going to be something else, alright.....
right now my electric was 100 bux last month.....200 was the highpoint, and this certainly aint' no TAJ here...not at 1600'....

Freeking 'management' in this country is out to lunch, that's for sure, far cry from my father's age, he was born in 1905.....
 
SmokinBBC said:
DR.G said:
easyasone2three said:
It's not just executive salaries.The average GM worker is averaging $73 per hour compared to a little more than half of that for a Toyota worker.
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Here is some info for you to listen to.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heathe...ng-70-hour-auto

It may be hard for the Union bashers to stomach this, but the $38 is closer to the truth with the full benefit package(health care and pension).
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Page not found on your link.
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Click on link. Click on home. Scroll 1/2 way down. It is the last of three segments on that video. Andrew Sorkin from NY Times and his mathematical BS.
 
SMYDA said:
big2bird said:
My point is the mark up. A NAPA cap would have been $30.00, but GM is $48.00.
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You gotta help pay those Exectutive salaries of $7,000,000.00 a year,
and those Private Jets that cost $20,000 a trip to operate just so they
can fly to ask "Uncle" to bail them out. And where is the money going
to go? To cover Pensions!

Maybe this 1 time Obama is right......all they need is $150,000 a year.
Who's gonna take the first pay cut to save the company???????
Maybe their not so "Loyal" after all.

Heck...I'd be tickled to death with a $150,000 a year.
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The executive salary adds about 10 cents to a car, the labor abuses at about $3000. Tell me where the problem is.

Yeah, you can whine, bitch and be jealous, but no one has the right to limit someone's salary, especially not Obama.

Some day, people are going to decide YOU are over paid....
 
big2bird said:
I understand I am rambling on about this, but to blame the woes of everything on a decet wage just tears me up inside. If everyone only makes $10 an hour, who the hell is going to be able to afford all this crap?
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How about market wage. How is a high school grad who knows how to make a fist and screw a part worth $40 an hour plus full benefit, plus pension (which I as a taxpayer have to back).

How about job banks and other abuses.

Nope, the problems GM and Ford find themselves faced with is the natural fruition of union rules.

I blame management for sigining off on it when times are good.

Pensions, healthcare for life, etc....these people need a taste of reality.
 
DR.G said:
easyasone2three said:
It's not just executive salaries.The average GM worker is averaging $73 per hour compared to a little more than half of that for a Toyota worker.
Click to expand...

Here is some info for you to listen to.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heathe...ng-70-hour-auto

It may be hard for the Union bashers to stomach this, but the $38 is closer to the truth with the full benefit package(health care and pension).
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here's one for you:

www.unionfacts.com

Unions exist for two reasons and two reasons only. To over pay the incompetent and raise money for the Democrats.
 
Jsup said:
Unions exist for two reasons and two reasons only. To over pay the incompetent and raise money for the Democrats.
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That's a crock of crap.
Speaking of overpaid incompetence, how is Michael Eisner these days?
 
big2bird said:
Jsup said:
Unions exist for two reasons and two reasons only. To over pay the incompetent and raise money for the Democrats.
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That's a crock of crap.
Speaking of overpaid incompetence, how is Michael Eisner these days?
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Ok, I'll bite. How is Eisner over paid.....and define your criteria how you come to that conclusion.

Now, want me to back up my assertion.

Unions set the wage. The guy who is good at his job gets paid the same as the guy who isn't...therefore, over paying the incompetent. You get paid by how long you manage not to get fired, not how good you are at your job.

Now, show me a democrat the unions didn't support. Any union, NEA, UAW, IBEW, pick one.
 
Jsup said:
Unions set the wage. The guy who is good at his job gets paid the same as the guy who isn't...therefore, over paying the incompetent. You get paid by how long you manage not to get fired, not how good you are at your job.

Now, show me a democrat the unions didn't support. Any union, NEA, UAW, IBEW, pick one.
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Unions negotiate the wage thru collective bargaining. Believe it or not, I have had pay cuts and lost some benefits thru the years. When work is good, we get raises. When work is slow, we give concessions. Putting companies out of business is not in our best interest.
The good guys keep their job, and the bad ones sit at home, and eventually quit. You REALLY believe the slackers hang on? Nonsense.
Simple really. Days work for a days wages. The stigma of some truiths continues to hang on, despite them not really true anymore. Unions have adjusted to the times alot more than people give them credit for.

Yes, unions support the Dems, and Dems support the unions. That's called having an equal voice in government. CEO's support the Republicans, and Republicans support big business. Sounds fair to me..
Do you think ONLY the wealthy should have a voice?
 
Unions negotiate the wage thru collective bargaining. Believe it or not, I have had pay cuts and lost some benefits thru the years. When work is good, we get raises. When work is slow, we give concessions. Putting companies out of business is not in our best interest.
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Well, see, that right there is part of the problem I have. A job is worth what it's worth and has no bearing on company profitability. Period. Now, if the company chooses to profit share, that's one thing, but to make it part of the deal, that's another. And I point to this as one of the bad management decisions, giving into this stuff.

The good guys keep their job, and the bad ones sit at home, and eventually quit. You REALLY believe the slackers hang on? Nonsense.
Simple really. Days work for a days wages. The stigma of some truiths continues to hang on, despite them not really true anymore. Unions have adjusted to the times alot more than people give them credit for.
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Two words for ya: JOB BANKS. How about perks like health benefits for life and college tuition for employees kids. That's fairy tale land, no one in in life gets that. And tell me again why the taxpayers should back Union pensions. Pensions in general should all be eliminated. 401K fend for themselves and don't let the taxpayer back it.

I have to pay for SS I'll never see, I have to back pensions I don't participate in, and I have to plan for my own retirement. I have to ask, when TF do I get something out of this.. And fact of the matter is, I don't want anything from anyone. Just to be left alone and not have to support three other families. Unfortunately with this last election, that's looking kinda slim.

Yes, unions support the Dems, and Dems support the unions. That's called having an equal voice in government. CEO's support the Republicans, and Republicans support big business. Sounds fair to me..
Do you think ONLY the wealthy should have a voice?
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CEO's support the republicans? News to me. Most Wall Street CEOs supported the Crats this time around, looking for more taxpayer handout.

Fact of the matter is GM is a health care provider that happens to make cars.
 
Too many varied job sites, and types of jobs over the years to EVER suppose that 'management knows jack shit what in hell they doing about 3/4 of the time....

seen my share of doofuses.....walked on more than one too.....

My welder buddy drug from his job in Pittsburgh and was SO happy to thaw out over the last 4 days.....

he don't want to go back, really.....his knees are actually worse than mine....

:crap:
 
I have been in the IBEW 30 years. Our pension is self funded, and has NEVER asked for a taxpayer dime.
I do NOT get paid holidays and vacations. I get paid for when I work, and get ZERO when off work. 1/2 of my pay raises go towards rising medical benefits. If I do not work 120 hrs a month, I get ZERO medical. When we retire, we get Health coverage for 6 months, not life.
These are FACTS, not BS propaganda.
Your FACTS are MYTHS to me.
My pension is based on how many hours I have worked, PERIOD. More hours contributed, more monthly benefit earned. It's every bit MY money as my SS contributions.(You know, the one our Govt. borrows from).
 
In my trade, apprentices go to night school for 5 years, and work 40 hours a week. They make wages compensurate to their skill level. They are used to lower the "composite" wage for bidding/installation. After 5 years, they must pass a test to prove their knowledge.
Maybe you would prefer an illegal imigrant that does not speak english, gets paid cash, and send all the money to Mexico and pays no taxes to wire your house.
 
big2bird said:
I have been in the IBEW 30 years. Our pension is self funded, and has NEVER asked for a taxpayer dime.
I do NOT get paid holidays and vacations. I get paid for when I work, and get ZERO when off work. 1/2 of my pay raises go towards rising medical benefits. If I do not work 120 hrs a month, I get ZERO medical. When we retire, we get Health coverage for 6 months, not life.
These are FACTS, not BS propaganda.
Your FACTS are MYTHS to me.
My pension is based on how many hours I have worked, PERIOD. More hours contributed, more monthly benefit earned. It's every bit MY money as my SS contributions.(You know, the one our Govt. borrows from).
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I thought we were talking in the context of UAW and GM. They get benes for life, and the rest of what I mention.

My FIL was in a union, he worked the docks in Elizabeth, NJ. Had his pension stolen, and yes, the taxpayer does back your pension. If your pension money gets stolen, or down the toilet, guess who gets to pay?:yahoo:
 
Jsup said:
big2bird said:
I have been in the IBEW 30 years. Our pension is self funded, and has NEVER asked for a taxpayer dime.
I do NOT get paid holidays and vacations. I get paid for when I work, and get ZERO when off work. 1/2 of my pay raises go towards rising medical benefits. If I do not work 120 hrs a month, I get ZERO medical. When we retire, we get Health coverage for 6 months, not life.
These are FACTS, not BS propaganda.
Your FACTS are MYTHS to me.
My pension is based on how many hours I have worked, PERIOD. More hours contributed, more monthly benefit earned. It's every bit MY money as my SS contributions.(You know, the one our Govt. borrows from).
Click to expand...

I thought we were talking in the context of UAW and GM. They get benes for life, and the rest of what I mention.

My FIL was in a union, he worked the docks in Elizabeth, NJ. Had his pension stolen, and yes, the taxpayer does back your pension. If your pension money gets stolen, or down the toilet, guess who gets to pay?:yahoo:
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The UAW wages account for approximately 3% of the cost of a car. Nothing to do with the big picture at all.

As for your FIL, I am not sure about the Longshoreman union at all. News to me about the bailout.

Look, I can see the stigma we face every day. Some IS true, some is not, and some is LONG gone and the stigma carrys on.
A worker living in America needs X dollars to survive. A worker in a 3rd world country needs less, and therefore makes less. Manufacturing is moving there claiming "unions killed us." However, quality has gone to shit, and the imported crap costs the SAME. Where did the money go? Wall street, via the Cayman Islands.LOL
 
Jsup said:
Unions negotiate the wage thru collective bargaining. Believe it or not, I have had pay cuts and lost some benefits thru the years. When work is good, we get raises. When work is slow, we give concessions. Putting companies out of business is not in our best interest.
Click to expand...

Well, see, that right there is part of the problem I have. A job is worth what it's worth and has no bearing on company profitability. Period. Now, if the company chooses to profit share, that's one thing, but to make it part of the deal, that's another.
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Supply and demand. Economics 101
 
big2bird said:
Jsup said:
big2bird said:
I have been in the IBEW 30 years. Our pension is self funded, and has NEVER asked for a taxpayer dime.
I do NOT get paid holidays and vacations. I get paid for when I work, and get ZERO when off work. 1/2 of my pay raises go towards rising medical benefits. If I do not work 120 hrs a month, I get ZERO medical. When we retire, we get Health coverage for 6 months, not life.
These are FACTS, not BS propaganda.
Your FACTS are MYTHS to me.
My pension is based on how many hours I have worked, PERIOD. More hours contributed, more monthly benefit earned. It's every bit MY money as my SS contributions.(You know, the one our Govt. borrows from).

The UAW wages account for approximately 3% of the cost of a car. Nothing to do with the big picture at all.

As for your FIL, I am not sure about the Longshoreman union at all. News to me about the bailout.

Look, I can see the stigma we face every day. Some IS true, some is not, and some is LONG gone and the stigma carrys on.
A worker living in America needs X dollars to survive. A worker in a 3rd world country needs less, and therefore makes less. Manufacturing is moving there claiming "unions killed us." However, quality has gone to shit, and the imported crap costs the SAME. Where did the money go? Wall street, via the Cayman Islands.LOL
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