C3/4/5 frankenstein frame

[SuperBuickGuy]

when looking for stronger, CV, IRS - G8/Camaro. Best of all, if you get beyond its 750 hp factory limit, companies make bolt-in replacements. Also, I used the SS rear suspension in my car - it's 4" wider wheelbase, but if you use the V6 arms, you're only 2" wider then stock. we'll see in the next year how it works.... so very close to driving mine.

 

[mfain]

when looking for stronger, CV, IRS - G8/Camaro. Best of all, if you get beyond its 750 hp factory limit, companies make bolt-in replacements. Also, I used the SS rear suspension in my car - it's 4" wider wheelbase, but if you use the V6 arms, you're only 2" wider then stock. we'll see in the next year how it works.... so very close to driving mine.

Can't wait to see your car on the road....and on track. We put a Camaro third member under my brother's Jag and used C6 control arms and a narrowed C6 cradle. Worked pretty slick.

 

[mfain]

...sigh
If I can (more likely, the fab shop that its at right now) come up with a solution to get that upper link on the C4 knuckle, Im all for keeping it. The Deca-link knuckle could be a good solution for me if that doesnt pan out. Number one problem with a project that takes this long is that new ideas and products come out AFTER Ive aready designed everything else around a (now) outdated part.
Hell, Im already thinking about ditching the 427 and 6 speed for a SB2.2 and BMW DCT with a clutch pedal. :ill:

I would really like to see you plans for a DCT. Watching videos of the C8 on track shows how valuable that can be. I have looked at a couple of sequential transmissions, but the price for a good set-up is off the charts.

Talk about project creep and technology moving faster than a project can keep up, I have had 5 rear suspensions under my 56 track car - stock rear end, Pontiac on ladder bars, C-3 conversion, C-4 conversion, and the Detroit Speed Decalink, all in short span of 45 years. LOL I feel your pain.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

when looking for stronger, CV, IRS - G8/Camaro. Best of all, if you get beyond its 750 hp factory limit, companies make bolt-in replacements. Also, I used the SS rear suspension in my car - it's 4" wider wheelbase, but if you use the V6 arms, you're only 2" wider then stock. we'll see in the next year how it works.... so very close to driving mine.

Can't wait to see your car on the road....and on track. We put a Camaro third member under my brother's Jag and used C6 control arms and a narrowed C6 cradle. Worked pretty slick.

View attachment 2400

I can't either, but I'm forcing myself to wait for things like getting the steering column to actually stay in place... this is kind of a new thing for me :chinese:

 

[vette427sbc]

I would really like to see you plans for a DCT. Watching videos of the C8 on track shows how valuable that can be. I have looked at a couple of sequential transmissions, but the price for a good set-up is off the charts.

Talk about project creep and technology moving faster than a project can keep up, I have had 5 rear suspensions under my 56 track car - stock rear end, Pontiac on ladder bars, C-3 conversion, C-4 conversion, and the Detroit Speed Decalink, all in short span of 45 years. LOL I feel your pain.

The guy that started the LSx / BMW DCT thread on pro-touring lives behind my shop... I get first hand info on his trials and tribulations. Not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing because the more he talks about it the more I want to put one in my car after hes got the kinks worked out. It helps that hes got a C3 vette too for fitment notes.
I know Ill never drive this thing, and go broke if Im always trying to keep up with the latest and greatest. Not fair!


SBG- Im excited to see how yours all pans out as well... but you have no say in extended projects... You build whole cars faster than anyone here :crylol:
Ill definitely keep the 'maro diffs in mind though

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I would really like to see you plans for a DCT. Watching videos of the C8 on track shows how valuable that can be. I have looked at a couple of sequential transmissions, but the price for a good set-up is off the charts.

Talk about project creep and technology moving faster than a project can keep up, I have had 5 rear suspensions under my 56 track car - stock rear end, Pontiac on ladder bars, C-3 conversion, C-4 conversion, and the Detroit Speed Decalink, all in short span of 45 years. LOL I feel your pain.

The guy that started the LSx / BMW DCT thread on pro-touring lives behind my shop... I get first hand info on his trials and tribulations. Not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing because the more he talks about it the more I want to put one in my car after hes got the kinks worked out. It helps that hes got a C3 vette too for fitment notes.
I know Ill never drive this thing, and go broke if Im always trying to keep up with the latest and greatest. Not fair!


SBG- Im excited to see how yours all pans out as well... but you have no say in extended projects... You build whole cars faster than anyone here :crylol:
Ill definitely keep the 'maro diffs in mind though

heh, it's what I do... have no life, build cars.... :thankyou:

 

[phantomjock]

:beer:

heh, it's what I do... have no life, build cars.... :thankyou:

:beer:

 

[BBShark]

Knocked this out tonight... small heat shield for the oil cooler lines and electrical going to the PS pump and alternator. .035" Titanium

I have fuel lines and starter wires running very close to the headers. The fuel lines are maybe 5/8 inch away from the headers and I have them wrapped with a heat jacket and another layer of DEI heat shield with ceramic backing. That leaves me with about a 1/4 clearance. I like what you did with the titanium shield. I am thinking my main problem will be radiant heat and the titanium might be a way to address that problem. Also my pipes merge at the starter and there is very little clearance between the starter wires and header tubes. I do have a blanket that wraps around the starter but it really does not offer any protection from radiant heat. Maybe a shield there would work?

 

[vette427sbc]

I have fuel lines and starter wires running very close to the headers. The fuel lines are maybe 5/8 inch away from the headers and I have them wrapped with a heat jacket and another layer of DEI heat shield with ceramic backing. That leaves me with about a 1/4 clearance. I like what you did with the titanium shield. I am thinking my main problem will be radiant heat and the titanium might be a way to address that problem. Also my pipes merge at the starter and there is very little clearance between the starter wires and header tubes. I do have a blanket that wraps around the starter but it really does not offer any protection from radiant heat. Maybe a shield there would work?

I would think so, the air gap is important in preventing the transfer of heat. On alot of the newer cars with turbos tucked right up next to electrical components it looks (to me) like they focus more on a good heat shield and distance/airflow than excessive heat wrap on the harnesses.
I assume your fuel system is return style? That should help with heat soak of the line too.

 

[phantomjock]

EV-style Questions

Chris -

Well not exactly EV, just a few questions on electro-hydraulic pumps you're using.

Doing a quick rewind to some of the posts (180-ish). Is that a Mercedes Pump you installed for the steering? I can't make out the part number, but it has the looks. I'm considering similar, either that or the Porsche 966 version - but they want nearly $200 shipping - so that may tip the deal.

Any feedback on it yet? You are using it to power the Sweet Rack--right? Looks like it plumbed in nicely.

Also, what was your choice of pump for the Hydroboost?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers - Jim

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I have fuel lines and starter wires running very close to the headers. The fuel lines are maybe 5/8 inch away from the headers and I have them wrapped with a heat jacket and another layer of DEI heat shield with ceramic backing. That leaves me with about a 1/4 clearance. I like what you did with the titanium shield. I am thinking my main problem will be radiant heat and the titanium might be a way to address that problem. Also my pipes merge at the starter and there is very little clearance between the starter wires and header tubes. I do have a blanket that wraps around the starter but it really does not offer any protection from radiant heat. Maybe a shield there would work?

I would think so, the air gap is important in preventing the transfer of heat. On alot of the newer cars with turbos tucked right up next to electrical components it looks (to me) like they focus more on a good heat shield and distance/airflow than excessive heat wrap on the harnesses.
I assume your fuel system is return style? That should help with heat soak of the line too.

I'm not an expert by any stretch, but the heat stuff you've used (the wrinkly DEI stuff) can be in direct contact and won't have any heat transfer nor does it break down with direct contact. It's pretty amazing stuff, I used to think there was no difference but DEI really stepped up the game and what they make now - I won't use anything else because I hate doing things twice.

 

[vette427sbc]

Chris -

Well not exactly EV, just a few questions on electro-hydraulic pumps you're using.

Doing a quick rewind to some of the posts (180-ish). Is that a Mercedes Pump you installed for the steering? I can't make out the part number, but it has the looks. I'm considering similar, either that or the Porsche 966 version - but they want nearly $200 shipping - so that may tip the deal.

Any feedback on it yet? You are using it to power the Sweet Rack--right? Looks like it plumbed in nicely.

Also, what was your choice of pump for the Hydroboost?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers - Jim

Hey jim- it’s a Mercedes A-class pump from VDO. During my research, this was supposed to be the pump that the Porsche 996 cup cars were using. They then switched to a pump from an opel which looks much more difficult to package in my car. I think mine was about 400$ remanufactured shipped here from across the pond. It is only powering the sweet rack (no hydroboost, manual brakes forever!), which during testing seemed to perform well. I tested it on asphalt as well as my garage floor in an attempt to “torture test” it and it performed well. Quick direction changes like on a tight autocross didnt seem to phase the pump, although a very slight delay could be felt. I imagine that delay wouldnt be noticed if the car was rolling. I took a video in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPV_pjWuA4k&feature=youtu.be

 

[phantomjock]

Electro-Hydraulic Steering Pump

Chris - Thanks for that input. I'm nearing "trigger-Pull" on those bits. Just pulled the unused (NOS?) KRC pump off today. Also the Serpentine Water Pump (Reverse flow). Those will soon all be excess to requirements - moving to a Proform electric drive water pump.

CV Axles! ARGGHHH. That was a loong 18 month effort and brought me to a standstill. I admit I think Pappy went the right way as I recall (get DriveLine/Shaft) to build them for you. Time IS money. I did mine a bit at a time; cut down and cryo treated out west - that was 6 months, then the reassemble. I had a buddy that needed some work so let it slide. I think CVs are the right way to go. And I can't top Pappy's claim to IRS fame I'm now on #5 and settling in. In a few days I'll add updates to my thread that has been languishing.

Thanks again!

Cheers - Jim

 

[vette427sbc]

With my car still held up at the fab shop, I get antsy and need a project to keep myself somewhat sane... Im beginning the process of switching from my 6 speed to a 7 speed DCT from a BMW. Depending on when I get the car back, Ill likely run it for a season as-is while I collect parts, but my neighbor who is doing something similar has loaned me his transmission and adapter to take measurements and start the planning process.
It seems like a very cool piece of equipment...
7 speed, 1:1 final drive (low driveshaft speeds)
near instantaneous shifts
electronic clutch pedal for launching or clutch kick
no gear whine or clunky (around town type driving) shifts like a dog box, soft shifting mode at the press of a button
stock form holds around 600hp
My goal is to have this trans and a ~35x cube SB2.2 ready to drop into a sorted chassis next year. Until then, Ill keep dreaming of clicking gears down the back straight at 8k RPM :goodnight:

Heres a video if this trans in action
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WORctA_CKdY[/ame]

 

[mfain]

That is going to be cool! Question - Does your EFI throttle body have an integral drive-by-wire throttle drive motor? My Wilson throttle body did not, so I had to adapt a BMW throttle drive motor (firewall mounted) to work through the ECU in conjunction with a Cadillac electronic throttle pedal. Like you, I needed that for the auto-blip for downshifts. I ended up with an RTS 6XD 6-speed sequential.

 

[vette427sbc]

That is going to be cool! Question - Does your EFI throttle body have an integral drive-by-wire throttle drive motor? My Wilson throttle body did not, so I had to adapt a BMW throttle drive motor (firewall mounted) to work through the ECU in conjunction with a Cadillac electronic throttle pedal. Like you, I needed that for the auto-blip for downshifts. I ended up with an RTS 6XD 6-speed sequential.

That RTS is a BAD ass transmission... But the cost is what turned me onto this DCT. The SB2 will be ITB, so Im still trying to figure out what to do for that... There are no (readily available) off the shelf ITB manifolds for this head. (theres actually a used one on ebay right now, but the TB's look too big) Ive been looking at making a manifold that will utilize an OEM throttle body like the BMW s65 throttle bodies, which would be: a) cheap, b) easy to come by, c) already fitted for TPS and DBW. The S65 TB's may be too small though, being designed for an 8400 RPM 4.0L V8. The non definite answer is that they are 54mm bore. Still LOTS to do before I get to that point though.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

cool plan, can't wait to see it happen.

 

[BBShark]

I understand just a little of what you are describing. I am amazed at how modern OEM vehicle components and aftermarket can me mixed/matched and communicate with each other.

Very cool.

 

[vette427sbc]

cool plan, can't wait to see it happen.

Me too!

I understand just a little of what you are describing. I am amazed at how modern OEM vehicle components and aftermarket can me mixed/matched and communicate with each other.

Very cool.

I can get the hardware side of things going, but I tend to need a lot of help on the computer side :crylol:

 

[bobs77vet]

I did like my Mustang, funny thing is that it was really easy to get in and out of, so when I am too old and fat for the vette i will go for a Mustang again, until then, put one of those in your vette i bet it would be awesome.