Decline of St Louis

[Sam Cogley]

One of these days I'll figure out how people who know so much about cars can be so clueless about everything else in the universe.

Sam Your comment regarding "Clueless" is a double edge sword. I grew up in that neighborhood. Road my bike, cruised the Steak & Shakes, the whole nine yards. Even got in trouble a few times with the law as I know teenagers have a way of doing. Never once did I or anyone I knew choose a cop. And btw, that was an era when young people had a problem with authority. I watched that neighborhood gradually go to shit in a hand-basket so please don't judge from that nice little college town u live in. I think this facebook post, by a black football player btw, sums it up better than anything I can provide. Most of you have probably seen this by now, but here it is anyway.


At some point while I was playing or preparing to play Monday Night Football, the news broke about the Ferguson Decision. After trying to figure out how I felt, I decided to write it down. Here are my thoughts:

I'M ANGRY because the stories of injustice that have been passed down for generations seem to be continuing before our very eyes.

I'M FRUSTRATED, because pop culture, music and movies glorify these types of police citizen altercations and promote an invincible attitude that continues to get young men killed in real life, away from safety movie sets and music studios.

I'M FEARFUL because in the back of my mind I know that although I'm a law abiding citizen I could still be looked upon as a "threat" to those who don't know me. So I will continue to have to go the extra mile to earn the benefit of the doubt.

I'M EMBARRASSED because the looting, violent protests, and law breaking only confirm, and in the minds of many, validate, the stereotypes and thus the inferior treatment.

I'M SAD, because another young life was lost from his family, the racial divide has widened, a community is in shambles, accusations, insensitivity hurt and hatred are boiling over, and we may never know the truth about what happened that day.

I'M SYMPATHETIC, because I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what happened. Maybe Darren Wilson acted within his rights and duty as an officer of the law and killed Michael Brown in self defense like any of us would in the circumstance. Now he has to fear the backlash against himself and his loved ones when he was only doing his job. What a horrible thing to endure. OR maybe he provoked Michael and ignited the series of events that led to him eventually murdering the young man to prove a point.

I'M OFFENDED, because of the insulting comments I've seen that are not only insensitive but dismissive to the painful experiences of others.

I'M CONFUSED, because I don't know why it's so hard to obey a policeman. You will not win!!! And I don't know why some policeman abuse their power. Power is a responsibility, not a weapon to brandish and lord over the populace.

I'M INTROSPECTIVE, because sometimes I want to take "our" side without looking at the facts in situations like these. Sometimes I feel like it's us against them. Sometimes I'm just as prejudiced as people I point fingers at. And that's not right. How can I look at white skin and make assumptions but not want assumptions made about me? That's not right.

I'M HOPELESS, because I've lived long enough to expect things like this to continue to happen. I'm not surprised and at some point my little children are going to inherit the weight of being a minority and all that it entails.

I'M HOPEFUL, because I know that while we still have race issues in America, we enjoy a much different normal than those of our parents and grandparents. I see it in my personal relationships with teammates, friends and mentors. And it's a beautiful thing.

I'M ENCOURAGED, because ultimately the problem is not a SKIN problem, it is a SIN problem. SIN is the reason we rebel against authority. SIN is the reason we abuse our authority. SIN is the reason we are racist, prejudiced and lie to cover for our own. SIN is the reason we riot, loot and burn. BUT I'M ENCOURAGED because God has provided a solution for sin through the his son Jesus and with it, a transformed heart and mind. One that's capable of looking past the outward and seeing what's truly important in every human being. The cure for the Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice and Eric Garner tragedies is not education or exposure. It's the Gospel. So, finally, I'M ENCOURAGED because the Gospel gives mankind hope.
------------------

It is unfortunate this all happened in St.Louis, it doesn't deserve all this. It could have happened anywhere and unfortunately I'm pretty sure it does.

I'm not an adherent to his religious beliefs, but overall I'm in 100% agreement with what he has to say. It's similar to MLK Jr.'s speech from 14 March 1968. I can certainly understand why people would be so pissed off as to riot, feeling that their voice has no other way to be heard, while at the same time understanding that it's usually very counterproductive. The major exception would be the King riots in LA - the attention focused on the corrupt mess of the LAPD in the aftermath led to massive and necessary changes.

The problems of robber baron-esque levels of wealth inequality, and what has essentially turned into a criminalization of being poor, go beyond racial boundaries, but for various reasons they tend to hit minorities harder and earlier than poor Caucasians. That said, when I was still an assistant prosecutor I saw first hand just how damaging the mess we've made of the legal system has become to many people.

Did you see the article about the one police lieutenant in Ferguson who has been talking to the protesters, with positive results?

One of these days I'll figure out how people who know so much about cars can be so clueless about everything else in the universe.

Hey Sam, you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, you're the one who's clueless?
Just asking.

I consider that all the time. Then I re-analyze the situation and verify that I was just being paranoid. :flash:

 

[Kid Vette]

The problems of robber baron-esque levels of wealth inequality, and what has essentially turned into a criminalization of being poor, go beyond racial boundaries, but for various reasons they tend to hit minorities harder and earlier than poor Caucasians.

Interesting how the latest rant of liberals/progressives/democrats is "income equality". But where do you find the most egregious examples of income inequality? Right here in Kalifornia where Democrats control all the statewide offices and both branches of the legislature. It is their policies that are driving income inequality. :crap:

 

[mrvette]

The problems of robber baron-esque levels of wealth inequality, and what has essentially turned into a criminalization of being poor, go beyond racial boundaries, but for various reasons they tend to hit minorities harder and earlier than poor Caucasians.

Interesting how the latest rant of liberals/progressives/democrats is "income equality". But where do you find the most egregious examples of income inequality? Right here in Kalifornia where Democrats control all the statewide offices and both branches of the legislature. It is their policies that are driving income inequality. :crap:

Hell, they do THAT Nationwide......all the 60's feel good crap Kennedy put forward....17 trillion spent for what???

 

[Ralphy]

Sam, what's the saying of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expect different results. These people, the poor if they don't change "THEIR" ways. They will still be where they are today. What it seems "THEY" want is someone to do it for them. I guess when you have a government seeming to do it, no change will happen. Look at all the help we as a country have provided how much have we spent? This great social experiment has been going on for over a half century for crying out loud!

Ralphy

 

[Bullshark]

Damn CNN!! They and the rest of the news media are more than half the problem. Headlines, 15 arrests in Ferguson last night. Actually there were 16 reported by local tv. 15 were from out of town, 9 from NY, California etc. No mention of that fact by CNN. Wish those low life shit bags would go crap in their own bed.

 

[Sam Cogley]

Damn CNN!! They and the rest of the news media are more than half the problem. Headlines, 15 arrests in Ferguson last night. Actually there were 16 reported by local tv. 15 were from out of town, 9 from NY, California etc. No mention of that fact by CNN. Wish those low life shit bags would go crap in their own bed.

The corporate media is not good for you...or anyone. Except the corporations who own it. :banghead:

 

[Sam Cogley]

Sam, what's the saying of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expect different results. These people, the poor if they don't change "THEIR" ways. They will still be where they are today. What it seems "THEY" want is someone to do it for them. I guess when you have a government seeming to do it, no change will happen. Look at all the help we as a country have provided how much have we spent? This great social experiment has been going on for over a half century for crying out loud!

Ralphy

People need jobs, and jobs that they can actually get to with available transportation (be it their feet, cars that may not be in the best repair, the city bus, whatever). There have been several studies which have proven that consciously or unconsciously, there is a racial bias in hiring. The exact same resume, with a name that sounds "white" or "black" attached, will get different responses. Poor, rural, white communities are suffering a lot of the same problems (while an assistant prosecutor, I worked in areas that were similar socioeconomically to the poor black urban areas you see on TV), and having similar crime issues. That doesn't make the news, because the news "story" is "scary black people."

According to FBI statistics, a black male between the ages of 18-29 is 21x more likely to be shot by police than a white male in the same age group, despite similar levels of criminal activity. Black Americans, especially males, get sent to jail for things (like possession of relatively small amounts of pot) that often don't even end up with charges, or with charges being dismissed/pled down, when a white person is involved. Crack cocaine still has higher sentences attached than powder, despite being chemically identical. The difference is that white Wall Street bankers don't use crack. I've waded through the numbers several times over the years out of professional curiosity, and they're depressing.

I'm not in favor of giving anyone special favors, I'm in favor of equality. Something that we are not doing a very good job of in this country.

The people rioting in Ferguson and elsewhere have a whole lot more reason to be pissed off and acting out than the riots you see after a sports team wins or loses a championship, that insane pumpkin festival mess out east this year, etc.

 

[Bullshark]

The people rioting in Ferguson and elsewhere have a whole lot more reason to be pissed off and acting out than the riots you see after a sports team wins or loses a championship, that insane pumpkin festival mess out east this year, etc.

:bs: Sam, that's a piss poor attempt to justify actions that have no place in our society today. They may have a reason to be pissed off in their mind, but absolutely no reason to riot and burn and break the law. Better read that football player's post again.

 

[Ralphy]

Sam really that's it? Maybe since it's black women that are probably having one of the largest growths in the work force. Your answer doesn't hold water? In fact it's many of these black women that will say they are fed up with black males.

Sam said, "Black Americans, especially males, get sent to jail for things (like possession of relatively small amounts of pot) that often don't even end up with charges, or with charges being dismissed/pled down, that whites just don't."

Did you ever consider black males may tend to be more likely to be repeat offenders. Even often having multiple charges of other offenses. You don't go to jail for small amounts of pot in America Sam. I was surprised to hear the black mayor of Atlanta that said he wants to close the revolving door of the jails. He wants to lock the key on these offenders. So Sam go call him and tell him he's all wrong.

Ralphy

 

[Sam Cogley]

Sam really that's it? Maybe since it's black women that are probably having one of the largest growths in the work force. Your answer doesn't hold water? In fact it's many of these black women that will say they are fed up with black males.

Sam said, "Black Americans, especially males, get sent to jail for things (like possession of relatively small amounts of pot) that often don't even end up with charges, or with charges being dismissed/pled down, that whites just don't."

Did you ever consider black males may tend to be more likely to be repeat offenders. Even often having multiple charges of other offenses. You don't go to jail for small amounts of pot in America Sam. I was surprised to hear the black mayor of Atlanta that said he wants to close the revolving door of the jails. He wants to lock the key on these offenders. So Sam go call him and tell him he's all wrong.

Ralphy

One big problem is that incarceration facilities, be they county jails or state prisons, are often a breeding ground for gang activity and criminal activity. On top of that, it's become so hard for someone to turn their life around with a conviction on their record that it's almost guaranteed that some will return to criminal activity.

People who are consistently violent need to be locked up. We need to figure out ways of diverting those who are caught for low-level criminal activity from committing future acts through rehabilitation programs or similar actions, and try to figure out why we have an issue with criminal activity not seen in other industrialized nations in the first place.

The incarceration rate in America is the highest on the planet, even over tyrannical regimes like the Chinese, Russians, and Iranians. That's an indication that something is seriously out of whack.

And if you think that being black means that someone is automatically more likely to either commit crimes or be a repeat offender, you:
1) might be racist; and/or
2) have never actually looked at the statistics.

For example, white and black youth use marijuana at similar rates. In the hopes that #1 isn't true, and that you're willing to learn from #2, I'll provide some solid information for your review. There's plenty more beyond that, but the numbers don't lie.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/us/marijuana-arrests-four-times-as-likely-for-blacks.html?_r=0
The "drug war" has failed miserably, just as Prohibition did 80 years ago. All it does is fuel and fund criminal gangs.

Also, I can provide plenty of links to information regarding the employment differences between black and white Americans. I look forward to reading the supporting evidence for your arguments.

 

[mrvette]

NYT and WaPost are both communist hack papers, I believe nothing printed in either one.....

:crutches:

 

[Garys 68]

There's no fixing this, the divide is getting wider.
The protest leaders will insist on less responsibility and more "free stuff". The major concession they got from the initial riots was excusing various warrants and fines. Sounds like rewarding bad behavior to me.
So the protesters will take their mindset and go one direction. This will result in everyone else taking their money and business and going another.
Wait and see what Ferguson looks like 1, 5, 10 years. The price they'll pay for guys like Sam excusing a lack of reason or accountability.
Oh yeah, Sam, my blonde, "augmented" ex got out of more traffic tickets than me.....damn, I didn't burn anything down because of that..
See, there's always some humor in any situation.

 

[MYBAD79]

I find it rather interesting that a jury evaluated all the evidence, talked with witnesses, evaluated their testimonies, sacrificed weeks of their lives doing all this.... And then some assholes who just happen to live in the same area think they know it all better and decide it's ok to start stealing stuff and damaging / burning other people's property.....
Why not get rid of all that silly justice system? Nothing but creating problems anyways, right ???

 

[mrvette]

I find it rather interesting that a jury evaluated all the evidence, talked with witnesses, evaluated their testimonies, sacrificed weeks of their lives doing all this.... And then some assholes who just happen to live in the same area think they know it all better and decide it's ok to start stealing stuff and damaging / burning other people's property.....
Why not get rid of all that silly justice system? Nothing but creating problems anyways, right ???

THREE day process, maybe four at most.....4 MONTHS???

how damn stupid lazy they can GET??? how many lawyers made a killing off this BS and just specifically at who's EXPENSE???? that is what I want to know, you know.....transparency, and shit???

 

[Kid Vette]

Wait and see what Ferguson looks like 1, 5, 10 years. The price they'll pay for guys like Sam excusing a lack of reason or accountability.

It'll look a lot like Detroit. Another place liberals have destroyed.

 

[mrvette]

Wait and see what Ferguson looks like 1, 5, 10 years. The price they'll pay for guys like Sam excusing a lack of reason or accountability.

It'll look a lot like Detroit. Another place liberals have destroyed.

Know what is really sad is seeing photos of Japan cities after the war, then comparing to American cities today

shocking.....Hiroshima today/Nagasaki today, vs Chicago/Detroit/Philly/NYC/Cleveland/St.Louis(without Corvette) so many others.....

 

[Kid Vette]

And if you think that being black means that someone is automatically more likely to either commit crimes or be a repeat offender, you:
1) might be racist; and/or
2) have never actually looked at the statistics.

I think you are the racist.

In 2008, although black youth accounted for just 16% of the youth population ages 10–17, they were involved in 52% of juvenile Violent Crime Index arrests and 33% of juvenile Property Crime Index arrests.

According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and Native Americans and Asians 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher.

The black arrest rate for most offenses — including robbery, aggravated assault and property crimes — is still typically two to three times their representation in the population.

Relative to their share of the population, African Americans commit dramatically more crime, especially violent crimes and murders, than whites do.

 

[7t9l82]

look also at black statistics in general, before the " great society" proposed by democrats and the implementation of welfare , divorce among blacks went from the lowest of all groups to the highest and single parent households also went lowest to highest. the poverty rate has steadily risen and so has the dropout rate. planned parenthood has murdered tens of millions of black children .(thats why margeret sanger created that group was to lower the black birth rate). the Black population bears a great deal of the blame themselves and needs to clean up its own mess. but the government bears a lot of the responsibility for creating another slave environment.
one day they will wake up and realize whats been done to them and rebel against the people that put them in this spot , oh wait could that be why the democrats want desperately to get illegal aliens here so they can vote? I'm not excusing one thing the black community does, but the democrats have sure helped them along.:bonkers:

 

[Garys 68]

Wait, we have a committee and $100K study that will fix everything!!!!!!
The Lt Gov. Kinder is the only one with a clue:
"Kinder said similar studies have been done since the 1960s. He doesn’t think this one, which “will gather dust on lots of shelves, will be an important part of the solution to Ferguson.”
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_018cc5a3-d3db-5296-a581-75ca49921153.html

 

[Garys 68]

Kid,
Don't you realize that much like the "hands up, don't shoot" fallacy, perception is reality. I'll even quote Jesse Jackson:
“There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

I'll stand by my thought that real racism is in expecting less reason and responsibility based on someones skin color.
That not only applies to cops with their actions, but also those like Sam who excuse bad behavior based on skin color.

Besides, 56% of people believe 85% of statistical facts are made up...
A little statistician humor....

And if you think that being black means that someone is automatically more likely to either commit crimes or be a repeat offender, you:
1) might be racist; and/or
2) have never actually looked at the statistics.

I think you are the racist.

In 2008, although black youth accounted for just 16% of the youth population ages 10–17, they were involved in 52% of juvenile Violent Crime Index arrests and 33% of juvenile Property Crime Index arrests.

According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and Native Americans and Asians 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher.

The black arrest rate for most offenses — including robbery, aggravated assault and property crimes — is still typically two to three times their representation in the population.

Relative to their share of the population, African Americans commit dramatically more crime, especially violent crimes and murders, than whites do.