Internal Body Aerodynamics
- Thread starter vette427sbc
- Start date
rtj
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
- Messages
- 3,141
Your first impression is this will be disappointing, but this guy is thinking.
Two interesting comments:
I always think of wing-in-ground-effect as increased lift for flying machines. But, for downforce it makes sense it will augment (as he says).
Also, he talks about the big vortex that mfain mentioned on page 1 benefitting brake cooling. I never realized that before. Although the video never mentions brake cooling, votices have low pressure cores. He does insert his cfd plots showing the big vortex.
He talks about rotating the drag vector, but I’m a bit skeptical in this application.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8BufOqfZlE[/ame]
Two interesting comments:
I always think of wing-in-ground-effect as increased lift for flying machines. But, for downforce it makes sense it will augment (as he says).
Also, he talks about the big vortex that mfain mentioned on page 1 benefitting brake cooling. I never realized that before. Although the video never mentions brake cooling, votices have low pressure cores. He does insert his cfd plots showing the big vortex.
He talks about rotating the drag vector, but I’m a bit skeptical in this application.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8BufOqfZlE[/ame]
Last edited:
rtj
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
- Messages
- 3,141
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPWoyNUmu7I[/ame]
Nice overview.
Here is his channel. No use linking them all here. That way he gets clicks.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kyleengineers/videos?disable_polymer=1
Nice overview.
Here is his channel. No use linking them all here. That way he gets clicks.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kyleengineers/videos?disable_polymer=1
Last edited:
69427
The Artist formerly known as Turbo84
...................
Another thing worth noting is to somehow employ wheel spats... I believe these help with drawing air out through the spokes (assuming you dont have a tire to fender gap :amazed: )
I did a somewhat similar/cruder thing on my C4 in the mid nineties. I just made a Gurney flap sorta thing at the front edge of the front wheel well lips to create a (bruteforce) low pressure area to help evacuate the air out of the wheel wells. I have the usual air intakes and hoses to feed air to the front rotors, and just added the flaps to increase the pressure gradient to help pull out the air.
mfain
Well-known member
There is a "sticky" written by Ron Sutton on Aerodynamics for Track Cars on the Lateral-G forum. It is fairly basic, and in plain English - written from a practical application point of view. I guess it is permissible to post a link. If not, Admin can delete. https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48400
Pappy
Pappy
phantomjock
Well-known member
BRILLIANT -- Andrew Brilliant-
rtj - thanks for bringing the viedos by.
Andrew has been a "fixture" over at SpeedHunters for a number of years. Has made a lot of development happen in Japan for a number of "time-trialers." Many of his "vectored" ideas have worked over into World Rally Competition, diffusers, flares, etc. I recall he also provided aero consulting to JDM for aftermarket wings, etc.
He has proven worthy of his last name.
Cheers - Jim
Pappy - thanks for the Sutton reminder. Its been a while since I've been by there.
rtj - thanks for bringing the viedos by.
Andrew has been a "fixture" over at SpeedHunters for a number of years. Has made a lot of development happen in Japan for a number of "time-trialers." Many of his "vectored" ideas have worked over into World Rally Competition, diffusers, flares, etc. I recall he also provided aero consulting to JDM for aftermarket wings, etc.
He has proven worthy of his last name.
Cheers - Jim
Pappy - thanks for the Sutton reminder. Its been a while since I've been by there.
mfain
Well-known member
Here is something you may find interesting. Look carefully at the spoilers on these C-7s (blue is the low spoiler and the white car has the more aggressive, taller spoiler with end plates). The airflow on the blue car is more horizontal indicating less downforce, but also low drag. The upward flow of air off of the white car produces more downforce, but also more drag. These cars were at 180 mph or above at Mojave.
Pappy
Pappy
mfain
Well-known member
Okay, more fender well evacuation/brake cooling techniques. On the Viper (and the new ZR1), there are ducts in the front fascia that route air to narrow vertical slits in front of the tires near the outer body skin (see photos). This air is aimed a little outside of the wheel and, in conjunction with the vortexes off of the dive planes, contributes to a low air pressure area outside of the wheel well that is supposed to draw air through the brakes. The front ducts also smooth the airflow around the nose of the car. Edit: Notice the vortex generator at the bottom, outboard end of the splitter.
Pappy
Pappy
Last edited:
GT6Steve
Well-known member
While not a Corvette I've done a lot of Aero work under the hood of my little Triumph racecar. Principally focused on developing a delta across the rad but also to limit lift as much as my rules allow. I've used the Jaguar E-types as my example.
Point is, the corrugated plastic board as used in the political signs has proven light, strong and DIRT CHEAP. as a closure material. There will be a lot of it available soon LOL
Point is, the corrugated plastic board as used in the political signs has proven light, strong and DIRT CHEAP. as a closure material. There will be a lot of it available soon LOL
vette427sbc
Well-known member
Pappy- You and Jim both mentioned vortex generators on the front body work and Im not 100% sure what piece of aero Im looking at in reference. Is it the two curved carbon pieces on the outside of the bumper?
Ive always thought they were these:
Maybe they are the same, just rotated sideways?
Regarding the vent... Anything fancy or noteworthy about the ductwork? Looks to be similar size inlet/outlet?
EDIT: I see the VG on the end of the splitter now... upside down
Last edited:
phantomjock
Well-known member
rtj-
Nice find! Just found that myself today! How about the Mercedes. I'll post some of their "air curtain" details. Amazingly low Cd for a box car.
The Ferrari curtain appears to be all "done" with vectoring the flow and then turning with the vane. I've not seen any of their drag data, but the flow analysis is cool.
Staying with Ferrari first. Here is the rear wheel treatment - also nice:
Now Mercedes. I'll use their words:
Side view:
Dimensions are approximate from a Mercedes forum:
Could make for an interesting weekend with some sheet metal, snips, and rivets. A little tuft study anyone?
Cheers - Jim
Nice find! Just found that myself today! How about the Mercedes. I'll post some of their "air curtain" details. Amazingly low Cd for a box car.
The Ferrari curtain appears to be all "done" with vectoring the flow and then turning with the vane. I've not seen any of their drag data, but the flow analysis is cool.
Staying with Ferrari first. Here is the rear wheel treatment - also nice:
Now Mercedes. I'll use their words:
Side view:
Dimensions are approximate from a Mercedes forum:
Could make for an interesting weekend with some sheet metal, snips, and rivets. A little tuft study anyone?
Cheers - Jim
rtj
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
- Messages
- 3,141
I follow Duntov on FB. They posted this unique mounting for lowered cars. Looks like scoops for cooling molded in to the spoiler. Hopefully they won’t mind me sharing.
Might be the same spoiler that’s been around a while and just mounted way high.
Might be the same spoiler that’s been around a while and just mounted way high.
mfain
Well-known member
Pappy- You and Jim both mentioned vortex generators on the front body work and Im not 100% sure what piece of aero Im looking at in reference. Is it the two curved carbon pieces on the outside of the bumper?
Ive always thought they were these:
Maybe they are the same, just rotated sideways?
Regarding the vent... Anything fancy or noteworthy about the ductwork? Looks to be similar size inlet/outlet?
EDIT: I see the VG on the end of the splitter now... upside down
The vents are somewhat tapered which will increase air velocity at their discharge point. They go from 5.5"X1.25" inlet to 6"X.75" outlet. You are right about the VG on the splitter. Also, on the dive planes (the curved carbon fiber pieces you mention) notice that they have a small fence on their outside edges. The sharp end at the back of the fence acts as a VG and creates the Vortex.
Pappy
phantomjock
Well-known member
He'd need to:
1. move the engine aft, or
2. smaller radiators, maybe one in each duct?, or
3. lengthen the nose. Like a Greenwood.
2. smaller radiators, maybe one in each duct?, or
3. lengthen the nose. Like a Greenwood.
Not to mention design and build/install the ducts!
All would do the job - with perhaps VERY significant improvements.
If focused on "other than daily driving" or enduros, there might be a lot of areas to reduce internal aerodynamic drag [the original poster's concerns and we've all done some drifting here...]
Most club courses tend to run less than 30 minutes, AX is way short, so in some ways cooling drag can go waaay down. When augmented with fans and "vectored appropriately" get some cooling with a bit of downforce to boot?
Just thinking...
Cheers - Jim
