Looking for advice on my body work

[bhays]

I just joined the forum. Saudivette directed me over here from another forum we are both on. I wasn't getting much knowledgeable help and when Saudi sent me a PM with the url for this forum, their software blocked it out... things that make you go hmmm..

At any rate, I am hoping those of you more knowledgeable with fiberglass can help me along with my project, which I am probably in way over my head on.

Let me be honest about this. I bought this car about 10 years ago as a driver. At the time I had sold an Internet business and was going to have a checkbook car, life got in the way and it has been in my parent's barn for almost 10 years now. Lost my butt on a web design firm, etc. and now this will be a diy project, which I have learned is so much more rewarding anyway. The absolute last thing I am is someone who wants the easy way out, I am willing to put in the hours, but am really clueless on where to start. If advice is given, it will be followed... tell me something to read, I will do it..

Since then I have worked on a couple of other car projects (all metal) and now am dangerous with body work and my friend who is helping is a lot better than me. However, neither of us have fiberglass experience at all. I wanted to start a thread here and beg for a bit of help. I am not afraid to read and learn and I want to learn how to do this stuff for myself, I will be eternally grateful to those who would share their knowledge and perhaps some others can learn along with me.

It's a 1982 Convertible conversion, brand new crate motor with TPI (10 years old, never turned over but been all closed up) will cross that bridge when I get to it. All VB & P suspension, C5 convertible decklid and waterfall and C5 mirrors molded in 10 years ago, as well as antenna, door handles and lock cylinder holes filled.

The plan is tear it totally back down and do a total frame off. I want to make an updated 1982 in the vein of the new camaro / challenger, etc.

The upgrades planned are:
body mods
molded in front and rear bumpers
filled side markers
corvette script from C5 in rear bumper (yep, Saudivette already has a copycat :wink
front license plate area filled and C5 plate cover script molded
still deciding on hood
Flares front and rear
Fiberglass covers for windshield surround

Mechanical
Rack and Pinion (steeroids?)
Hydroboost and big brake kit of some sort

Interior
Custom fiberglass dash and console or Camaro console & dash
Some other mods in there as well...

I have rounded up materials so far:

That stripper did absolutely nothing by the way, and has been replaced by a roll of 80 grit d/a pads :lol: I have also ordered some aluminum rollers, gel coat to do my C5 mold project and veil cloth.

I got a good 8 hours of sanding in today and have the rear clip all down to glass. Of course, I have questions. I am used to taking it to bare metal and starting to weld in patch panels, this is a whole new world to me.

This rear deck is a mess. Keep in mind, though, this is a convertible conversion. If I were to get a new deck, I would still have to fill the vents and move the gas filler hole on the new one. Should I try to grind out and repair all of these spots individually or try to do it all in one big layer?

The driver's side has cloth weave showing through on the seam where the deck lid was bonded and on a repair, I assume just grind these out and glass them back in with mat? Correct?

The passenger side looks good, nice clean seam. Would this be a panel that was ready for epoxy primer and body work? (the plan calls for filling in the marker light and a fender flare, but I want to learn when a panel is ready)

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Hey welcome, I remember you from years and years ago on CF. You're Brett Hays right? Remember you having an email addy with hoosiermedia or something to that extent (I have a good memory )? Remember the C5 mirrors and waterfall, arizona speed and marine engine in metallic blue and what not. Figured you'd have the car done by now. Good to hear you haven't given up and still intend to finish the car.

Those cloth repairs need to go, grind out and redo with crushed fibers matte.

As for the deck, didn't ACI sell a deck conversion with the gas door hole in the correct spot? I'm pretty sure they do.

If your engine sat all that time, you might want to check the valve springs, some have been open all this time, the spring pressure may have dropped off significantly.

 

[saudivette]

Hi Brett, good to see you made it over here mate. I thought it was pretty childish of the other place to blank out the web address though. Anyway, lots of clever people in here :thumbs:

 

[mrvette]

Welcome to the motley crew of the Flying Dutchmen....


I just been there for some of those body mods, and note that Karsten has some of the same problems I had with body work, I will leave that area alone, just to say I don't like doing it....

on the mechanicals, the rack conversion is really fairly simple, you don't need steeroids at all, in fact, better off without them....I did my rack before they ever it the market, using some 1/4 the amount of steel in the supports, and they still there solid as ever, knock on wood.....:lol::noworry: all for less than 200 bux, and help from a welder buddy....

I too have a extensively modified car along the lines of what you thinking, and share the financial constraints....another DIY by default....

:tomato:

 

[bhays]

Hey welcome, I remember you from years and years ago on CF. You're Brett Hays right? Remember you having an email addy with hoosiermedia or something to that extent (I have a good memory )? Remember the C5 mirrors and waterfall, arizona speed and marine engine in metallic blue and what not. Figured you'd have the car done by now. Good to hear you haven't given up and still intend to finish the car.

Yep, it's me. Thanks for the welcome. I rode the Internet bubble up and right back down:hissyfit:. I probably funded the Eckler's Christmas party that year, and paid a lot of money to a local shop that appears to have been doing almost everything wrong. I made a lot of dumb decisions that year and have been digging out since.

I always intended to finish the car, just put it away until the time came around. Now I am really looking forward to doing it myself and learning in the process. It will mean so much more to me when it's done anyway, plus it's unfinished business to me now.

Those cloth repairs need to go, grind out and redo with crushed fibers matte.

As for the deck, didn't ACI sell a deck conversion with the gas door hole in the correct spot? I'm pretty sure they do.

I think they might, but it also has the vents that I would want to fill in, so really if you think about bonding it back in... it's about a wash just to fix this one. I am just wondering whether I should try to do individual spots or just 'v' out to the nearest good glass and do a big giant repair all at once.

If your engine sat all that time, you might want to check the valve springs, some have been open all this time, the spring pressure may have dropped off significantly.

Thanks for the tip, that is coming sometime this winter and I will be all ears as to advice from those who know more (which is everyone at this point :sweat For now, my plan is to do most of the body mods and repairs (flares, fill in the markers, etc.), then pull the body back off and do my chassis stuff, then body back on, mold on the bumpers and paint..

Thanks for leading me here, Saudi. And Mr. Vette, I am going to be wearing you out with questions on the rack and pinion in a couple of months..

Thanks guys!

 

[bhays]

I am still working on paint removal and getting ready to start repairs. I ordered a dvd from Ecklers on fiberglass & SMC repair and it is a big help to see the work done hands on.

http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?pf_id=46384&dept_id=227

In the video, they make a big deal of saying that when making repairs on an SMC panel (as opposed to basic fiberglass) it is very important to use another piece of SMC with adhesive as a backer plate. In my case, I want to fill in my marker lights.

I don't have any spare body parts lying around to use for that purpose. Could I use some epoxy resin and mat to make up some flat panels to use or should I try to locate some junk body panels to cut up?

 

[camden]

just use the epoxy resin (i use west systems, you can use it as resin and then add some additives and make and adhesive out of it, and add another kind fo additive and make a filler out the same resin, very simple stuff)


I'd cut the "boxes" out that the markers set in and make you a bevel or a "v" around the entire rectangle edge and then glass over it. One thing i've learned from messing with glass is that there's prob 2-3 different ways of doing stuff, but some ideas are better and/or easier than others.

I changed my 79 front end to and 80-82 style, not knowing anything about our vettes and fiberglass and just cut out where the patch panel would cover and glassed it in from there. Now, knowing what i know I would've just seperated the panel along the bonding strip and cut up vertically where i needed. this would've made that job a lot easier!....I then had to replace my rear fender which came out great, and a lot "cleaner" of a job than my front fenders. Plus it looks like it was done professionally.

Anyways, let me know if you have any questions or pictures I usually keep records or everything i do. Hopefully I can direct you or someone else can!


Ryan

 

[bhays]

I'd cut the "boxes" out that the markers set in and make you a bevel or a "v" around the entire rectangle edge and then glass over it. One thing i've learned from messing with glass is that there's prob 2-3 different ways of doing stuff, but some ideas are better and/or easier than others.

So, don't use anything as a backer?

 

[mrvette]

I'd cut the "boxes" out that the markers set in and make you a bevel or a "v" around the entire rectangle edge and then glass over it. One thing i've learned from messing with glass is that there's prob 2-3 different ways of doing stuff, but some ideas are better and/or easier than others.

So, don't use anything as a backer?

I went to block out/fill in the vent grill panels on either side of the gas filler on my '72 vert, them fugly looking cast things....so I cut some plywood and screwed it down to back the random matt glass strand material...it's not cloth or that 1/4 inch roving....I beveled the edges pretty good like everyone says, and layed in some 2/3 layers of fiber material and resin....

someone said that wood is the problem on the backer, wish I knew that, as I could have done something different very easy...something is causing the patch to raise off the OEM glass and I have a gross looking edge there....

and it seemingly was caused by the paint, not the primer...so go figger...

at any rate, don't use wood for a backer...

 

[camden]

when i filled in my antenna hole and some other imperfection (which was alot larger)on the back deck. I covered the under part with tape, beveled the edges pretty far back, and then layed on top with smaller pieces and then getting larger as I worked my way to leveling it out. that was it was the same thickness as the original glass.

In your case you're right it's a little larger area and wouldn't hurt at all. You could do a backer piece or just fill it in on the exterior and then use a DA or sander and bevel your edges on the backside (or course not going through what you just layed down on the other side) and then lay your glass on top of that for your extra support. Of course let dry and sand smooth if you want a "clean" look underneath. Some people are very anal about seeing or feeling body repair/modifications on the backside of panels.

 

[camden]

I can take some pictures for you tonight if you want an idea. and I can show you what not to do when changing body panels and bonding strips! As for my front fenders you can definitley tell There's been some work done if you run you hand along the back/inside of the panel where i added the fenders at. Oh well, I sanded smooth as much as possible, but you can only do so much inside tight enclosed areas.

Ryan

 

[bhays]

I can take some pictures for you tonight if you want an idea. and I can show you what not to do when changing body panels and bonding strips! As for my front fenders you can definitley tell There's been some work done if you run you hand along the back/inside of the panel where i added the fenders at. Oh well, I sanded smooth as much as possible, but you can only do so much inside tight enclosed areas.

Ryan

Ryan, I would love to see some pictures; I am trying to learn as much as possible.

I didn't want you guys to think I was being lazy, after three eight hour days (give or take) I have almost the entire thing down to bare glass... let the repairs/mods begin :nuts:

 

[BigBlockTank]

Whatever you do, DO NOT put any cloth or resin over any kind of contaminates, paint, dirt, or anything else. Always clean the surfaces before laying up any glass and resin. The right rear quarter panel looks as though it could be ready for some primer and a guide coat, hard to tell in the pictures.
Oh, welcome to this forum, it it THE best forum on the web.
Now, a bit about why I responded. I am retired military, (aircraft) sheetmetal, composites, tubing and painting was my job for 20 years, I have done this stuff a bit. I'm still not an expert, just an advanced novice. I will check back and see if I can add anything that somebody hasn't already said.

There are a group of smart people in this forum, I'm glad to be associated with THIS forum!!
BBTank

 

[bhays]

Ok, my first fiberglass experience ever tonight. I started with a couple of small spots to see if I can get the hang of this.

The shop where the car had been glassed in this '82 filler neck in order to move it down so I could use an '82 tank with in tank pump. The filler neck is smc and the deck lid is from a '75 or earlier. The patch from the old filler is polyester in the old deck so I guess I can probably leave that?

This is textbook example of the failure of using polyester resin on smc I suppose as it had bonded with the older glass deck just fine but completely just flaked right off of the smc piece.

I didn't want to have too much to grind out if I totally messed this up, plus I didn't want to do all four sides at once since it would have to be clamped into place or something.

So I ground out two sides...

That slice on the bottom was already there from the previous work and a piece of polyester resin/mat popped out of it.

Then I cut three pieces of mat for each side, wide, medium and thin. I laid them out on aluminum foil and mixed my smc resin and saturated them, then laid them in widest piece first and used a roller to get all the bubbles out..

Did I do anything horribly wrong or is this the basic idea? Thanks for putting up with my total newbness... want to learn all I can.

 

[bhays]

I think I screwed up my first attempt. I thought I used plenty of hardener but it has been 48 hours and it's still not 100% cured. It is curing, it's just taking forever. There is only a very small area still tacky at this point and by morning it ought to be totally dry. It has been in the garage, no sun and we have had about 85 percent humidity here the last couple of days.

Do I need to grind all this back out and start over, or do you think it's ok if it does actually finally dry? The can said it would start to set up in 30 minutes, which it did , but didn't say total curing time.

 

[BigBlockTank]

Put a heat lamp on it. But don't get scared if you do. The heat lamp WILL make it get soft again, but should harden after that. Don't get it too close and burn it, just heat it. If you have a pyrometer, I would say around 125-130* should be OK. I had different lights in the Air Force, so it's hard to convert into civilian life sometimes.
You did really good by putting the cloth/matte on the aluminum foil and wetting it down, but if you do that again, start with the narrow piece first. It's kinda like constructing a building, but opposite. The top is the wide sections. If you can dish the repair area out, say with a D/A (orbital sander, not grinder) it'll make the finished product alot easier to sand. Find and use micro-ballons with resin to fill any pin holes. (mix ballons w/ resin, stir well, add hardner, spread with bondo spreader) It makes it a litte harder to sand, but a better finished job that is less suseptable (?SP) to cracking.
This is just some of what I learned in the Air Force for doing composite repair, only our stuff flew at mach 2-3+.


BBTank

 

[bhays]

Thanks. I wiped it down with acetone and it seemed to be fine once I did that. Sanded fine, etc. I suppose I should go a little stiffer on the hardener next time. It's odd to me that this liquid resin comes with a cream hardener, but it seems to work fine.

I will get plenty of practice on this rear deck; it's a mess.

 

[Blackfinn]

BBT has given you "Spot on" advice. Heat lamps are a big help like BBT said and worth purchasing if you intend on doing a lot of glass work. If you don't have one you can also use a heat-gun/ blow-dryer as well.

Be careful with over doing the Hardener/catalyst. If you use too much hardener/catalyst, the resin will remain "rubbery or in extreme cases crystallize if it gets too hot too quick as it cures. Not enough will allow the styrene and other solvents or moisture to remain in the resin. If they don't all "flash" out it will shrink drastically later.

The careful use of heat from lamps or heat guns will completely cure the resin and keep it from shrinking later when it's out in the sun. The hardnesses and expansion/contraction rates of the materials will be different and the new materials really need to be heated to a greater temperature than they will reach out in the sun. The can or MDS for the resin will tell you the peak/limit temperature("exotherm" on the MDS), that the resin should reach for optimal curring and structural integrity. This "curring" should be done every time material/resin or fillers are added and before any sanding. It will keep 99% of any "print through" from showing up later. It would also pay to use a "Sweat-board" for sanding. Automotive paints are very unforgiving as to what is beneath them. it sounds like a lot of extremely difficult BS :sweat: but it's really not that hard once you get the hang of the material you are using.

Also as BBT suggested a DA is best or large round sander/grinder can be carefully used held just above flat for initial prep work. If you do use a grinder you should still use the DA to soften the edges. You really want to "feather" the edges of the reaccessed area. Hard lines and abrupt edges left by the grinder tend to print through later.

Custom work is a lot of fun.

Looks like you're on your way. Cheers

 

[bhays]

BBT has given you "Spot on" advice. Heat lamps are a big help like BBT said and worth purchasing if you intend on doing a lot of glass work. If you don't have one you can also use a heat-gun/ blow-dryer as well.

Do I need a body shop type infratech lamp or will the old heat lamp my dad used in the chicken coop on the baby chicks work?

 

[Blackfinn]

It should be fine. Depends on the heat range, as long as it will get hot enough. You can change the heat range by moving it closer or further from the project. I've used the little Halogen shoplights to cure paints and resins, they get pretty hot.