Minor Epiphany.....

Jsup said:
JPhil said:
I have infinately more respect for some high-school kid who asks questions & scrounges junkyards and cuts & welds on his car trying to make it run better :wink:, or even some east coast train driver who drives his old beater 500 miles round trip to race it & get his ass whupped every time :D, than I do for some wealthy egotist who can afford a bunch of cars all of which have all the most expensive parts, prettiest paint jobs, built by the best builders-- no matter how nice, how superior, they are.

I guess what's important to me is how much of one's SELF is put into the car--not how much money.

Seems whenever I go to car or bike shows, I spend as much time wandering around the parking lot looking at the oil-dripping, foo-foo can painted genuine street running vehicles as I do inside looking at the fancy-ass ones on show.
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I love when the guy with the shiny parts gets his ass handed to him

I think you nailed the difference between the people who build cars and the vision is the car as oppoes to the guy who buys parts and the parts are the point.
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I think of a 'vision' for any project as a well thought out plan for the future in any project....honestly, I never had that kind of foresight, on this car or any other, WIFE has the 'vision' over household projects, kitchens/baths, the like....I just have a rough idea of what to do, overall vision is something I have not had...the vette just evolved, the vision only encompassing one aspect at a time, not any far reaching plan....

like the rack project along with many others years ago....several at once, concurrently...was there a vision....HELL NO.....if one thing did not work something else was tried, that's about it....really....

:surrender:
 
What a great thread guys, It brings back some faith to me about whats happening in this hobby today. In the small city I'm living in now there is a small assortment of cars guys but I just can't connect with them for most of the reasons mentioned. There just isn't many guys here that I respect in the hobby. I'm going through a withdrawal of conversation. JPhil, your post hit the nail on the head on all points. I spend time in the parking lots of car show too. And if I see a young guy with any kind of V8 powered rear wheel drive street car no matter how "unfinished" I will make a point of talking to him and showing interest. It's usually a boost for them that the guy with the shiney blue hot rod mid year showed interest in what they're doing and I hope that it will keep them on the straight and narrow and stay away from imports. Plus I'm genuinely interested and willing to share my vast many years of knowledge of a wasted youth. The mention of working in the garage late on a weekend night while others are pissing it up against the wall was quite timely because I noted at approximately 2a.m. last night exactly the same thing with great satisfaction.
I'll repeat what I've been saying for a couple of years - if the paint wasn't so nice on my car it would be flat black in a second. Then most of the masses probably wouldn't notice me. Maybe then I could fill up at a gas staition with out some mindless fuck insisting that I light em up or having to engage in yet another brothers uncles story about yet another hemi powered Corvette sitting in a garage that just sold for a thousand dollars by mistake.
"We get our confirmation of self-worthiness from the acceptance & approval of our peers by a nod, a thoughful "Hmmm. I like that." But we only accept such confirmation from those we respect." Well said.......

And while I'm ranting, a couple of products that have picked my ass right or wrong, years ago while I was scrounging auto wreckers for bits and pieces and steering columns for hot rods, a manufacturer came out with a product. "Ididit" sterring columns. What the fuck. I did it? You did what? You did fuck all. You took out the credit card and bought a $600. steering column. And "Gennie" shifters. Genuine? Genuine what? You took out your credit card and bought a $400. shifter for an automatic. Gennie is/was a word in the vintage car world for a genuine/desirable part. These dicks don't even pronounce it right, most of the call it a 'geenie'. I guess they save time and save them from thinking........ Then they can go to car shows and we can look at row after row after row of Model A hot rods with 350engines/th350trans with ididit columns and "geenie" shifters.
Enough from me. :goodnight:
 
I would guess most of us older car guys hung around a gas station, or a shop that tolerated our presence, mainly a place that would let us use the lift once in a while, turned into the guys version of a coffee klatch as years went by, between wives, jobs, kids, etc....for about 35 years, that Exxon was always there, Pete took over from his father, they were all motor heads, everyone in management, even Ed, the intellectual of the bunch...almost all of the guys were college grads, most of the 'kids' as Larry and I called them had summer/PT jobs there, and a goodly number of them became LEO of one variety or another, One of which is a bicycle cop to this day, some 25? years now, in Bethesda Maryland, refused even promotions to stay on the job he loves ....
doing what he does....WTF??.....:shocking:

But with Pete's passing, the wife/kids turned it over to Ed the manager, and they wound up selling the station some years later, and of course the new owner tossed everyone out on their ass.....all things change, eventually....

The cars were always a steady thing, of ALL brands, heavy on Mopar though mainly because of Larry, but many of the 'kids' now have GREAT muscle cars of the 60's....GTO, F body, Mopars, Fords, you name it....

toward the end the clientele of the station did change, in came the ricer/poser kids with their Hondas.....we called them RJSS.....Rocket J Super Squirrel for their take off abilities after filling the tank with high test ONE wheel squeeling....wings, the lot, yet another change....

:beer::confused:
 
00fxd said:
And while I'm ranting, a couple of products that have picked my ass right or wrong, years ago while I was scrounging auto wreckers for bits and pieces and steering columns for hot rods, a manufacturer came out with a product. "Ididit" sterring columns. What the fuck. I did it? You did what? You did fuck all. You took out the credit card and bought a $600. steering column. And "Gennie" shifters. Genuine? Genuine what? You took out your credit card and bought a $400. shifter for an automatic. Gennie is/was a word in the vintage car world for a genuine/desirable part. These dicks don't even pronounce it right, most of the call it a 'geenie'. I guess they save time and save them from thinking........ Then they can go to car shows and we can look at row after row after row of Model A hot rods with 350engines/th350trans with ididit columns and "geenie" shifters.
Enough from me. :goodnight:
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Ya know what's funny, the biggest offenders that come to mind for me doing this are from Canada, so I got a good laugh coming from you....Thanks! Kinda restores my faith in the guys up north. You're the first guy from Canada that hasn't mentioned their dyno numbers! (teasing you)

You're describing what I call a "catalog custom" just a different selection of off the shelf parts. The fact that you picked the steering column from page 324 instead of 326 is what makes you unique, that no one selected the same combination of off the shelf crap. Yes, that is quite the issue.

Back to my original point as it relates to the guys who try to build a nice, original car which is within their budget and does what they want it to do and whose vision is the finished product, the CAR. Then you have the guy who buys the steering column you refer to and talks about it endlessly. To them it's the cool parts, not the total project. Even if that total project happens to have cool parts, that isn't the point.
 
Twin_Turbo said:
When I go to a wrecking yard, all I find it euro and jap shit!!
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At one time all that was dedicated yards, now a daze, there is a yard here in Jax that is dedicated to anything FORD, and FORD only....up north, I used to pick parts at Rockville GM, still in business, but forced to deal Ford and Mopar also recently....that town is all imports.....my son had a summer job knocking down cars there, he had NO idea I used to know all the guys, owner on down....oddball occurrence of ALL the outta the way places for him to find a job at....:shocking:
 
Quite a few interesting ideas here, all of which have been well expressed. I really think this part of JPhils sums it up best for me:

JPhil said:
I guess the difference is that 'they' seek approval (& regard it as respect) from a mass audience, where guys like me disdain the mass audience and seek only the actual respect of those few for whom we ourselves have respect.

And needless to say, there are varying degrees between both ends of the spectrum in all of us.

So in the end, we all seek the approval of our peers, but different personalities have different requirements to achieve this.
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I think it's interesting that we tend to gravitate to groups (and web sites) with people that have similar values rather than similar cars. I suppose this is the same as what you're saying.

Two other items that I found interesting this morning. The first is Jsup's comment on Canadian "catalog Custom" offenders. If I recall correctly, 00fxd is too young to remember the bad old days that probably resulted in this phenomenon. Throughout the 70s and 80s those of us in Ontario were becoming increasingly exposed to all things American such as car shows on TV and magazines. Even catalogs. But is was damned near impossible and ridiculously expensive to get your hands on these things. I suspect that some of this phenomenon is just pent up demand. This all kind of went away in the early 90s with NAFTA (along with the entire manufacturing sector).

The other thing that I still find interesting is the whole ricer culture. In a way, I think this has come from the evolution of cars and auto shops themselves. Many have lamented the demise of mechanics and auto shops. Most are now parts changing houses populated by technicians that can read diagnostics and follow part replacement protocols. Why should we expect younger enthusiasts to follow a different path? For good measure, our values in cars as a society really have changed too. There is still a place for power and speed, bt reliability and efficiency have become hallmarks. People get nostalgic when they see us drive by with a fuel spewing, sidepiped monsters, but they'd rather own a Lexus that will run flawlesly without much intervention for a couple of hundred thousand miles.
 
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You guys are talking about wrecking yards.
remind me, couples of friend of mine a couples of time a year we go out to car shows.
Sometimes I'll go by myself because we deliver regulary in Camp Hill Pa real close to Carlisle and Carlisle is a pretty busy place for car, truck, hotrods or whatever shows. Thers also Syracuse NY
When we go we always have a list of who needs what from other friends.
Now the most fun we have is probably at the swap meet.
Man we come back from there at the camper or the hotel room and were all dirty from scrounging thru the parts all day long.

Much more fun than ordering parts from a catalog or beeing impress by those Hemi powered Vette types.
 
For decades, I have found a lot of fun times and even peaceful times in the sunshine even winters, long as not too much snow on the ground, searching parts in the junkyards.....I find it entertaining, and thrill of the 'FIND'.....

I guess Larry and I always went separately for a goodly number of years, as to life, kids, commitments....but on chance day we went together, and I was shocked to hear him say the same comments as above,

at that point we started talking about all the cars in the freeking yard....

warped minds think alike, I guess.....

good thing wife is tolerant.....

first one that is.....

even when I start in cussing.....

HEY, got that damn van lit again....

:devil::thumbs::smash:
 
For me the parts are only just as important as they way they are put together to create something that is unique and says its is built by this or that guy...
 
Mike, I'm just about 52 so I have been around a while. I have not noticed US or Canadians being too much different when it comes to styles. I do know that in Canada components have been traditionally way too expensive which may have driven more imagination in Canadian builds but we also still have far too many of the 'elite' and their credit card builds. There is an aspect of the import scene that I don't hate, it just personal choice for the most part as long as its done with good taste. I just like to expose the young guys to north american rwd cars if I can. For me import/fwd is not an option in any way. When guys are building streets rods they may use import seats, door handles etc. Not me. It's principle - no import components.
 
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00fxd said:
Mike, I'm just about 52 so I have been around a while. I have not noticed US or Canadians being too much different when it comes to styles. I do know that in Canada components have been traditionally way too expensive which may have driven more imagination in Canadian builds but we also still is far too many of the 'elite' and their credit card builds. There is an aspect of the import scene that I don't hate, it just personal choice for the most part as long as its done with good taste. I just like to expose the young guys to north american rwd cars if I can. For me import/fwd is not an option in any way. When guys are building streets rods they may use import seats, door handles etc. Not me. It's principle - no import components.
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I was teasing about the Canadian thing. Those who know my history on other places know that there's a particular pair of Canadians who are the bane of the internet, and my nemesis-es or is it nemisi? Couple of idiots.... Anyway..... It was a joke, nothing personal.

I guess I like to look at a project holistically, not just from a part and piece perspective.
 
I have been restoring cars since I was 16, and I can tell you the BEST looking cars/engine compartments are a "harmonious" compliment of parts well thought out as a whole. Case in point:
34a2c862702193.jpg
I have always been a fan of Ferrari engines. Every part all business, and almost an artisan placement.
Millers, Offenhausers, Jaguar, and Bughatti engines are also breath taking to me.
My point is, the best cars are almost always:
Cars that look as though they were made that way at a factory. Every part compliments the other, and not one part "stands out", but rather the whole thing "gells."
 
I dont take offence either about the Canadian thing, trust me I've taken a lot of crap thru the years (Im a trucker remember) and I can reconise when someone teasin or is aiming to insult.

I dont mind either using any parts, Like Bird said as long it fit and does the job it was intendend to do.
Example I read not too long ago. a reservoir for the hydrolic clutch. Who cares if it's from an american or jap car as long it fits snugly in the firewall, looks good and doesnt leak.

Also I saw cant remember where, a guy used a master cylinder from a rear brake of a Jap bike and fitted it on the E-brake lever for the ebrake on a Vette.
He put some modified brake caliper from a bike
Think it was Norval, not sure but it worked.

Ok I understand that theres the Patriot thing going on and I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but you use what you can put your hands on.
 
you use what you can put your hands on.

50+ years of it....started around age 8 or so when some California hotrodders moved into town on account of their fathers' transfer......
been into engines ever since....my problem is remembering about 1/2 of what I thought I knew,

Case in point, over the years, the attitude had developed among most of the guys to just toss the Qjet/manifold aside, and stick on a aftermarket and a Carter AFB, and get over with all the operational problems, let alone them restrictive EGR manifolds.....

now had we known LARS back when, it would surely have been another story.....

:crap::beer:
 
big2bird said:
Cars that look as though they were made that way at a factory. Every part compliments the other, and not one part "stands out", but rather the whole thing "gells."
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RIGHT. The entire presentation at the end of the day, not "hey look at this part or that part" but what the finished product looks like.
 
JPhil said:
or even some east coast train driver who drives his old beater 500 miles round trip to race it & get his ass whupped every time :D,
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its 572 miles one way.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Mar...1702&1g=-70.7061&1v=CITY&2c=Bowmanville&2s=ON

JPhil said:
than I do for some wealthy egotist who can afford a bunch of cars all of which have all the most expensive parts, prettiest paint jobs, built by the best builders-- no matter how nice, how superior, they are.
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Where is Alex anyway.? Maybe he declared bankruptcy with all the other big shots.
 
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