mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
U LUCKY SOB, I"d a paid money to do that.....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:suicide:
Oil filter bypsss plug: Pros and Cons
- Thread starter 69427
- Start date
U LUCKY SOB, I"d a paid money to do that.....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:suicide:
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
Well, there ya go. Since GM sells these all over the world, imagine an engine is below 0* weather trying to pump all that cold syrup thru the filter at startup. The little dizzzy gear would certainly shred. Since GM doesn't designate where the engine is shipped, the answer is a bypass in them all.
CNC BLOCKS
Well-known member
The guy in these links runs his car year round below zero in the winter and no issues so far and rebuilt the Dist. this summer and the gear look good.
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
Okay, let's re phrase the question. GM , whom is not known for spending money frivolously, decided the most popular power plant in the world should have a pump bypass at an obvious extra cost.
Why?
Why?
Twin_Turbo
Der Maulwurf
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 7,575
Because of people not doing their regular service intervals most likely. All these neglected/mistreated sludged up engines out there.
What may also have contributed is oil filter failures from cold starts? Distorted media and such, maybe even ripped..or from reving a cold motor. A lot of people don't let the oil warm up before getting on it. Better to have a bypass that sends unfiltered oil through the engine than customers with burst or damaged filters and as a result engine trouble.
What may also have contributed is oil filter failures from cold starts? Distorted media and such, maybe even ripped..or from reving a cold motor. A lot of people don't let the oil warm up before getting on it. Better to have a bypass that sends unfiltered oil through the engine than customers with burst or damaged filters and as a result engine trouble.
MYBAD79
Moderator
think I posted this before, if you use sludged old 15W40 mineral oil and rev a cold engine and try to press that old oil jelly thru the low price Fram filter you might be bursting the paper element....
with modern thin synthetic oils and a good quality filter there is no need or a bypass...
the test mentioned in the previous post.... between 135F and 195F the bypass opens at under 26 psi... so it's open pretty much all the time.. again, as long as the filter can handle it, why bypass it ??
with modern thin synthetic oils and a good quality filter there is no need or a bypass...
the test mentioned in the previous post.... between 135F and 195F the bypass opens at under 26 psi... so it's open pretty much all the time.. again, as long as the filter can handle it, why bypass it ??
Belgian1979vette
Well-known member
I would like to add that a HV has nothing to do with a bursting filter or opening of the bypass valve. (you made me wonder which bypass you're talking about here, since on a normal engine there's 2 imo, namely one in the filter and one in the spin on adapter. To state things clear I run an adapter without bypass and let the filter do this job).
If the HV pump puts out to much volume (which is not pressure) it will bypass to the input side of the pump. The only thing that can cause things to go south is pressure. This is regulated by the spring in the pump, which is easily changed for a low pressure type.
The rule here is 10 psi per 1000 rpm if I'm correct.
Wether or not you need a HV pump is dependant on other factors as clearances etc. I run a HV currently because of a load of long oil lines running from my engine to the remote filter, oil cooler, accusump. Then there is the crossdrilled crank, the pressure oiled roller lifters, the spring oilers I intend to run...
All this talk made me question filters.
So what is a good filter ? And what about the valve in the filter ?
If the HV pump puts out to much volume (which is not pressure) it will bypass to the input side of the pump. The only thing that can cause things to go south is pressure. This is regulated by the spring in the pump, which is easily changed for a low pressure type.
The rule here is 10 psi per 1000 rpm if I'm correct.
Wether or not you need a HV pump is dependant on other factors as clearances etc. I run a HV currently because of a load of long oil lines running from my engine to the remote filter, oil cooler, accusump. Then there is the crossdrilled crank, the pressure oiled roller lifters, the spring oilers I intend to run...
All this talk made me question filters.
So what is a good filter ? And what about the valve in the filter ?
Not sure if you had a typo or not, but there is only one filter bypass on common oem setups.
The Ford type, has the bypass in the filter and not in the housing.
The Chevy type has the bypass in the housing and not in the filter.
The only oem difference is in the Ford type racing filters, such as Fram R, which eliminate the built in filter bypass, but at the same time decrease the filtration from approx 20 micron to over 60 micron, obviously to handle the increased flow.
For the HV pump, any time you increase the flow with the same resistance you will also increase the pressure. Adding an oil cooler, longer lines, accusump does nothing to decrease the pressure (or requiring more flow) since the oil ultimately flows thru the same restrictions in the engine.
The others like the drilled crank, spring oilers etc can use more flow to keep the same pressure. You may want to add extra oiling for the dist gear and timing gears too, since you have the hv pump.
A word about the oil pump relief.
Most Melling HVs come with a 70psi spring. If you have an accurate gauge and are showing 70psi, your same setup without that relief may put out 110 psi. In other words you don't really know how much oil the pump is relieving or bypassing. Putting in a lower relief spring of say 60psi will make the pump bypass more of the time and of course show 60psi on the gauge.
Anytime a hydraulic system goes over relief, the oil heats very, very quickly, degrades and the pump has a good opportunity to cavitate, all of which is detrimental.
You would be better off to put an 80psi spring in and lower the oil viscosity or reduce the flow resistance in the circuit to keep the pressure where you want it and under relief all or most of the time.
Here is a example of oem.
Grant it, this is a newer engine style, but I recently bought a Ford p/u with a Triton 5.4 from the original owner with 180,000mi. Truck runs like brand new and the ONLY thing that was ever done to it beside regular oil changes was the pcv valve was replaced once.
It had 50/50 city/highway miles on it, but in never cold S Florida temps.
Stock filter setup and stock factory oil cooler. Oil was always Mobil1 10w30.
Has newer slightly smaller filter with metric threads, don't know if the bypass is in the filter or the housing.
Grant it, this is a newer engine style, but I recently bought a Ford p/u with a Triton 5.4 from the original owner with 180,000mi. Truck runs like brand new and the ONLY thing that was ever done to it beside regular oil changes was the pcv valve was replaced once.
It had 50/50 city/highway miles on it, but in never cold S Florida temps.
Stock filter setup and stock factory oil cooler. Oil was always Mobil1 10w30.
Has newer slightly smaller filter with metric threads, don't know if the bypass is in the filter or the housing.
Belgian1979vette
Well-known member
I do not even think a filter comes without an internal bypass valve, but I'm not sure so I'll let the experts have the final word.
As far as HV pump goes : an accusump, when emtied (which it does each time you start up) needs to be refilled as well. This takes away from the volume of your pump. An engine that is shut, will have it's pressure and a lot of the volume being bled off. The volume that is bled off will have to be replaced as soon as you start up.
Furthermore, a situation like in mine makes for higher internal leaks.
You could be right on the additional oiling of the dizzy gear.
Here is the standard chevy filter, no internal bypass.
As far as the Accusump,
You are aware that you precharge the accumulator and pressure is adjustable. Therefore it never robs the engine of min oil pressure at idle. In the rare case that it is completely emptied, depending on what valving is used, even with the straight manual valve full open, you just slowly increase the revs from a hot idle with no load and it refills in a few seconds as max pressure is achieved while still maintaining equal pressure and flow to the engine. Some users even feather a manual valve for a few seconds.
Of course the most foolproof way is to use their fanciest valve and then an empty unit becomes a non issue.
Belgian1979vette
Well-known member
http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/134_0309_oil_pumps_street_stock/index.html
As far as the filter : on the summit website all the filters seem to list a bypass pressure...
As far as the filter : on the summit website all the filters seem to list a bypass pressure...
I have also heard that GM acknowledged as little as 6psi.
But nonetheless, ask yourself a simple question,
If an accummulator is precharged to 7 or 15psi empty and an engine will accept a flow at 10 psi or less, where will the oil go?
Don't know what type of filter you are looking up on Summit, but here are a couple more standard chevy filters that use the standard chevy bypass in the adapter.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACF-PF454/
Brand ACDelco
Manufacturer's Part Number PF454
Part Type Oil Filters
Product Line ACDelco Oil Filters
Summit Racing Part Number ACF-PF454
Oil Filter Style Canister
Filter Bypass Relief Valve No
Anti-Drainback Valve No
Quantity Sold individually.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KNN-HP-3002/
Brand K&N
Manufacturer's Part Number HP-3002
Part Type Oil Filters
Product Line K&N Performance Gold Oil Filters
Summit Racing Part Number KNN-HP-3002
UPC 024844035097
Oil Filter Style Canister
Height (in) 5.520 in.
Outside Diameter (in) 3.770 in.
Filter Bypass Relief Valve No
Anti-Drainback Valve Yes
Smallest Particle Filtered 10 microns
Maximum Burst Pressure (psi) 550 psi
Thread Size 13/16-16 in.
Quantity Sold individually.
I use a Melling Select pump 155xxx (don't remember which numbers), but both 25 and 10% over, with 7 qt pans, running at less than 70psi at all times, primarily for the cooling effect of the larger flow and also because I've opened up the dist housing to squirt the dist gear and also have 2 squirters for the cam gear. I change the filter often, and not always the oil with it.
Good luck with your setup:wink:
Belgian1979vette
Well-known member
I just finished up connecting my oil lines this weekend. The setup includes an remote oil filter. Apparently they use the Ford filters and these have the bypass in the filter.
