Opinions on a Solid Roller cam in a daily driver

does it really make sense to combine a solid roller cam that is good for high rpm with a 2 bolt main (L48)
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No,it doesn't. But I didn't plan to zing it to the moon.
The cam I've been looking at is the Comp XR 268R (2000-6000) which is pretty much the same RPM range as the other components I plan on using. Peak torque at 4K and max HP at 5.5K.
6K max doesn't seem outrageous for a rebuild 2-bolt bottom end.
But as usual, I'm open for suggestions and critique.

BTW, not sure if I'm actually going with Comp or just having a Cam ground with the 268R specs by somebody else cheaper.
 
Imo Apita said:
The cam I've been looking at is the Comp XR 268R (2000-6000) which is pretty much the same RPM range as the other components I plan on using. Peak torque at 4K and max HP at 5.5K.
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That cam has the same duration as mine (230-236) but more lift. Mine is a hydr roller:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL12-432-8/

If 6000 is your max rpm then a hydr roller is probably the better choice, the advantages of a solid roller are way above 6000rpm....
 
Had a look at the Crane website.
They have a SR cam which is close (within a degree or two) of the Comp XR 268R. Just shopping around. Noticed something that I was already curious about before; Crane mentions "cruise RPM" on their website in the selection of a cam.
With the above mentioned cam they recommend I guess a cruise RPM of 3000.

I have not seen a cruise RPM mentioned on a cam website before.
Since I'm contemplating a 700R4 swap also this has tickled my curiosity.
Ran some numbers and with the 3.08 rear end my cruise RPM at like 70mph would be 1800-1900 rpm with the 700R4.
This would be way out of the Crane recommendation.

The question I was struggling with earlier is the following:
  • 2000-5500 intake
  • 2000-6000 Cam

Highway easy cruise RPM of 1800-1900. Would it be an issue if that falls both outside the RPM band of the intake and the cam?
Does it even matter? Question of the automatic downshift to get up in the power band? Am I wasting precious brain power struggling with this?

Or would I eventually be better off by changing the 3.08 to a 3.77 to bring the 70 mph cruise RPM within the RPM band of both the cam and the intake?

Curious minds would like to know.
 
it really depends on what you want or what you are willing to tolerate... somewhat similar cam here (230-236 hr), 5spd TKO tranny... cruising at 70 mph at 2000 rpm is ok with my cam but if you want to accelerate from here you better shift down in 4th gear... I think that this cam would be a very bad choice if I had a auto trans... how often do I run it at 6000 or higher rpm ??? Not very often ..... if you want some street- and driveability then go with a smaller cam .....just my 2c.....

If you want streetable power and the "huge cam" sound then look into the "thumper" cams....

Installing a "too big" cam is probably the #1 mistake.....
 
Imo Apita said:
Had a look at the Crane website.
They have a SR cam which is close (within a degree or two) of the Comp XR 268R. Just shopping around. Noticed something that I was already curious about before; Crane mentions "cruise RPM" on their website in the selection of a cam.
With the above mentioned cam they recommend I guess a cruise RPM of 3000.

I have not seen a cruise RPM mentioned on a cam website before.
Since I'm contemplating a 700R4 swap also this has tickled my curiosity.
Ran some numbers and with the 3.08 rear end my cruise RPM at like 70mph would be 1800-1900 rpm with the 700R4.
This would be way out of the Crane recommendation.

The question I was struggling with earlier is the following:
  • 2000-5500 intake
  • 2000-6000 Cam

Highway easy cruise RPM of 1800-1900. Would it be an issue if that falls both outside the RPM band of the intake and the cam?
Does it even matter? Question of the automatic downshift to get up in the power band? Am I wasting precious brain power struggling with this?

Or would I eventually be better off by changing the 3.08 to a 3.77 to bring the 70 mph cruise RPM within the RPM band of both the cam and the intake?

Curious minds would like to know.
Click to expand...

Is crane back in business ?
 
Well, they have a website up and running:

http://cranecams.com/

Don't know who owns them.

If you want streetable power and the "huge cam" sound then look into the "thumper" cams....

Installing a "too big" cam is probably the #1 mistake.
Click to expand...

Well, in my defense :mime: I have the software from Comp Cams and after putting in my variables it spit out the XR268R as the #2 "optimum choice".

So, no I'm not shooting from the hip here for the biggest cam sound. I'm no expert on cam selection either hence the Comp software. 400+ ft lbs of torque at 4000RPM. Max HP 440+ @ 5000 RPM.
Sounds reasonable.

Cruising in overdrive, stomping it holding it in 3rd or even 2nd depending on speed.At some point swapping the rear gears for 3.77 or more.
 
Imo Apita said:
Anybody want to take a stab at my last set of newbie questions? :tomato:

The expansion rate of aluminum is different then steel/cast iron, I got that far. Anybody ever heard of any issues running a SR cam with aluminum heads?
Issues as far as tighter lash required when running aluminum heads?

Similar question concerning aluminum rockers with a SR cam.
But gut feeling tells me to stick with steel rockers in combination with a SR cam. Or am I missing the point here?
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Gorgeous looking motor 496BBC :1st:
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Personally, I ran a SR cam on the street with aluminum rockers - Crane Golds - with no problem. 468 CID BB. A hot lash is all that's required to account for the expansion differences.

Remember, too, that when comparing a HR with a SR you need to add about 8 more degrees of duration to the SR in order to achieve comparable performance a HR would give.

As an example, if a HR is 218/224, a SR would need to be 226/232. I've read some Cam Tech gurus articles where they stated 8-10 is the range.

Has to do with the valve lash required for a SR.

Jake
 
JAKE said:
Imo Apita said:
Anybody want to take a stab at my last set of newbie questions? :tomato:

The expansion rate of aluminum is different then steel/cast iron, I got that far. Anybody ever heard of any issues running a SR cam with aluminum heads?
Issues as far as tighter lash required when running aluminum heads?

Similar question concerning aluminum rockers with a SR cam.
But gut feeling tells me to stick with steel rockers in combination with a SR cam. Or am I missing the point here?
Click to expand...

Gorgeous looking motor 496BBC :1st:
Click to expand...

Personally, I ran a SR cam on the street with aluminum rockers - Crane Golds - with no problem. 468 CID BB. A hot lash is all that's required to account for the expansion differences.

Remember, too, that when comparing a HR with a SR you need to add about 8 more degrees of duration to the SR in order to achieve comparable performance a HR would give.

As an example, if a HR is 218/224, a SR would need to be 226/232. I've read some Cam Tech gurus articles where they stated 8-10 is the range.

Has to do with the valve lash required for a SR.

Jake
Click to expand...





Interesting, as I would have thought it was just the opposite.....

the hydraulics collapsing a few mills under opening pressure at high RPM....

:crutches::huh2:
 
Solid roller cams are fine, even in a daily driver as long as the duration is suitable for such. I ran a 234/244/112 Crower SR with a rev kit in my '78 Vette for well over 10 years. I had iron heads and checked the lash at each oil change, but once the parts wore in, the lash values stabilized and changed very little. I'd check after break-in, then after a week, then after a month, then extend as you're comfortable with any changes in the lash. (BTW, cold lash is within .001 of hot lash with these iron heads.)

Later I installed AFR aluminum heads and a Lunati 243/249/110 SR, also with the same Crower roller lifters and the rev kit, and this time with a stud girdle. It worked fine without any lash change on a 2,000 mile trip last June, and got almost 17 miles per gallon! With these aluminum heads, I cold lash to .003 LESS than hot lash values due to higher expansion coefficient of aluminum. Oh, did I mention, it also runs mid 11s?

DSCF3297.jpg
 
Nice engine Larry,

So far I've got;

  • Crane full roller rockers 1.5
  • Morel roller lifters
  • Valve train stud girdle
  • Main girdle

On the hitlist are

  • rev kit
  • 200cc aluminum heads with 64 cc chambers
  • balanced rotating assembly w/ forged +030 pistons & stroker crank
  • 700R4 or 200R4
Waiting for the X-mas bonus check :bounce:

Been busy with camshaft understanding & selection.
This one attracted my attention:
Howard's Cam
Cam Style Mechanical roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 2,500-6,500
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 238
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 238
Duration at 050 inch Lift 238 int./238 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 280
Advertised Exhaust Duration 280
Advertised Duration 280 int./280 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.555 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.555 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.555 int./0.555 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees) 110
Camshaft Gear Attachment 3-bolt
Intake Valve Lash 0.018 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash 0.018 in.
Camshaft Manufacturers Description Rough idle, street performance/mild strip. Recommend 9.5:1 compression ratio, 2,500+ stall

Any comments on the cam?

Eventually looking at rear end change to 3.55 or 3.70
And I love the look of the Twin Turbo hood
341049.jpg

But now I'm dreaming, I'll probably go with the stick on L88 scoop and cut out the original hood.
 
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I would think carefully on Rear Axle ratio. I have 3.36 with a Richmond 5 Speed so is 1:1 in 5th, turns 3000 rpm at 70 mph, this would be about 3500 with 3.70 gears. Roller or not this gets to be a bit of a pain, also really restricts crusing at more mph. The little roller that you are looking at will likely have the ability to pull up from fairly low rpms, had something like this in mine years ago and was good for about 20 / 21.5 miles per gallon , imperial gallons.
 
It's a cam from Howard's Max Torque series.
Surprised that you would call it a "little" roller :lol:
I'm trying to avoid the Stroker Mc Gurk, if big is good then bigger must be better trap.
Would you recommend more lift or more duration?
Regards,
 
My use of the term Little was in no way a slight on that camsharf. 0.555" lift rollers ar more or less the base line for solid rollers, and about as far as you can go safely with 1.440 diameter valve springs, as you go up in lift you are more or less forced to use 1.550" or larger valve springs to allow for the max lift and the required pressure to keep the roller in contact with the camshaft as it goes over the nose. I would say it is likely a good choice , BUT you need to base your decision on how you will use the car, highway????, cruises???? My only concern with solid rollers is oil to the roller wheel at idle, most older Roller lifters only oil this area by splash, so extended idle or low RPM operation can be a problem. Have run solid rollers in my Vette since 1976, this has been the only issue, Howards are OK, or most people dont think about Lunati, they have new stuff designed by Harold Brookshire , who used to be Ultradyne, this stuff is state of the art and much easier on the valve train than other brands. If you want info on Lunati stuff, call their tech line and ask for Steve Slavik, he is an x ultradyne guy and knows his stuff. email [email protected]
 
Have spoken with Steve in last couple weeks on a failure I recently had with my SR Lunati valve train. He definitely knows his stuff and is very helpful.

Its not Lunati's parts that caused the failure, I pushed the parts beyond there life. I was keeping and eye on things to see just how long they would go. 5 years on a decent size roller is to long on the street. Back when I had this motor put together it was recommended that I replace springs and do a in-depth check of the lifters every 2 years and keep an ear out for lash issues.

A few weeks ago I herd a small tapping noise on decel so I took the covers off and took a look, sure enough I had some broken springs. I then removed the intake and checked the lifters. Looks like a have 4 with some roughness at the rollers.

Steve indicated that fatigue is more than likely the cause of the spring failure due to the age of the springs.

The lifters can be rebuilt if I want for a little over half of the cost of new ones but to save some down time I'll get new ones this time and keep these for a rebuild at the next change out.

Give Lunati a call and talk with the techs, they can recommend a good cam for your needs.

I'm running a large cam for the street and was told at the time I ordered everything that I should expect 2 to 3 years out of my valve train. This was fine with me so that's the way I went. Some may not want to do the required maintenance that a solid roller cam with .700" plus lift requires.

Speak with Lunati or whoever's cam you'll run and discuss your intended use, they'll help with your decision.

A solid roller cam with less lift and little different ramp design will live quite well on the street. I don't mind the maintenance and wanted an aggressive cam for my motor.

Neal
 
Slightly offf topic maybe but is Lunati really that much better?
As far as better for your valvetrain, the slower closing ramp?
No other cam manufacturers do this?
I know the Comp cams extreme energy series is a smack open and smack closed affair.
 
Based on my experience with Ultradyne, the NEW Lunati profile Street Rollers will be substantially different from All the others, This stuff all designed by Harold Brookshire, easy on the valve train is one of his trademarks, this and better lowRPM torque and more vacuum which you want in a streetable cam. Check with Steve, if you are looking into a really streetable and fun to drive small block cam check out their 501B1 or 501B2. You have nothing to loose by contacting them, I believe you will be pleased at the personel service. These guys are grass roots guys, like us..............
 
Thanks so far gents, keep the thoughts coming.
Got the rev kit and now waiting to pull the trigger on the rotating assembly.
Need to go shop around for a machine shop now, two options around here.
 
For one thing not yet mentioned, solid rollers are lighter than hydraulics.

And I agree that if you have the right springs and valve train, you shouldn't have to be adjusting frequently.

I've run 2 solid lifter daily drivers altho not rollers, a 426 Hemi and a 396/375 hp Camaro, both of which were "warmed up some" :-) Yeah, back in the 60's. Even back then, the 396 didn't need frequent adjustment at all, I tweaked them like every 6 months or so, and i put on lots of miles and drove the wee out of it, just like that motor was built for.

The Hemi was more picky on a razor sharp tune to really run perfect, so did run them more often. But that was a really heavy valve train, too, with long heavy rockers and big valves, and I drove that even harder than the 396. Ahhh, the good old days! :wink:
 
Hate to drag an older thread back up.
Here's the deal; I keep getting laughed at if I mention SR on the street.
I've ordered a soda in a biker bar one time, same reaction.
Third speed shop I've been to; shake their head and basically ridicule me for wanting to run a Solid roller cam.
What's up with these guys, do I have to admit they're right?
Is running a SR on the street a complete waste of money and asking for parts breaking all the time?
Is it really?
I'm getting a little tired, this shit is getting old.
Did you guys (the ones running a SR) have to deal with the same ridicule?
I'm getting to the point where I just want to buy the stuff, slap it together and run the piss out of it without ever telling anybody that I run a SR.
Then sanity kicks in again and I realize I don't really have the money to waste and If I end up with a parts breaking pig I'll have to live with it.
Which makes me doubt again and the whole circle starts again.
 
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