Rotten fuel and ????

Make sure the fuel tank is dry and clean. Get some large glass containers and fill them from a gas can...(Dangerous)...lol. Let them sit for an hour or so...cover them up so no evap. If there is no seperation, pour them into the tank until you have at least 5-7 gallons in the tank. Now if the problem re-occurs...it's not water in the gas.
 
big2bird said:
I guess I should add a fourth.

4)Vandalsim.
Click to expand...

LONG story going back just over ten years now....and I would not be terribly surprised....really.....

got into some very bad business ventures I have posted about over the years, with some guys here....two of which are still alive....but they have many friends.....

just saying......

but no other car seem to be affected, if they were very much agressive, it would be easy to get them too...but no....but the vette is noticeable.....

maybe I need paint it, afterall....

got a local line on some wheels for it....just for a change...cheep too....

:D
 
I'm sorry you got this problem Gene, but you have water getting into the gas tank. That's it, CASE CLOSED. You gotta determine how it's getting in there. Meanwhile, add some of that additive shit to reduce the problem.
Water in gas only seperates when its introduced carefully. You agitate it, or if it's absorbed via the atmosphere, it will turn the gas milky. That's a fact jack.
 
JPhil said:
I'm sorry you got this problem Gene, but you have water getting into the gas tank. That's it, CASE CLOSED. You gotta determine how it's getting in there. Meanwhile, add some of that additive shit to reduce the problem.
Water in gas only seperates when its introduced carefully. You agitate it, or if it's absorbed via the atmosphere, it will turn the gas milky. That's a fact jack.
Click to expand...

Thanks John, you are the first one to substantiate that in so many words...I thought that was true....

going to check that glass tmrw and maybe try lighting it on fire....see if it burns even....bet it don't....

have to go with my previous suspicions....
 
Gene--just an off the wall, out of the blue thought--you say this problem has been going on intermittantly for years? This immediate problem of lots of water in the gas aside, how old is your fuel pump?
I ASSUME you run an electric rotary fuel pump, because you have EFI. If you have had a long term moisture problem, could your intermitant 'running like shit' be due to a fucked up fuel pump not delivering fuel at proper pressure to the injectors? A fuel pump made for pumping gas fucked up from running water through it? (My solvent tank pump is fucked up from that!)
As I said, just a thought from out of the blue, for perhaps part of the problem.

John
 
JPhil said:
Gene--just an off the wall, out of the blue thought--you say this problem has been going on intermittantly for years? This immediate problem of lots of water in the gas aside, how old is your fuel pump?
I ASSUME you run an electric rotary fuel pump, because you have EFI. If you have had a long term moisture problem, could your intermitant 'running like shit' be due to a fucked up fuel pump not delivering fuel at proper pressure to the injectors? A fuel pump made for pumping gas fucked up from running water through it? (My solvent tank pump is fucked up from that!)
As I said, just a thought from out of the blue, for perhaps part of the problem.

John
Click to expand...

John, I am on my second fuel pump from AZ here, they are American made and were in a blue/white box....Master crap?? would have to go look in the files...

but the one from up north from a company long gone by now, did fail within a few short months of being here but it was one the car some 4 years by then......bought the first one here, then some years ago replace IT under warranty....now I have this sort of problem....that maybe related to a pump failure, but so far this pump has been fine....

Hopefully that Ecklers show cancellation is not indicative of a company problem via vi me getting that locking cap....

so this is about 6 short trips with car running fine, since the gas tank was sanitized.....
the cap on there now holds pressure, and the gasket is fine....I can't see how in hell I can accumulate water in this tank, when other cars don't seem to care....

then there is this ethanol crap we have to deal with....yet another variable to the equation.....Everyone I know is bitching about MPG falling off due since the ethanol markings went on the gas pumps....

10-15% worth.....

:crap:

I gotta run this dawg across the bridge tmrw, and see what happens in traffic off the ramp and up the road about 6 miles.....
:thumbs:
 
I wonder when they switched to ethanol, the new fuel picked up all the water in the first load, and you were the lucky guy to get some. It may have been in there since then.
 
Cherry said:
I must say that a pure idiot would use a shop vac, I have heard so many stories of those who blew up themselves and their neighbors, A moron would have more common than to pull such a stupid stunt, Be glad your still around!
Click to expand...

I'm an idiot.
I wouldn't take a chance on screwing up a good vacuum, but I do weld gas tanks.

Gene
All the gas tanks in Florida were changed to waterproof/leakproof composite tanks several years ago. Took about 10 years for compliannce. They were pressure tested and are supposed to be monitored.

If you suspect buying bad gas, pump a sample where you buy to confirm and turn them in. It's illegal. You might also get a new fuel pump etc if your pump is found to be bad, maybe a new tank, engine, fi, vette. Your favorite group running some of these stations are not beyond selling more gallons than they buy.
Also there has been an increase in pump failures since the 10% max ethanol here. We have had ethanol here statewide for almost a year. Should be a sticker on the pump by law. All gas station pumps had to have a different kind of filter installed at each pump because of the ethanol. Supposedly dissolved the older type.
 
010752 said:
Cherry said:
I must say that a pure idiot would use a shop vac, I have heard so many stories of those who blew up themselves and their neighbors, A moron would have more common than to pull such a stupid stunt, Be glad your still around!
Click to expand...

I'm an idiot.
I wouldn't take a chance on screwing up a good vacuum, but I do weld gas tanks.

Gene
All the gas tanks in Florida were changed to waterproof/leakproof composite tanks several years ago. Took about 10 years for compliannce. They were pressure tested and are supposed to be monitored.

If you suspect buying bad gas, pump a sample where you buy to confirm and turn them in. It's illegal. You might also get a new fuel pump etc if your pump is found to be bad, maybe a new tank, engine, fi, vette. Your favorite group running some of these stations are not beyond selling more gallons than they buy.
Also there has been an increase in pump failures since the 10% max ethanol here. We have had ethanol here statewide for almost a year. Should be a sticker on the pump by law. All gas station pumps had to have a different kind of filter installed at each pump because of the ethanol. Supposedly dissolved the older type.
Click to expand...

Years ago, in the '79-80 Sha/Iran fuel crunch....I remember having a welder friend stick a extra tank under the Chevy van we had...this for a long planned vacation which was happening if I had to hijack an oil tanker.....

well he filled it with some gas and welded away, fumes or not.....:bonkers:

we all still here....better living through chemistry....I guess....

Well this fuel pump is so far hanging in there, as pressures will shoot above 60 psi if I pinch the return line....that is just on battery alone....so the pump is fine....operating pressures normal with engine idleing....

since the history of this water crap is, that the first two times it happened many years ago, I just smelled the fuel and figgered water, and drained the tank.....but the engine flat died....no run....had spark, had liquid...but not any SMELL.....

this time around, it's more of a accumulation type problem, and from the shit outta the tank bottom.....smells like swamp water or something,...not gasoline....and the fact that i'ts so cloudy in the glass even the next morning....that tells me i'ts trash....

but the thing is....HOW?? I find it improbable to impossible the Carb'd 318 van I have never cleaned the tank on...has never diven any troubles, wife's car never anything totally fuel related....had a engine failure last years, but not gas related....

so why the vette???

why ME Lord?? WTF I do ???

:bonkers:
 
I replaced the injectors (over 300,000 miles) last month on my tow van with rebuilts, it was running rough like yours intermittantly. Originally thought it was the screens plugged a bit, but not. Slight improvement. Ended up changing plugs, wires and coil. Couple wires were bad, original coil dist post terminal was corroded badly. Runs like brand new now.

My gas was clean when I changed gas filter.
I have my charcoal cannister solenoid operated purge vent disconnected, so sometimes I can smell gas after shutoff.
In the last couple of months, it started smelling like varnish or very old gas. Odd enough for me to really notice.
Definitely to do with the ethanol, but it runs great so I don't care.

For decades Florida was known for having the best gas around. Something to do with the sea level elevation. :confused:

Anyway, something for you to think about after you get clean gas.

Ethanol gasoline is hygroscopic (will absorb water) and can absorb 50 times more water than conventional non-alcohol gasoline.
Click to expand...

Gene, do you have these symptoms?

1. Engine performance problems.
2. Hard starting and operating difficulty.
3. Hesitation and lack of acceleration.
4. Stalling, especially at low speeds

http://www.fuel-testers.com/list_e10_engine_damage.html

Read this first to understand how the ethanol gas attracts moisture.
You might end up having to use a water separator like the diesel rigs use. :banghead:
http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html
 
010752 said:
I replaced the injectors (over 300,000 miles) last month on my tow van with rebuilts, it was running rough like yours intermittantly. Originally thought it was the screens plugged a bit, but not. Slight improvement. Ended up changing plugs, wires and coil. Couple wires were bad, original coil dist post terminal was corroded badly. Runs like brand new now.

My gas was clean when I changed gas filter.
I have my charcoal cannister solenoid operated purge vent disconnected, so sometimes I can smell gas after shutoff.
In the last couple of months, it started smelling like varnish or very old gas. Odd enough for me to really notice.
Definitely to do with the ethanol, but it runs great so I don't care.

For decades Florida was known for having the best gas around. Something to do with the sea level elevation. :confused:

Anyway, something for you to think about after you get clean gas.

Ethanol gasoline is hygroscopic (will absorb water) and can absorb 50 times more water than conventional non-alcohol gasoline.
Click to expand...

Gene, do you have these symptoms?

1. Engine performance problems.
2. Hard starting and operating difficulty.
3. Hesitation and lack of acceleration.
4. Stalling, especially at low speeds

http://www.fuel-testers.com/list_e10_engine_damage.html

Read this first to understand how the ethanol gas attracts moisture.
You might end up having to use a water separator like the diesel rigs use. :banghead:
http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html
Click to expand...

Noonie....

1. NO, other than finally replacing all the spark ends with Jacobs ceramics, there has been NO evidence of spark problems since then....NONE...all the shit is NEW....and used RTV to seal the wires...

2. No, always started easy untill last Tuesday, when it was flatbedded...course I ran it dry enough and I am convinced I sucked enough bad shit into it ....but the engine DID run great for about 30 seconds, and I"m ready to drive it home...then it died and failed to restart....

3....NO, if anything as soon as I hit the gas, off it went.....
did 150 mph many a time...pulled like a raped ape....

4....untill last Tues...no never stalled....just that fucked up raggedy assed idle....


TODAY, the thing ran pretty damn smooth, slightly better than with any Techron...which was the best ever before draining/cleaning this tank last Friday....

when the engine runs smooth, like over this weekend....it is ever so much more powerful...no surprise....but WTF is rong???

I still think there is something funky in Denmark about either this hill I living on and buy most gasoline off of....only 30' elevation, and you know how flat Florida is, if anyone....

but I had a freeking gunnite swimming pool pop outta the ground in a house I was renovating some years ago....on account of a guy pumped it dry...so the groundwater floated it right outta the ground, concrete and allllllllll/....

showing up that next morning, I about shit.....thank GOD I had nothing to do with it....:bonkers:

but it makes me wonder, same area, same elevation, not 6 blocks away, there are these gas stations, with underground tanks easy as large as that pool.....

:flash:

OK, so why just the vette???
 
I am not running a water separator but have plenty of room under the tank there for it.....

where/how to buy one???

anyone???

I think of one like a friend has in his air lines for spray guns....

but I dunno if it works for gasolines....

:crap:
 
Don't worry about your hills. Most of S Florida is at a 10" elevation with NO hills. Biggest is the county dump.

Racor is the industry standard for separators.
Read this:
http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/fuelfilter.asp

Lots to choose from, must be designed for gasoline. Do a search for Racor.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=6427

People down here know better than to empty a pool. They had concrete ships during ww2, you can see one sunk off Bimini.
Can't remenmber the formula, but it's something about the weight of the object vs the weight of the water it displaces.
No tanks pop up down here and the gas isn't that contaminated. Ours is fresh from the port almost daily.
 
Last edited:
010752 said:
Don't worry about your hills. Most of S Florida is at a 10" elevation with NO hills. Biggest is the county dump.

Racor is the industry standard for separators.
Read this:
http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/fuelfilter.asp

Lots to choose from, must be designed for gasoline. Do a search for Racor.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=6427

People down here know better than to empty a pool. They had concrete ships during ww2, you can see one sunk off Bimini.
Can't remenmber the formula, but it's something about the weight of the object vs the weight of the water it displaces.
No tanks pop up down here and the gas isn't that contaminated. Ours is fresh from the port almost daily.
Click to expand...

Do you happen to know if those filters above can be used in the suction end of my DPFI fuel pump?? and so not see line pressures??? and can they suffer the recirculation/throughput inherent in DPFI systems???

also....when rigging a fuel gauge on the line using a a/c hose and sometimes a gauge, sometimes a cobbled up oil pressure gauge on the line...I noticed when using a short oil pressure line, the gauge fluctuates a LOT, where with the a/c hose in there it doesn't.....

but I have always noticed the pulsing of the injectors when I feel the rubber feed or return lines....

wonder if there is any significance to that either??? still think it's fuel related as the hose plainly says Erol's DPFI hose rated 250 psi....

:huh:
 
mrvette said:
Do you happen to know if those filters above can be used in the suction end of my DPFI fuel pump?? and so not see line pressures??? and can they suffer the recirculation/throughput inherent in DPFI systems???
Click to expand...

You might visit a boat shop and quiz them about the water separator filters. Lots of boats run them and with FI being more common on both inboard and outboards boats lately, I'd bet you can learn from them the best way to install such a filter on your FI car.

DC
 
DC3 said:
mrvette said:
Do you happen to know if those filters above can be used in the suction end of my DPFI fuel pump?? and so not see line pressures??? and can they suffer the recirculation/throughput inherent in DPFI systems???
Click to expand...

You might visit a boat shop and quiz them about the water separator filters. Lots of boats run them and with FI being more common on both inboard and outboards boats lately, I'd bet you can learn from them the best way to install such a filter on your FI car.

DC
Click to expand...

Hey DC, the car is running great now, just idled it all over the hood with wife, top down slo....looking at Christmas lights pretty much a acid test....ran fine on the freeway yesterday....90 and pulls like a bear....

Not seen your intro as I recall, note you post count....so...

Welcome to the motley crew of the Flying Dutchmen.....

:hi:
 
My Mobil just put "Contains Ethanol" on my pumps today. Switching to Chevron.
 
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