School me on multi-layered stee gaskets

[clutchdust]

I see them on a lot of applications now but don't really know the pros and cons versus traditional gaskets or copper gaskets.
Of course, they're billed as a "high performance" gasket but at what point does one need something like this as opposed to conventional?
What is the advantages versus traditional or copper?
Generally, what are the opinions of those who have used them?

 

[mrvette]

The only ones I remember dealing with were on wife's Escort, and another friend's Escort...both are fine, THAT a way....now why??? damn if I know....



it was described as being something to do with varying expansion over temp ranges between aluminum heads and iron blocks....now WTF that a L98 didn't do that solution, beats ME, and love to find out why....

:gurney:

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

used on boosted or NOS applications where traditional head gaskets are being blown out because of high cylinder pressures. You really see them on 4 bolt head applications.

They also are a mother **cker to keep from leaking coolant. Excuse my french, there, I'm not a fan. If you're considering those, consider the $200 cometic gaskets

 

[Twin_Turbo]

I used cometic mls gaskets on the 4 SCed engines I built and on a high CR 406. Will use them on 495LSX also. They are reusable, come precoated with sealer... drop in and torque down. I have never had one leak even a drop.

 

[010752]

The only ones I remember dealing with were on wife's Escort, and another friend's Escort...both are fine, THAT a way....now why??? damn if I know....



it was described as being something to do with varying expansion over temp ranges between aluminum heads and iron blocks....now WTF that a L98 didn't do that solution, beats ME, and love to find out why....

:gurney:

Ford developed the MLS gaskets first, for their modular engines that came out early in the 90s. Your L98 just predated those gaskets.

Lots of them out there now, the problem ones are the cheapies, not all made the same.
I've had good luck with Victor, if you don't want to spend the bucks for Cometic.
Definitely use MLS on an iron/alum combo.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

stock l98 gaskets are rubber coated steel shim.

 

[mrvette]

The only ones I remember dealing with were on wife's Escort, and another friend's Escort...both are fine, THAT a way....now why??? damn if I know....



it was described as being something to do with varying expansion over temp ranges between aluminum heads and iron blocks....now WTF that a L98 didn't do that solution, beats ME, and love to find out why....

:gurney:

Ford developed the MLS gaskets first, for their modular engines that came out early in the 90s. Your L98 just predated those gaskets.

Lots of them out there now, the problem ones are the cheapies, not all made the same.
I've had good luck with Victor, if you don't want to spend the bucks for Cometic.
Definitely use MLS on an iron/alum combo.

stock l98 gaskets are rubber coated steel shim.

I just use whatever FelPro supplies which looked blue as I recall, but maybe I thinking of the intake gaskets? this on the L98,


Sat night at a party, my friend with the nearly identical Ford Escort to my wife's car......that we did some major engine work on a few months ago....well it has a water leak......lovely....so it's coming back today in a couple hours.....IF it's a head gasket leak, not only would I be pissed, but nervous over wife's car too, but hers has held up for several years now....

:surrender::crap:

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

gaskets made of blue? :rofl::rofl:

I deal in Buicks, turbo Buicks to be exact, which mean 4 bolt heads, dissimilar metals (aluminum heads on cast blocks) - and I'm not a fan of steel, all it means with steel is you have one more metal moving at a different rate than the head and the block. Currently, I use a composite gasket from TA performance, but it's not idea either.... ah well, at this point head gaskets are the price of entry.

But those blue gaskets....
this motor

looked like this

when the blue gasket failed.... what's impossible to see is the hole that went front to back between the cylinders - it's 1/4" round hole.

the failure was this. I had an intermittent ping that I'd spent days trying to find.... there was a leak in the intake gasket (yeah, more blue) that leaned out this cylinder... but only under boost, and only at 60 mph or faster.

 

[mrvette]

gaskets made of blue? :rofl::rofl:

I deal in Buicks, turbo Buicks to be exact, which mean 4 bolt heads, dissimilar metals (aluminum heads on cast blocks) - and I'm not a fan of steel, all it means with steel is you have one more metal moving at a different rate than the head and the block. Currently, I use a composite gasket from TA performance, but it's not idea either.... ah well, at this point head gaskets are the price of entry.

But those blue gaskets....
this motor

looked like this

when the blue gasket failed.... what's impossible to see is the hole that went front to back between the cylinders - it's 1/4" round hole.

the failure was this. I had an intermittent ping that I'd spent days trying to find.... there was a leak in the intake gasket (yeah, more blue) that leaned out this cylinder... but only under boost, and only at 60 mph or faster.

:shocking: That was a FelPRO?? shit....it had all 4 cylinders coupled to the other one, never seen that, not ever close, not on old Ponchos or even any of the SBC engines, including my L98, but I have had only two cars with puffers on them turbos for both......:bonkers:

edit, I not seen any valves EVER look like door #2 there, what a mess......

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Those blue ones are good for stock or mild engines, however with a warped head or deck no gasket is going to cut it.

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[mrvette]

Those blue ones are good for stock or mild engines, however with a warped head or deck no gasket is going to cut it.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

AWL us guys have warped heads or we wooden be here......:smash::loveletter::thankyou:

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Those blue ones are good for stock or mild engines, however with a warped head or deck no gasket is going to cut it.

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plenty of assumptions there... all wrong, try again? :fishing:

this is the head I was talking about before where we were discussing the issue of using turbos/blowers on a SBC 400 block. MLS may have held it, but even then it'd be an issue because of the siamesed cylinders.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

what assumptions??

OK have it your way, the cheap blue gaskets are the be all end all of gaskets, that's why they never fail...

 

[mrvette]

what assumptions??

OK have it your way, the cheap blue gaskets are the be all end all of gaskets, that's why they never fail...

TT, I have to ASSume you mean the FelPro gaskets we buy here, and now a daze I not sure of where they made anymore....

so I dunno the failure rate is any worse, really....not from my experience....


and so my buddies came over this afternoon, with that 01 Escort, and so 3 of us deliberated over that car for about a hour, found NOTHING rong except the I D 10 T error..... it sat without leaking a drop of water, we started and ran in the driveway....and nothing....SO the silly 4 cyl typical kid commuter driver was found with NO thing showing....

stay tuned....:twitch:

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

what assumptions??

OK have it your way, the cheap blue gaskets are the be all end all of gaskets, that's why they never fail...

"warped head or deck" is an assumption.

the only absolute is there is no absolute.... but why buy questionable blue when decent stuff is just a few pennies more?

or put another way.... I haven't built a stock motor since the Reagan years....

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Where did I say you had a warped deck or heads? I was just stating that if you have one or both of those, you will blow gaskets regardless of what you buy. Where is it an assumption? It's just a general statement. Do you have a problem with me?? Like I said in a prev. post, I have a button with the perfect remedy for issues!!! :banned:

So you say the blue stuff is questionable... yes that sure is a contradiction to what I said. I think I said they were for high perf. use right? stupid me!!!

Stock motor schmock motor... if that rusty and dirty disgrace in those pics are your doing, I don't see attention to detail anywhere, just an old dirty iron headed POS w/ a roots on top and some blue chinese rockers to make it spiffy???... and come on now, 462624 open chamber junk heads? LOL!!!!!!!!!!

You really think you are the bomb don't you?

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

cheap motor, yep. The bomb? I have no idea what you're talking about - I tell people what I did with what I had - believe it or not there are people out there who can't or won't afford the mega dollar stuff.

and no, not 624 heads... mexican truck heads can't remember the casting number at the moment.

as for banning me - whatever dude, do whatever makes your little head swell.

 

[clutchdust]

OK, great. A flame war. Can we get back to the issue at hand?
So, when I put my AFRs on, I should go with MLS over other types? Price-wise, copper is in the same ball park as the MLS. Why would MLS be better than copper? Or for the difference, should I go with copper instead?
What about just plane single layer steel gaskets?
If I do go with the MLS, I've heard the name Cometic and someone mentioned Victor. Any other good brands? Any I should stay away from?
Last, any special procedures to use with MLS?

For reference, my engine will be mild to medium performance. Shooting for a SCR of about 10.2:1.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Victor is victor reinz. I only use cometic and would rec. them. Install dry, no spray on sealers.

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[kwplot34]

I went with what my head manufacture suggested , and they suggested Fel pro. My heads are Brodix and they even gave me a part number. The guy the does my machine work told to go with that also, and suggested I stay away from MLS head gaskets.