Serpentine Conversion Questions

[JeffP1167]

There is no need for an idler wheel in the air pump setup, only for the aC if you delete that. Smart routing of the STOCK! belt completely eliminates the AIR pump and you have more than enough room

why not just wrap it like GM did?

 

[Twin_Turbo]

because then I would need a different length belt and I have a bunch of these belts as spares. I can't just go to the vatozone and get a new belt here.

There is absolutely no issue running it like this. The grey camaro has it, the black gta, nmy truck, Joops 88 camaro and his 82 trans am. No issues on any of them.

 

[mrvette]

because then I would need a different length belt and I have a bunch of these belts as spares. I can't just go to the vatozone and get a new belt here.

There is absolutely no issue running it like this. The grey camaro has it, the black gta, nmy truck, Joops 88 camaro and his 82 trans am. No issues on any of them.

:shocking::gurney: Eh, join the club, I got maybe 4 serp belts on the wall, and another large handful of V belts, dating back decades in a few cases.....

:beer:

 

[Sam Cogley]

I put a ZZ4 in my 68 and installed a GM Performance Parts catalog serpentine belt drive system...

All that is, is a over priced f-body serpentine system

Yep. The brackets are the same as the F-body/Caprice/etc. setup.

There is no need for an idler wheel in the air pump setup, only for the aC if you delete that. Smart routing of the STOCK! belt completely eliminates the AIR pump and you have more than enough room

That's exactly the way mine is run. Works great. I think I originally found that tidbit at thirdgen.

-------------------------------

A/C with these brackets uses the "pancake" style compressor, which I believe was also used on later C3s.

I think the CS144 adapter bracket was a stock police car part. I ordered from RockAuto, if memory serves. It still took a bit of modification before things fit right. There may be some pics at CF, if I ever took any.

I have a set of the steel braces, but I've never installed them and the alternator brace doesn't want to fit with the CS144 anyway. I'll have to do some digging around online to see if the Caprice police cars used a different brace. They aren't totally necessary, but GM put them there for a reason.

 

[DC3]

A/C with these brackets uses the "pancake" style compressor, which I believe was also used on later C3s.

I think the CS144 adapter bracket was a stock police car part. I ordered from RockAuto, if memory serves. It still took a bit of modification before things fit right. There may be some pics at CF, if I ever took any.

I have a set of the steel braces, but I've never installed them and the alternator brace doesn't want to fit with the CS144 anyway. I'll have to do some digging around online to see if the Caprice police cars used a different brace. They aren't totally necessary, but GM put them there for a reason.

Thanks again. I was hoping to do this without having to change AC or alternator since both are fairly new on my '73. Looks like one of the pancake style compressors may be mandatory. As far as the CS144, maybe I just need to source brackets from a Caprice or other car that came stock with one. Here's a list of those vehicles per RockAuto if anyone needs it.

ACDELCO 3351048 Alternator:
BUICK ROADMASTER (1994 - 1996)
CADILLAC FLEETWOOD (1993 - 1996)
CHEVROLET CAPRICE (1993 - 1996)
CHEVROLET IMPALA (1994 - 1996)
CHEVROLET LUMINA APV (1992 - 1995)
OLDSMOBILE SILHOUETTE (1992 - 1995)
PONTIAC TRANS SPORT (1992 - 1995)

DC

 

[mrvette]

A/C with these brackets uses the "pancake" style compressor, which I believe was also used on later C3s.

I think the CS144 adapter bracket was a stock police car part. I ordered from RockAuto, if memory serves. It still took a bit of modification before things fit right. There may be some pics at CF, if I ever took any.

I have a set of the steel braces, but I've never installed them and the alternator brace doesn't want to fit with the CS144 anyway. I'll have to do some digging around online to see if the Caprice police cars used a different brace. They aren't totally necessary, but GM put them there for a reason.

Thanks again. I was hoping to do this without having to change AC or alternator since both are fairly new on my '73. Looks like one of the pancake style compressors may be mandatory. As far as the CS144, maybe I just need to source brackets from a Caprice or other car that came stock with one. Here's a list of those vehicles per RockAuto if anyone needs it.

ACDELCO 3351048 Alternator:
BUICK ROADMASTER (1994 - 1996)
CADILLAC FLEETWOOD (1993 - 1996)
CHEVROLET CAPRICE (1993 - 1996)
CHEVROLET IMPALA (1994 - 1996)
CHEVROLET LUMINA APV (1992 - 1995)
OLDSMOBILE SILHOUETTE (1992 - 1995)
PONTIAC TRANS SPORT (1992 - 1995)

DC

I have switched alts between the CS and SI series with no problems on the mounts, easy do.....

trick is, the fore/aft pulley spacing, and in all the updates, I have never done anything more than line up the pulleys with a straight edge and maybe a flip over on the alt pulley, and some large washers for spacers....hammer home and done deal....

:gurney:

 

[Sam Cogley]

A/C with these brackets uses the "pancake" style compressor, which I believe was also used on later C3s.

I think the CS144 adapter bracket was a stock police car part. I ordered from RockAuto, if memory serves. It still took a bit of modification before things fit right. There may be some pics at CF, if I ever took any.

I have a set of the steel braces, but I've never installed them and the alternator brace doesn't want to fit with the CS144 anyway. I'll have to do some digging around online to see if the Caprice police cars used a different brace. They aren't totally necessary, but GM put them there for a reason.

Thanks again. I was hoping to do this without having to change AC or alternator since both are fairly new on my '73. Looks like one of the pancake style compressors may be mandatory. As far as the CS144, maybe I just need to source brackets from a Caprice or other car that came stock with one. Here's a list of those vehicles per RockAuto if anyone needs it.

ACDELCO 3351048 Alternator:
BUICK ROADMASTER (1994 - 1996)
CADILLAC FLEETWOOD (1993 - 1996)
CHEVROLET CAPRICE (1993 - 1996)
CHEVROLET IMPALA (1994 - 1996)
CHEVROLET LUMINA APV (1992 - 1995)
OLDSMOBILE SILHOUETTE (1992 - 1995)
PONTIAC TRANS SPORT (1992 - 1995)

DC

I have switched alts between the CS and SI series with no problems on the mounts, easy do.....

trick is, the fore/aft pulley spacing, and in all the updates, I have never done anything more than line up the pulleys with a straight edge and maybe a flip over on the alt pulley, and some large washers for spacers....hammer home and done deal....

:gurney:

The 144 is significantly larger than the 130 (or 133, whatever the smaller CS is).

I think only the police-spec Caprices got the big alternator. It's been years since I bought that part, I forget the exact interchange.

 

[Sam Cogley]

Hrrmph. Looks like that bracket was discontinued not long after I bought mine, but apparently there is a truck CS144 that fits with a bit of fiddling.

http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=636622

 

[phantomjock]

The 144 is significantly larger than the 130 (or 133, whatever the smaller CS is).

My problem with the set up was/is the CS144 is so much larger - and its relatively fixed position - the rear of the alternator hits my extra TALL Valve covers (needed for rocker/girdle clearance). My solution was to get a set up similar to the Marsh - that uses flat plates and bushings for stand offs. But alas - no bracket for the CS144, so now I get to fab one.

OR do something like this: (but it looks a bit funky..)


Better looking bracket:



Bottomline: So, I have some more parts in the waiting to "dispose" pile.

Cheers - Jim

 

[DC3]

I think only the police-spec Caprices got the big alternator. It's been years since I bought that part, I forget the exact interchange.

It was at least an option on all of the vehicles I listed above. I sourced mine by specifying a '93 Cadillac Fleetwood at NAPA. They had it in stock. Had to clock the housing but that was it.

Does anyone know if all of the serpentine options discussed place the AC compressor in front of the head? If so, then I will definitely need one of the pankcake style compressors as the VA one looks to be too long to fit in front.

DC

 

[Sam Cogley]

I think only the police-spec Caprices got the big alternator. It's been years since I bought that part, I forget the exact interchange.

It was at least an option on all of the vehicles I listed above. I sourced mine by specifying a '93 Cadillac Fleetwood at NAPA. They had it in stock. Had to clock the housing but that was it.

Mine came out of a Fleetwood at a pick-n-pull. I was specifically referring to the Caprice line, and the bracket to mount a CS144 where a CS130 would normally be found on that set of serpentine brackets.

Does anyone know if all of the serpentine options discussed place the AC compressor in front of the head? If so, then I will definitely need one of the pankcake style compressors as the VA one looks to be too long to fit in front.

DC

The F-body/Caprice brackets definitely place the compressor in front of the head. It drops in where the idler frame on the upper left of TT's picture.

 

[68/70Vette]

Refer to this article:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0911_serpentine_belt_drive/viewall.html

A very nice setup but the idler wheel setup in the AIR-pump-bracket will not fit the C3 without modification.


Arne

I've bought two GMPP Serpentine belt systems. One for the 68 and one for the BB 70. The carcraft.com website mentions the kwik adapters to convert the GMPP Serpentine belt system to a BB.

"A very nice setup but the idler wheel setup in the AIR-pump-bracket will not fit the C3 without modification.
" The idler wheel fits. You mount it upside down. You have to grind a little off of one the the brackets' fastener bosses.

With the GMPP Serpentine kit's you can order all new accessory units; PS pump, alternator, water pump, AC compressor. Considering the all new parts, they're pretty reasonably priced.

For both of my kits, I've replaced the stock cast iron water pump with reverse rotation aluminum Edelbrocks, and I've bought some March aluminum pulleys for a little bling. Bought a March underdrive pully to slow down PS and water pump rotations and save a little hp. The stock serpentine kits drive the PS and WP way to fast for a specialty car.

With the Serpentine kit in my 68 ZZ4, underdrive pulleys, electric fan Be Cool radiator, and pure ethylene glycol coolant, my 68 runs cool as a witches tit.

 

[DC3]

I was specifically referring to the Caprice line, and the bracket to mount a CS144 where a CS130 would normally be found on that set of serpentine brackets.

Gotcha. Wasn't sure if that was what you meant and just wanted to make sure anyone looking for CS144 knew what options were available.

In doing some research, I discovered the original CS144's were 120 Amp with the next versions being 124 Amp and final version (which I have) was rated at 140 Amps. I wonder if that had anything to do with you having to modify the bracket to fit your CS144?

I guess there is not a perfect choice for my setup. I've found some aftermarket brackets (Alan Grove) that will fit my AC but not the CS144. Truck brackets may be too tall. Long water pump brackets push everything close to the cross frame which may or may not have to be notched. The Caprice Police option brackets will fit the CS144 but may not fit my AC. Corvette brackets sit closer to the block and are a good choice but they don't appear to work with either my AC or alternator.

If I could find a way to get my AC compressor to work with the Caprice Police brackets, that might be my best option. Or, at least my lowest cost option assuming I could find a cheap set of brackets. I guess I'm going to have to get off my butt and go to the wrecking yard. This isn't a high priority for me right now but I appreciate the help and the good discussion.

DC

 

[Sam Cogley]

Someone clever could probably find a way to build a bracket that would bolt into the pancake compressor's location, then hold the old-style compressor above the serpentine bracket. You'd have to measure the belt afterwards to find one long enough, and I'd really recommend using the steel braces between the bracket and head/block to make sure no weird stresses ended up in the metal with compressor hanging up there.

That said, the pancake is more efficient than the old 6-piston model.

As far as I know, the standard V8 F-Body/Caprice brackets are no different than the 9C1 police version, with the exception of the bolt-in cradle for the CS144.

I'd also recommend not using the standard CS144 molded plastic fan. I have a two piece metal fan/disc that I do not remember the source for. Possibly a CS130, or some odd application CS144. It's the same diameter and has the same general blade pitch as the plastic fan, but without the tendency to fall apart.

 

[DC3]

Thanks Sam,

Appreciate the good info. This thread has been good. I'll take a pass on the S10 brackets and now I'm loaded with info when I get ready to tackle this project.

DC