WTF? C2/C3 Wilwood direct replacement caliper

guru said:
So turtle, are you going to swap your dynalites for these?
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I don't know, but i'm glad i kept my stock front caliper brackets just in case. I couldn't smoke the dynalites at Mosport trying to abuse them on purpose so its hard to justify taking them off.
 
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I figured you were the only guy cheap enough and serious enough that the appropriate cost/benefit analysis would be done.
 
There is always the lifetime warranty pads from autozone also

It may be cheaper for him in the long run
 
I feel like my brakes are adequate at best, no power lotsa pedal pressure, but I have alway thought that the unsprung weight was luducrous . A guy goes out and buys light wheels but still has to lugs these things around.
 
I have had this '72 for some 16 years now, and the thing came with SSlined calipers....I started out with the usual crap about rotor runout and lip pistons/seals....found out from VBP about the Oring conversions before moving here to Florida in '97....did that change up north....drove to Florida and back house hunting.....no issues....but as time went on, and me running DOT5, the calipers in front went on the seals, changed them later on the rears went, changed them too....but through all this time the pedal was only just tolerable, about the same as any other car, that damn soft pillow feel they all have...at any time with most any car, I can stamp proper on the pedal and drive it clean to the floor....Dodge, Ford, IMport OR GM, never once had one I could not do that with, most of them including my '72 would lock the brakes in a panic....

BUT the overall brake feel sucked the green weenie down to the bone....
slightly worse on this '72 with NEVER a really confident feeling....

then there is the hydroboost conversion....
NOW, it's stopping on a dime with almost NO pedal travel, and a stock diameter m/cyl,....and it's all cool....

BEST damn brakes of anything I have ever driven....by FAR...

which proves to ME, vacuum SUX.....

SO caliper weight savings....now that the last 3? years have been basically trouble free on the brakes....I did have a hose crimp up/collapse/swell on me but that's a normal item.....

I wonder just what typical street use will bring out of saving only 2-5? lbs/wheel that justifies 1200 bux worth of parts....

when the wheel/tire weighs something like 50? lbs....

much less the spring/arms/shock/spindle/tie rod/joints/etc....

What is surprising to me is GM not switching to aluminum years ago in production for these things....not like the stainless wasn't around by '72 or so, I suspect....pour aluminim in the same mould as the iron...drill as the aftermarket been doing for SS liners....ship em.....

:bonkers::yahoo:
 
Yellow73SB said:
I think the hydraboost just covers up for the crappy calipers though
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EXCEPT for a seized up LF brake hose, they been trouble free for some 3 years now, and none of that pumping air problem or much of any OTHER problem either....

nothing rong with the stock design that some updating don't cure....

say that for most any old car, really....it's the nature of HOTRODDING>>>>>>

:shocking::beer:
 
mrvette said:
Yellow73SB said:
I think the hydraboost just covers up for the crappy calipers though
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EXCEPT for a seized up LF brake hose, they been trouble free for some 3 years now, and none of that pumping air problem or much of any OTHER problem either....

nothing rong with the stock design that some updating don't cure....
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Gene, Everything is wrong with the stock design. And its been covered over and over and over.

Take them apart and you'll see wear mark indentations on the stainless liners from the crappy pistons rocking back and forth. That's the Zero tolerance O ring pistons doing that. The stock pistons do the same thing. Both designs still pump air and leak.

Driving my car for the past 28 years almost everyday and racking up 400,000+ miles doesn't by itself qualify me as an expert, but you're flying in my face telling me i'm full of crap. I'm full of crap on a lot of stuff but i feel very confident on this subject.

Hydroboost or no, you can't stop reliably with leaky calipers full of air. Captain, I can't change the laws of physics.

Hello?

Damn. Now i understand why Baskin got so flustrated with you. And i put my professional reputation on the line and covered for your ass because you were a friend.
 
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Baskin is a smug asshole, fuck him....thanks BTW....

but on this caliper shit, removing the springs and O rings cured my 'runout' problems....that's all I know....now I did shim the REAR rotors only to some minimal runout by FEEL on the shoes when the engine ran in gear up in the air with just the adapters bolted secure....I have '92 vette wheels all around....

the front have never been a issue except for that botched up old hose....

I still run the stockish rubber hoses, all 4 new some years ago now...

I can't see how any pumping is a problem with no springs behind any pistons....as they were first eliminated when doing the first lip seal replacement when I got the car...I looked at them and tossed them the next day.....never looked back...even with lip seals...worked as well as the O rings, really....

I know it's not anyting in the hydraulics of the brakes themselves, but the HB additon was done without disturbing the brakes at ALL, never popped a brake line....purposely so to get a A-B direct comparo....

now I did have a larger diameter truck m/cyl on there when doing the change, and so it was greatly over assisted, and too sensitive.....so going back to a aluminum m/cyl from hotrod shop, stock diameter for a shark, and that cured the problem...

dunno what else to say man, been a 12 year time span battling these brakes, and listening in to the net, and finally taking the HB suggestion from primarily Norval....remember him???

:lol:
 
Stock design brakes, well maintained, are fine for normal street use. That said, they do pump air and must be bled ever so often.... shitty design... the brakes on a $8999 Kia are better than this junk. Brakes should not require THAT much maintenance, these Wilwood calipers look like the solution: direct bolt on... what else can we ask for ?
If you want reliable breaks for aggressive driving and the track, these seem to be the ticket - for normal street driving I believe the stock breaks (well maintained) are good enough for most of us. I'm going to do the O-ring conversion some time soon and I'll report how significant the difference to lip seal is.... I'm curious myself....
 
MYBAD79 said:
Stock design brakes, well maintained, are fine for normal street use. That said, they do pump air and must be bled ever so often.... shitty design... the brakes on a $8999 Kia are better than this junk. Brakes should not require THAT much maintenance, these Wilwood calipers look like the solution: direct bolt on... what else can we ask for ?
If you want reliable breaks for aggressive driving and the track, these seem to be the ticket - for normal street driving I believe the stock breaks (well maintained) are good enough for most of us. I'm going to do the O-ring conversion some time soon and I'll report how significant the difference to lip seal is.... I'm curious myself....
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Karsten, other than weight, I can't see how these are any different than stock caliper designs....the function is the same...if the stock one's pump air, i'ts on account of the damn springs behind the pistons...otherwise the rotor just knocks the pistons back and they sit there....lip or O rings....but the O rings are so tight the springs are useless anyway...

I have NEVER had a air pump problem with any acceptable runout, which for ME is WAY more than any stock 'spec' of some 4 mils....I been running fine for some 5? years now with the last setup of the rears, which was the only end to give problems....never pumped air,....but that damn vac booster was the cause of my worst problems EVER on these brakes...

:beer:
 
I agree: removing the springs will help the air pumping issue, I'll leave mine out when I do the O-rings.

I wonder if these Wilwood calipers have springs behind the pistons.... :rain:

I could not find any more detailed info about these than what's available on Ebay or in vendor's catalogs.....
 
At this time I consider myself very lucky to have a high, hard brake pedal and belive me, I will not TOUCH them until i have reason to. I went through the crappy brake thing many years ago with a '74. I had shitty brakes for about a year. It was about the time that these cars had been around long enought to start having some problems. No one had heard of stainless sleeved Corvette calipers yet. My bores were fine. I even pulled my rear spindles, knocked out the studs, chucked it up in the lathe on the bearing surfaces and machined the stud surface true. I considered removing the springs but never did. Finally shimss did it. If you have spongy brakes or the pedal goes to the floor you have air in the system. That's it, nothing else. Unless you have a hose blowing up like a balloon. No hydroboost will fix that.
 
00fxd said:
At this time I consider myself very lucky to have a high, hard brake pedal and belive me, I will not TOUCH them until i have reason to. I went through the crappy brake thing many years ago with a '74. I had shitty brakes for about a year. It was about the time that these cars had been around long enought to start having some problems. No one had heard of stainless sleeved Corvette calipers yet. My bores were fine. I even pulled my rear spindles, knocked out the studs, chucked it up in the lathe on the bearing surfaces and machined the stud surface true. I considered removing the springs but never did. Finally shimss did it. If you have spongy brakes or the pedal goes to the floor you have air in the system. That's it, nothing else. Unless you have a hose blowing up like a balloon. No hydroboost will fix that.
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Yeh, for sure, BUT when you know the brake hydraulics are FINE, and the pedal still goes down with enough force, and it never wants to really feel decent....

and you swap boosters without doing anything else, not even a brake line is touched and the pedal slams nose into the wheel, and shark stands on his nose....well....

vacuum boosters SUCK.....sorry, but the ONLY CAR I have ever driven with power brakes worth a shit, is NOW this shark....

tap the pedal, stop the car....

none of that 4" of pedal travel and a maybe 'if' feeling....

I drive the Dodge van/truck, or wife's Escort and hate them anymore....

:devil:
 
Make sure you understand that if there is a problem with your brake (hydraulic) system it does not matter how you assist the system, if there is something wrong there is something wrong, changing or amplifying the assist won't make a difference.

If your brake system is good you can lock up the wheels without assist.... if you can't it doesnt matter if you vacuum assist or hydraulicly assist, the brakes are still crap.... it is only a method of assist, nothing else....
 
Not to start sh*t or something...but I believe even the great C-6 Z-06 and the New ZR-1 still use the crappy vacuum brake booster...:shocking:
 
Stock brakes rebuilt with SS lines and Hawk pads are fantastic, as long as you have the tire to grip.

...And $1200 can buy A LOT of nitrous and/or other performance goodies. That is, if going fast is important to you. Otherwise you can point to your shiny new calipers with a logo stamped on them that saved you a whopping 17lbs. :search:

If and when I upgrade my brakes, I'll actually upgrade them. Go big or go home.
 
I have rebuilt my brakes from the fire wall out to all 4 corners,using stock components,and they will slam you're nose into the wheel,no pedal travel,no sponge feeling,and i am still using that JUNK vacuum booster.
While in CA for the Bird run scott asked me how me if my brakes were ok,slammed him forward in his seat,he never asked again (sorry Scott)

I believe if the brakes are not working correctly or feel right and you put on a HB and now they feel better,you are just covering up a fault somewhere in the brake system that needs to be fixed. HB is not the cure all,i have been driving with HB for many years and it feels no different than the vacuum boost.
would i switch to these new calipers? Sure,but mine are working fine right now and it is not an area i need to spend money on.
 
MYBAD79 said:
Make sure you understand that if there is a problem with your brake (hydraulic) system it does not matter how you assist the system, if there is something wrong there is something wrong, changing or amplifying the assist won't make a difference.
If your brake system is good you can lock up the wheels without assist.... if you can't it doesnt matter if you vacuum assist or hydraulicly assist, the brakes are still crap.... it is only a method of assist, nothing else....
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[/QUOTE]I believe if the brakes are not working correctly or feel right and you put on a HB and now they feel better,you are just covering up a fault somewhere in the brake system that needs to be fixed. HB is not the cure all,i have been driving with HB for many years and it feels no different than the vacuum boost.
would i switch to these new calipers? Sure,but mine are working fine right now and it is not an area i need to spend money on.[/QUOTE]

:thumbs:
 
I think a hydroboost setup would probably be able to provide more assist than a vacuum type system. But the reality is, that better or not, I'll bet that everyone on this forum with a properly setup brake system and agressive pads (excluding TT who has those monster slicks on all 4 corners) can lock up their tires at speeds higher than they should be able to. Considering that, I don't see the vacuum assist as the weak link in the chain. As Big G implied, there is plenty of performance potential with a vacuum booster.

Hydroboost is a clever option if you lack the vacuum necessary to run a standard booster, or if a reserve doesn't cut it, OR if you are unwilling to spring for a vacuum pump.

Something else to consider here, if we're talking about high performance than we should also consider the added engine drag and resulting hp loss (if you have a hydroboost please don't try to deny this to justify your purchase, that will just make you sound... like you're trying to justify your purchase) and the extra weight. I ditched my power steering setup a long time ago.
 
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