GM to cancel the volt.....

clutchdust said:
big2bird said:
The Model T Ford revolutionised the way the world does business and life. A practical electric vehicle will do the same. It's just a matter of time.

Pollution will decline.
Noise pollution will decline.
Oil changes a thing of the past.
Oil deposits on roads and freeways will stop.
Storm water runoff/oceanic pollution will decrease.
Photovoltaic usage will increase.
Point of use will decrease transmission line construction.

This will happen. I just do not know when.

A mere 20 years ago, this forum could not exist.
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How do you come to these conclusion? All pie-in-the-sky rose-colored glasses stuff. No one ever thinks about the unintended side effects, partly because we just don't know what they'll be yet.
When we talk about electric vehicles, they'll never come into their own until they have a 1000 mile range on a charge and can be completely recharged over night. How could you make a cross-country trip in a Tesla? Battery weight will have to go down by at least a factor and efficiency will have to go up by several factors. You just can't pour electrons into your car on the side of the road. Not saying it won't happen at some point, but it's not even in the foreseeable future.
As for hydrogen, sounds great and all, but let's talk about those side effects. Out here in the desert, are we really going to pour our precious drinking water into our cars? How stupid is that? On the coast, what would all the desalinization plants look like? Imagine driving in the Pacific NW at rush hour with half a million cars emitting water vapor. You would be swimming home.
Besides, what are we going to do with the oil that is naturally occurring? Just leave it there? Doesn't do the earth any good, right? It's a pollutant in its natural form. We don't eat it, we don't drink it. The only thing it's good for is energy.
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Gary. The Volt has plenty of range. It has an onboard engine generator set. When the batteries are dead, the genny kicks in, and you get 100 MPG. What's not to like about that?
 
The cars are simply too expensive, I can keep driving some POS gasoline burner for years and be cheaper than spending dollars on a electric vehicle or even a hybrid.... just did the math not too long ago when I was considering getting a more fuel efficient vehicle for commute. I just don't see spending 20K or more on a vehicle to safe (maybe) $800 each year in gas.... now.... when gas hits $8 a gallon it will be much more attractive to buy a hybrid or Volt --- it's already at $8 a gallon in Europe.
The other side of this hybrid and electric car hype is the batteries, Tesla says it's $40K to replace them ???? wtf ???? Even if it's only $10K - if you need to replace the battery at 100K miles it pretty much eats up everything you saved on gas...
 
MYBAD79 said:
The cars are simply too expensive, I can keep driving some POS gasoline burner for years and be cheaper than spending dollars on a electric vehicle or even a hybrid.... just did the math not too long ago when I was considering getting a more fuel efficient vehicle for commute. I just don't see spending 20K or more on a vehicle to safe (maybe) $800 each year in gas.... now.... when gas hits $8 a gallon it will be much more attractive to buy a hybrid or Volt --- it's already at $8 a gallon in Europe.
The other side of this hybrid and electric car hype is the batteries, Tesla says it's $40K to replace them ???? wtf ???? Even if it's only $10K - if you need to replace the battery at 100K miles it pretty much eats up everything you saved on gas...
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I understand. That is why I said it will come, not just yet. When fuel hits $10 a gallon, and battery tech gets better, it will happen.
Also, consider this:
No oil changes
No tune ups-No spark plugs, wires,injectors,belts,timing belts, .................
No transmission repairs,fluids.
More than likely cheaper insurence.
Regenerative brakes will extend brake services.
There is a whole slew of advantages. No overheating on hills or in deserts.
I can think of more.
 
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big2bird said:
Gary. The Volt has plenty of range. It has an onboard engine generator set. When the batteries are dead, the genny kicks in, and you get 100 MPG. What's not to like about that?
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Oh, I agree. That's the only way it works, really. I have no problem with that idea (for a commuter). See my previous post. But it's willingly believing something that is untrue if we delude ourselves into believing the volt is anything but a hybrid. At least out here, cost is probably a wash between charging on a 120v residential outlet and letting the on-board generator recharge everything.
Pure electric vehicles simply aren't ready for prime time, and won't be in the foreseeable future.
 
The sad part is that electricity doesn't just come out of the wall.


It has to be produced in some magical fashion. With the all out war on coal and nuclear power driven by a minority faction said production will be diminishing and getting more expensive whilst the solar and wind power dream continues to struggle against inefficiencies and those self same enemies of conventional production.
 
GT6Steve said:
The sad part is that electricity doesn't just come out of the wall.


It has to be produced in some magical fashion. With the all out war on coal and nuclear power driven by a minority faction said production will be diminishing and getting more expensive whilst the solar and wind power dream continues to struggle against inefficiencies and those self same enemies of conventional production.
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Green weenie power is only matched by their stupidity.....

:hissyfit::club:
 
GT6Steve said:
After posting the above I continued to surf and came across this:http://www.grouchyoldcripple.com/

A discussion similar to this one on the cost of a Volt.

Warning, the site is a bit radical rightwing so some of our gentler souls could be offended....The rest of us will LOVE it:rolleyes:
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The price per Kwh was off and the gas price too low, with corrected numbers the whole thing looks like this:


According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity.
It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.

The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so how much do we pay for electricity?

Assume (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $.116 per kwh.

16 kwh x $.116 per kwh = $1.856 to charge the battery.

$1.856 per charge divided by 25 miles (range on battery alone) = $.074 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.

Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine only that gets 32 mpg.

$3.59 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.112 per mile.

The gasoline powered car cost about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000.
 
yes, but I also changed the gas price from 3.19 to 3.59 (which is still too low) ....

The electric car wins a 100K mile comparison but at that age the battery probably needs to be replaced while the gas engine can easily run another 100K.....
 
MYBAD79 said:
yes, but I also changed the gas price from 3.19 to 3.59 (which is still too low) ....

The electric car wins a 100K mile comparison but at that age the battery probably needs to be replaced while the gas engine can easily run another 100K.....
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At 100K miles you saved less than $5000 (actually $3800). You woud have to drive the Volt for more than 500K miles just to break even on the 46K vs. 15K
 
correct... if you add the high price it'll take 500K miles and a few new batteries to brake even.....
However, there are companies who provide parking spots with power outlet to charge electric vehicles so it's down to $0 per mile if you live within 12.5 miles (25 miles roundtrip)....
 
MYBAD79 said:
correct... if you add the high price it'll take 500K miles and a few new batteries to brake even.....
However, there are companies who provide parking spots with power outlet to charge electric vehicles so it's down to $0 per mile if you live within 12.5 miles (25 miles roundtrip)....
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If you drive 25 mile round trip every day of the year it will only take you 50 years to break even :nuts:
 
BBShark said:
MYBAD79 said:
correct... if you add the high price it'll take 500K miles and a few new batteries to brake even.....
However, there are companies who provide parking spots with power outlet to charge electric vehicles so it's down to $0 per mile if you live within 12.5 miles (25 miles roundtrip)....
Click to expand...

If you drive 25 mile round trip every day of the year it will only take you 50 years to break even :nuts:
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Taking in account the constant rise of gas price over time?
 
MYBAD79 said:
yes, but I also changed the gas price from 3.19 to 3.59 (which is still too low) ....

The electric car wins a 100K mile comparison but at that age the battery probably needs to be replaced while the gas engine can easily run another 100K.....
Click to expand...

easily after a rebuild. About 4 grand. That number sounds familiar.
 
Denpo, Electricity is gonna stay cheap as the greenies attack the sources????????

Face it, the ultimate goal is to drive us back to the stone age where Flintstones beat out the Jetsons, probably under sharia. :eek:
 
big2bird said:
The Model T Ford revolutionised the way the world does business and life. A practical electric vehicle will do the same. It's just a matter of time.

Pollution will decline.
Noise pollution will decline.
Oil changes a thing of the past.
Oil deposits on roads and freeways will stop.
Storm water runoff/oceanic pollution will decrease.
Photovoltaic usage will increase.
Point of use will decrease transmission line construction.

This will happen. I just do not know when.

A mere 20 years ago, this forum could not exist.
Click to expand...

And remember, the rise of the popularity of the automobile in it's infancy was in very large part due to the problems & pollutions of the horse. Horse shit & piss all over the streets, dead ones left laying around, the smell & flies & related vermin and constant need for upkeep of them. The expense of feed, care, shelter. The hassle of hitching up and having to rely on the tempermant of an animal. Etc.
The automobile was expensive, finicky, unknown, threatening at first but look how quickly it became so popular once the technology began to advance by demand, to make it simpler, easier & relatively cheaper to maintain than a horse.
And horses have not been outlawed in this day, they are the hobbies & livelyhoods of those who love them as well as still indispensible in certain applications. The gasoline car will share a similar fate.
 
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JPhil said:
And remember, the rise of the popularity of the automobile in it's infancy was in very large part due to the problems & pollutions of the horse. Horse shit all over the streets
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we still have the horse shit, it just all comes from Washington DC.
 
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