New forum section

[clutchdust]

Ahhh, so that's what this is all about? The politics policy? Fine, fuck it, Dep. You want your own section? Then I'm all for it. I gave up on the political threads, didn't ask for them to be banned. I just chose to stop participating in them because I was starting to not like some people, and that's not something I want here.
I still frequent CFOT because that's all the site is good for. But I can't say I genuinely dislike anybody here. That was starting to change with the political threads because in many of them it was not a debate, just verbal jabs and mockery. I mean seriously, I thought this site was dedicated to the Corvette hobby and that an OT section here was just a secondary distraction for when one of us did something stupid or wanted to brag or whatever. If you want to talk PR&C, go back over to CF, going like gangbusters over there. Generally, I stay out of that mudpit anyway.
But personally, I'll be happy in 8 days when it's all over but the crying (for four years anyway).

 

[68L71]

I think it is more than just politics. That fact that there are limitations on what we can post causes some to just forget OT all together. I know they were reluctant to have an OT at VM anyway so it probably doesn't seem like a big deal. It drives traffic and those same people that no longer check here as often, no longer participate in the the non OT threads as often either.

 

[JPhil]

I haven't seen evidence of "censorship", just a request to tone it down. I admit I got vehement more than once on political issues, and have voluntarily decided not to engage in such topics anymore. I also do not participate in the technical side as much anymore because some things have changed in my life and I do not not spend nearly as much time with the car as I used to, so I have little to contribute. But I see no need whatsoever for a seperate section for "old timers" just for pissing & moaning about days gone by. That's what the local VFW post is for.
I still value VM very much and am appreciative of all it is and also what it is not.

 

[DJ Dep]

:bullshit:

Why would people leave? Too heavily moderated? not getting along with others and deciding to pack bags?

Enlighten me... what is brewing behind the scenes that I obviously don't know about??

Now, this is funny :harhar:

Not really. Forum members leaving is hardly a humorous thing.

You've mistaken my meaning. I totally agree with you.
It seems that some of the people that imposed the censorship and treated some of their biggest customers like little girls are now totally clueless as to why the forums post count has dropped dramatically.
POLITICS are a normal part of ADULT conversation, and this IS the "off topic" section. With normal people, if you don't like a situation or a thread, you avoid it. But here, they used the excuse that a few young girls weren't adapt enough to just go to the next thread and get over it, to banish political threads.
A few months ago, the political threads were 2/3 ?? of the daily post count.
So what did they think was going to happen when they imposed censorship?
You are now seeing the result.
I don't like it, but I do agree that this is a privately owned forum, and I agree that they should be able to edit content. But don't act like you don't know why this happened (tt)

Geez...I got to bed and get back up and all kinds of stuff is discussed!!! :amazed:
Let me address and answer a few issues:
First off let me say I haven't been on the forum for quite a while and am totally clueless about the politics discussions and what was talked about.
We've all heard the saying that the two things you don't talk about unless you want to get in a major argument are politics and religion. People feel very strongly about both and most times you aren't gonna change the way they feel. I put that in the forum owners domain as far as forbidding it or not. In a forum about Corvettes, it's pretty hard to relate politics with cars. Although I can maybe see it happen if there are discussions about gasoline or an attack on performance cars. That has certainly happened in the past. My reason for requesting a seperate section really had NOTHING to do with whatever problems there were with political discussions. I didn't participate in those political discussions and really couldn't car less about them. If you look at my three reasons in the first post, NOWHERE did I mention politics or political discussions. It was strictly intended as a way to bring back guys that had quit because they weren't able to "fit in" with the rest of the forum...whatever the reason.

"theres one thing that will screw up a site, any site, it's where a few start to make separate, private, just for a chosen few area like you are trying to do."

That is pure:crap: and :bullshit: I am on a gun forum called Glock Talk and they have a section for charter members. It hasn't screwed up the site at all.
It allows guys who were the pioneers in starting a forum a place to discuss all kinds of things that newer members wouldn't understand or be able to relate to or even be interested in. Note that on the Corvette Forum they now give recognition to members who have been there for 10 years or more by showing it in the information box below the avatar. That hasn't caused ANY controversy. I find it interesting that of the no votes, FIVE of them are from people who weren't even here in 2008. If you weren't part of the exodus from CF/DC back in 2008, then you really have no clue about what we are talking about. Many of us (including Turtle and myself) have been banned from BOTH of the other forums for being "outspoken" about certain subjects. VM was SUPPOSED to be a place where you could talk about things you were banned for on the other forums. Now it seems that isn't allowed. So VM has turned into CF and DC. At least if there was a seperate area for those who don't want to go with touchy-feely posts, and that seems to mainly be the ones that joined in 2008, they could be forum members and be able to speak their mind. Having a seperate section for 2008 members shouldn't matter to anyone who joined after 2008. I doubt you would want to be in that group anyway.
Unfortunately, many of the people who left VM seem to be adamant in not wanting to return. So having a seperate section may end up being a mute point. Even if it was created, they wouldn't come back. Those political discussions must have really been something. :clobbered:

 

[Twin_Turbo]

TT: I will PM you, but I think you already know who I am talking about.
On second thought, I'll send an e-mail. PMs on forums aren't exactly "private".

Yes they are, they are not listed anywhere and apear encrypted in the database. In other words, no one can read your pm apart from you and the recipient. I dont get why you would make an accusation like that.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Why would people leave? Too heavily moderated? not getting along with others and deciding to pack bags?

Enlighten me... what is brewing behind the scenes that I obviously don't know about??

Now, this is funny :harhar:

Please enlighten me how this is funny?

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Why would people leave? Too heavily moderated? not getting along with others and deciding to pack bags?

Enlighten me... what is brewing behind the scenes that I obviously don't know about??

Now, this is funny :harhar:

Not really. Forum members leaving is hardly a humorous thing.

You've mistaken my meaning. I totally agree with you.
It seems that some of the people that imposed the censorship and treated some of their biggest customers like little girls are now totally clueless as to why the forums post count has dropped dramatically.
POLITICS are a normal part of ADULT conversation, and this IS the "off topic" section. With normal people, if you don't like a situation or a thread, you avoid it. But here, they used the excuse that a few young girls weren't adapt enough to just go to the next thread and get over it, to banish political threads.
A few months ago, the political threads were 2/3 ?? of the daily post count.
So what did they think was going to happen when they imposed censorship?
You are now seeing the result.
I don't like it, but I do agree that this is a privately owned forum, and I agree that they should be able to edit content. But don't act like you don't know why this happened (tt)

We have to filter out the factors here!! OT was not made a de-political zone just because we wanted to. It was because it was becoming one big bar fight over there and if it isn't the one half screaming blood & murder and the others wanting changes made because of an intolerable situation it's this...a haphazard plea to bring it back.

Answer me this, getting rid of politics was not done to upset some people but here it's made to look like it's some kind of evil scheme to upset some people.

And turtle, growing it to make money? It's only costing money and time. What a fucking insulting remark!! It really pisses me off. You are here free of charge yet you make accusations that do not hold water.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

But don't act like you don't know why this happened (tt)

Until now I was clueless. I still don't get it, all this drama over nothing. You still can say whatever you want here, no one was ever banned for speaking their mind, however the limitations are a direct result of y'all not playing nice and taking advantage of the lenient rules here. And now you make it as if it's OUR fault, no specifically Larrys fault because he imposed the limitation. What wa he gonna do? Let it all just run it's course?

And the fact that Bird apparently left because of this, I find that upsetting but also a little weak on his side.

Let's imagine he's doing another bird run. All you folks are sitting at the table eating and conversating and 1 person starts with political or religious crap that some agree with and others don't, INSTANT 2 camps! Then it gets heated, more heated and at the end people are at each others throats with steak knives, broken beer bottles and dep with his glock....

A REALLY healthy situation, once that should be kindled right???

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Dep, next time you send me an email via VM make sure you have the email addy correct in your profile. I can't reply and get it returned (juno address)

 

[DJ Dep]

TT: I will PM you, but I think you already know who I am talking about.
On second thought, I'll send an e-mail. PMs on forums aren't exactly "private".

Yes they are, they are not listed anywhere and apear encrypted in the database. In other words, no one can read your pm apart from you and the recipient. I dont get why you would make an accusation like that.

Because I've had it happen on other forums. And I am NOT talking about forum members reading PMs. At any rate, it was pretty much what has already been posted by me. It is NOT about politics and religion. At least, it isn't for me. I rarely if ever get in those types of discussions. Only time would be as I said...if political decisions went against hot rod owners or there was some new ruling on gasoline (like what is being talked about in the US concerning upping the ethanol levels). And I haven't talked about those two subjects in ages.

As to this place making money...it was stated back when we (meaning the 2008 folks) came here that this forum was looking at getting sponsors and that we (the membership) would have to "tone down" our discussions. I was sent a warning letter, as were many others, about this very subject. And I complied with what they asked. And that was FOUR YEARS AGO!! If this place isn't getting sponsors after 4 years, then either the owner doesn't want them, or someone doesn't know how to draw sponsorship. Blaming us is pure BS. No one was ever banned for speaking their mind. That MAY be true, but I sure got some major warnings back in 2008. And it WAS for speaking my mind. Again...I complied with those warnings and backed off.

As to the reasons why people left....and again, I wasn't present so this is hearsay, but from what I understand it was NOT because forum members were in heated exchanges with eash other. It was because Larry was in heated exchanges with forum members and he didn't like what he was hearing. That's a completely different situation than forum members arguing.
I can argue or disagree with Howard or Bird or Turtle and our friendship doesn't get involved. It's different when the forum owner argues with a forum member. Again...this is hearsay so I don't know the legitimacy of it. But I heard it independently from multiple members, so I am inclined to believe it.

Bird is a good friend of mine. As a matter of fact, he was the one that invited me to this place. I'm sure he invited a lot of others who now seem to have short memories. Bird is also one of the easiest guys I know to get along with and will go out of his way to help someone out. For him to leave tells me that something was VERY wrong. You can call it "nothing", but I just don't buy that. A guy like him doesn't leave over "nothing".

TT, you have been an excellent moderator and a good guy since I've know you back at CF. I still think that is so. I think you are in a tough spot and I understand that. I pretty much know now that a section for the refugees from CF and DC isn't going to happen. It's just a shame to see good guys who can contribute valuable info and advice and assistance leave.

Dep
P.S. My e-mail is mbonomo@*juno.com. Delete the asterisk. It's there so that I don't get spammed.

 

[Bullshark]

Bird got his feather's fluffed over this? I find that hard to believe having known and met him in the past. Jeff....tell me it ain't true. These guys must be blowing this out of proportion.
Bullshark

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Exactly, I have met him too.... something else must be going on. I don't believe he left because of the no politics rule.

 

[turtlevette]

:. If you weren't part of the exodus from CF/DC back in 2008, then you really have no clue about what we are talking about. Many of us (including Turtle and myself) have been banned from BOTH of the other forums for being "outspoken" about certain subjects. VM was SUPPOSED to be a place where you could talk about things you were banned for on the other forums. Now it seems that isn't allowed. So VM has turned into CF and DC.:

Exactly. The "owners" here now look at us like the dirty dozen was looked upon by CF and DC.

It's amazing how quickly they forget. And why should i kiss ass because someone is paying a nominal fee to keep this place going. Seems we keep getting reminded over and over. The same way CF wanted us to kiss their ass.

Hell, spread the cost out. I bet we could get a core group to pay the fees here. Make it a non profit consortium. That shouldn't be a problem if noone is looking to profit.

I don't know, maybe Bird is gonna start his own deal and build it correctly from the ground up.

 

[mrvette]

:. If you weren't part of the exodus from CF/DC back in 2008, then you really have no clue about what we are talking about. Many of us (including Turtle and myself) have been banned from BOTH of the other forums for being "outspoken" about certain subjects. VM was SUPPOSED to be a place where you could talk about things you were banned for on the other forums. Now it seems that isn't allowed. So VM has turned into CF and DC.:

Exactly. The "owners" here now look at us like the dirty dozen was looked upon by CF and DC.

It's amazing how quickly they forget. And why should i kiss ass because someone is paying a nominal fee to keep this place going. Seems we keep getting reminded over and over. The same way CF wanted us to kiss their ass.

Hell, spread the cost out. I bet we could get a core group to pay the fees here. Make it a non profit consortium. That shouldn't be a problem if noone is looking to profit.

I don't know, maybe Bird is gonna start his own deal and build it correctly from the ground up.

:shocking: I THINK, I volunteered to help out a bit, long time ago...on the bux side anyway, I not good enough to do much else with computers.....and too ornery to learn....:crap::beer:

 

[Twin_Turbo]

:. If you weren't part of the exodus from CF/DC back in 2008, then you really have no clue about what we are talking about. Many of us (including Turtle and myself) have been banned from BOTH of the other forums for being "outspoken" about certain subjects. VM was SUPPOSED to be a place where you could talk about things you were banned for on the other forums. Now it seems that isn't allowed. So VM has turned into CF and DC.:

Exactly. The "owners" here now look at us like the dirty dozen was looked upon by CF and DC.

Complete BS has anyone here ever treated you differently from others? In fact, you have received the most leniency of all so as such you were treated better than others

It's amazing how quickly they forget. And why should i kiss ass because someone is paying a nominal fee to keep this place going. Seems we keep getting reminded over and over. The same way CF wanted us to kiss their ass.

You kiss ass? You have never kissed ass and you were never asked to kiss ass. You were always treated with silk gloves man, don't BS here... same as above!!

Hell, spread the cost out. I bet we could get a core group to pay the fees here. Make it a non profit consortium. That shouldn't be a problem if noone is looking to profit.

I don't know, maybe Bird is gonna start his own deal and build it correctly from the ground up.

If he does I hope he succeeds but he will also find out that it's a lot harder operating a forum and keeping everyone happy... a lot harder than being a little complaining nancy....

 

[MYBAD79]

Exactly. The "owners" here now look at us like the dirty dozen was looked upon by CF and DC.

It's amazing how quickly they forget. And why should i kiss ass because someone is paying a nominal fee to keep this place going. Seems we keep getting reminded over and over. The same way CF wanted us to kiss their ass.

Hell, spread the cost out. I bet we could get a core group to pay the fees here. Make it a non profit consortium. That shouldn't be a problem if noone is looking to profit.

I don't know, maybe Bird is gonna start his own deal and build it correctly from the ground up.

:bullshit:

nobody is asking you to kiss anything. You don't have to kiss ass and you don't have to act like one either.

We simply don't want members to start fights over political discussions - which would certainly happen. How many mods do you see here? Do you think I want to spend hours every day moderating political crap so that things are not getting out of control?

 

[turtlevette]

Complete BS has anyone here ever treated you differently from others? In fact, you have received the most leniency of all so as such you were treated better than others

You kiss ass? You have never kissed ass and you were never asked to kiss ass. You were always treated with silk gloves man, don't BS here... same as above!!

Right. I have not kissed ass

I like you and consider you a friend. Reading through the mods section years ago, it appears you and Larry think i'm Damian. LOL

 

[Ricisan]

Listed in Hot Topics!

If it wasn't for being listed in the Hot Topics section, I would have never noticed or cared or posted about this.

That being said, the internet is filled w/forums where people can say almost anything about anyone to their hearts content.

Why would we need something like this on a Vette website I do not know.

There are very few places where guys like me can pick the brains of members who have forgotten more that I will ever know about Vettes. Losing this website would be a loss to many of us who are just interested in our cars!

R

 

[GT6Steve]

Jeez, this is a pitiful debate so unworthy of the forum. Get over it.

I contribute cash to several forums I value cuz they're worth the investment for the interchange. If that's what we need to stop the whining here I'm willing.

I got $100 bux to support this forum and minimize the little girl rants.

Who's next?:bomb:

 

[mrvette]

Complete BS has anyone here ever treated you differently from others? In fact, you have received the most leniency of all so as such you were treated better than others

You kiss ass? You have never kissed ass and you were never asked to kiss ass. You were always treated with silk gloves man, don't BS here... same as above!!

Right. I have not kissed ass

I like you and consider you a friend. Reading through the mods section years ago, it appears you and Larry think i'm Damian. LOL

:shocking:prrtt: WELL, aren't you???prrtt::beer: