harmonic distortion damaging electrical items

[DeeVeeEight]

I am no expert on this, but common sense tells me NOT to plug my genny into the house wiring without a proper power switching/isolation system of some kind. When I do lose power, I simply run a 12/2 ext. cord from my genny to a 6 outlet power strip, then I plug in the fridge, a light or two and the TV and wait for the power co. to make repairs.
My house is over 100 yrs old and I do not trust that Joe Homeowner has not made a few unqualified improvements over the years.

 

[mrvette]

I am no expert on this, but common sense tells me NOT to plug my genny into the house wiring without a proper power switching/isolation system of some kind. When I do lose power, I simply run a 12/2 ext. cord from my genny to a 6 outlet power strip, then I plug in the fridge, a light or two and the TV and wait for the power co. to make repairs.
My house is over 100 yrs old and I do not trust that Joe Homeowner has not made a few unqualified improvements over the years.

My sis had a really really really olde tyme stone house on the main drag rt11, right in the middle of Shippensburg Pa. just south of the Carlisle car shows.....well this joint was built way in hell before the Civil War, and so it had built in slave hiding quarters that served for the underground railroad.....that much was proven fact.....well anyway, that house had service tags written by Tom Edison hisself on it....wiring was still live knob and spool, run through walls and joist floors on glass standoffs same as a power pole on the street.....well naturall some remodeling had be done, and so I got elected to hold hands and man what a nitemare....open wire nutz I uncovered when pulling flooring, all sorts of lovely stuff, Frankensteins' castle....just like the movie....

:rofl::flash:

 

[big2bird]

Lot of good points,,


is this safe??
http://www.green-trust.org/generator/genny_install.htm

That would appear to meet the spirit of the codes. I have no problems with that setup, and looks quite economical too. Good find.

 

[Jsup]

The main does not disconnect the nuetral feeder. If the gennie is hooked up incorrectly, or the secondary feeder has lost it's ground to the grounded conductor, you could still KILL the guy trying to restore your power.[/QUOTE]

Now, I'm not justifying my position here....I know it's not by the book.

However, my house is only 6 years old. I ran the 240VAC lines directly from the panel to the outlet myself. Each on its own breaker. The neutral is in the right place, and I used a 4 position locking plug and grounded the outlet to a spike outside my shed.

I'm 100% certain it's wired correctly.

Anyway, do you have a link to a decent disconnect that I can hard wire? The generator plugs in about 100 feet from the box.

 

[big2bird]

Read your home ins policy

We all know ins companies love to pay out big $$$$$$$$$.:rofl:
Read your policy. IF you have a fire, ins. companies love a way out.
SOME policies, in the fine print, state that if they find "illegal" modifications, uninspected wiring faults/installations, or non UL labeled electrical apparatus, they DON'T have to pay you a dime.
Just an FYI.

 

[mrvette]

We all know ins companies love to pay out big $$$$$$$$$.:rofl:
Read your policy. IF you have a fire, ins. companies love a way out.
SOME policies, in the fine print, state that if they find "illegal" modifications, uninspected wiring faults/installations, or non UL labeled electrical apparatus, they DON'T have to pay you a dime.
Just an FYI.

YUPPERS, especially on electricals....bet on it, that shit kills, water/plumbing maybe cause you to swim a bit.....but that's it....

:rain::flash:

 

[big2bird]

Anyway, do you have a link to a decent disconnect that I can hard wire? The generator plugs in about 100 feet from the box.

This one is under $60,000 (Installation not included):shocking:

Just kidding. PM me your e-mail, and I can see what you have, and the easiest method to comply.

 

[Jsup]

We all know ins companies love to pay out big $$$$$$$$$.:rofl:
Read your policy. IF you have a fire, ins. companies love a way out.
SOME policies, in the fine print, state that if they find "illegal" modifications, uninspected wiring faults/installations, or non UL labeled electrical apparatus, they DON'T have to pay you a dime.
Just an FYI.

It's a 240VAC outlet. Not illegal. TO run tools in my shed. I do it all by the book with the best equipment only. All my wire is over sized, 12 GAUGE when I can get away with 14, and braided to run cooler and inside of conduit where under ground and even in the shed. I think anyone would have a hard time taking a position something isn't done right.

 

[Jsup]

Anyway, do you have a link to a decent disconnect that I can hard wire? The generator plugs in about 100 feet from the box.

This one is under $60,000 (Installation not included):shocking:

Just kidding. PM me your e-mail, and I can see what you have, and the easiest method to comply.

Will do. Gotta run now. Do you want pictures?

 

[big2bird]

We all know ins companies love to pay out big $$$$$$$$$.:rofl:
Read your policy. IF you have a fire, ins. companies love a way out.
SOME policies, in the fine print, state that if they find "illegal" modifications, uninspected wiring faults/installations, or non UL labeled electrical apparatus, they DON'T have to pay you a dime.
Just an FYI.

It's a 240VAC outlet. Not illegal. TO run tools in my shed. I do it all by the book with the best equipment only. All my wire is braded to run cooler and inside of conduit where under ground and even in the shed. I think anyone would have a hard time taking a position something isn't done right.

My statement was not directed at anyone in particular. Just stating a fact for anyone reading this.
What is braded?

 

[Jsup]

We all know ins companies love to pay out big $$$$$$$$$.:rofl:
Read your policy. IF you have a fire, ins. companies love a way out.
SOME policies, in the fine print, state that if they find "illegal" modifications, uninspected wiring faults/installations, or non UL labeled electrical apparatus, they DON'T have to pay you a dime.
Just an FYI.

It's a 240VAC outlet. Not illegal. TO run tools in my shed. I do it all by the book with the best equipment only. All my wire is braded to run cooler and inside of conduit where under ground and even in the shed. I think anyone would have a hard time taking a position something isn't done right.

My statement was not directed at anyone in particular. Just stating a fact for anyone reading this.
What is braded?

Not solid core wire, braided wire. The reason is braided wire carries more current and runs cooler for the size. For example, 14 gauge solid core, like ROMEX, is good for 15 amps. Braided wire will support 20.

I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass so don't hold me to them. Point is the same sized braided wire is good for more current because the braids run cooler.

It's the wire that comes on a spool about 6 inches across. It's better wire I use it everywhere I can. It's also easier to snake through conduit.

 

[big2bird]

Not solid core wire, braided wire. The reason is braided wire carries more current and runs cooler for the size. Wrong For example, 14 gauge solid core, like ROMEX, is good for 15 amps. Braided wire will support 20.Wrong

I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass so don't hold me to them. Point is the same sized braided wire is good for more current because the braids run cooler.Wrong

It's the wire that comes on a spool about 6 inches across. It's better wire I use it everywhere I can. It's also easier to snake through conduit.Correct

Read NEC article 310-16
Stranded conductors also have a larger cross sectional area than solid conductors.
Ampacity is based on conductor insulation type after applying derating factors such as raceway fill and ambient temperature.

 

[mrvette]

Not solid core wire, braided wire. The reason is braided wire carries more current and runs cooler for the size. Wrong For example, 14 gauge solid core, like ROMEX, is good for 15 amps. Braided wire will support 20.Wrong

I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass so don't hold me to them. Point is the same sized braided wire is good for more current because the braids run cooler.Wrong

It's the wire that comes on a spool about 6 inches across. It's better wire I use it everywhere I can. It's also easier to snake through conduit.Correct

Read NEC article 310-16
Stranded conductors also have a larger cross sectional area than solid conductors.
Ampacity is based on conductor insulation type after applying derating factors such as raceway fill and ambient temperature.

Bingo, Bird, never bet against Bird on electricals.....

he even knows delta from wye......


:yahoo:

 

[010752]

We all know ins companies love to pay out big $$$$$$$$$.:rofl:
Read your policy. IF you have a fire, ins. companies love a way out.
SOME policies, in the fine print, state that if they find "illegal" modifications, uninspected wiring faults/installations, or non UL labeled electrical apparatus, they DON'T have to pay you a dime.
Just an FYI.

It's a 240VAC outlet. Not illegal. TO run tools in my shed. I do it all by the book with the best equipment only. All my wire is braded to run cooler and inside of conduit where under ground and even in the shed. I think anyone would have a hard time taking a position something isn't done right.

My statement was not directed at anyone in particular. Just stating a fact for anyone reading this.
What is braded?

This is braded. :bounce:

 

[Jsup]

Bird.......I'm not questioning you by any means.

Let me tell you what we are told when wiring boats. Not that I do it for a living, but as a hobby, I work on my boats.

We are told that using stranded wires in a boat reduces heat on that wire and that the wire can support more amperage on a similar gauge. This is by the ABYC recommendations. Why would it apply in marine applications but not in this situation?

 

[big2bird]

Bird.......I'm not questioning you by any means.

Let me tell you what we are told when wiring boats. Not that I do it for a living, but as a hobby, I work on my boats.

We are told that using stranded wires in a boat reduces heat on that wire and that the wire can support more amperage on a similar gauge. This is by the ABYC recommendations. Why would it apply in marine applications but not in this situation?

Unknown. I am, however, intrigued. Got a link??

 

[Jsup]

Bird.......I'm not questioning you by any means.

Let me tell you what we are told when wiring boats. Not that I do it for a living, but as a hobby, I work on my boats.

We are told that using stranded wires in a boat reduces heat on that wire and that the wire can support more amperage on a similar gauge. This is by the ABYC recommendations. Why would it apply in marine applications but not in this situation?

Unknown. I am, however, intrigued. Got a link??

http://www.pkys.com/Reference.htm

Not exactly what I was looking for. I'll keep looking. Note it mentions 105*.


http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/elect.html#Low Voltage Wiring
Low Voltage Wiring: Less than 50 volts

Low voltage conductors must comply with SAE standard J1127 and J1128 and the insulation temperature rating of SAE J378b or UL standard 1426.

Look at the labeling on the wire. Does it say UL Marine? Does it have an SAE or ISO rating? If there is no label on the wire is the spool or package labeled? Many wire manufacturers don't label the wire but they do label the package it comes in.

DO NOT use wire that has no labeling on the wire or on the spool or packaging.

DO NOT go to your local auto store and buy automotive wiring off the shelf! Get your wire from a marine supply. Ask them if it is labeled and what the label says.

DO NOT USE ROMEX.

DO USE UL BOAT CABLE.

 

[010752]

Hey Bird.

Probably the biggest differences in marine wiring is that each individual strand is tinned, copper connectors are also tinned, and the wire covering is moisture and fuel resistant.

Here is a link to the marine sizing recommendations and I believe it is for dc only.

http://bluesea.com/viewresource/535

http://bluesea.com/viewresource/529

 

[big2bird]

DO NOT use solid conductor, aluminum conductor, ROMEX, or anything other than a good copper marine grade wire. Wiring in boats is subject to severe shock, vibration and flexing. Stranded wire is required because it is more flexible and if one or two strands break, you still have a connection. Use UL boat cable labeled UL 1426.



That's pretty much a requirement whenever vibration or flexibility is required.

You have to keep in mind, for every code there are also exceptions. Once you have memorised all the codes, the exceptions, then digest the INTENT as a whole, then take 2 years of electrical theory, it gels in your head.
I check for updates about once a year, but the rest is second nature at my age.
And yes, trust me on this, some guys I work with don't get it, and never will. :banghead:

 

[big2bird]

Hey Bird.

Probably the biggest differences in marine wiring is that each individual strand is tinned, copper connectors are also tinned, and the wire covering is moisture and fuel resistant.

Here is a link to the marine sizing recommendations and I believe it is for dc only.

http://bluesea.com/viewresource/535

http://bluesea.com/viewresource/529

Oh yeah. Iv'e done some Marina work, and do the Newport Beach Yacht show twice a year. All that crap is tinned/silver plated for corrosion resistance. Salt water eats all that stuff, but you guys know that better than I. Hell, we even have some local munincipalities that forbide EMT outside within 3 MILES of the ocean.:lol: