How is this idea GM?

[Jsup]

More evidence we have become a society that wants to be devoid of consequence and is looking to a toward a parental government at every turn to take money from the responsible and give it to the irresponsible.

Management, the unions, caused the problem let them burn.

We were told the banking bailout was going to fix everything. It didn't.

These arrogant liberal a-holes like Pelosi have to stop trying to engineer their societal utopia through the micromanagment of private business.

We see California handing out IOUs because they can't pay their bills and they want montye from me, in NJ who has nothing to do with it to fix their problems. Let them crash.

The problem here is people's vision of the role of government. This auto mess simply demonstrates that.

 

[big2bird]

Management, the unions, caused the problem let them burn.

Sounds like Nero to me.. Got your fiddle?:search:

 

[big2bird]

The "Big" picture

The part that scares me the MOST, is the immediate WORLD wide downfall, proving that it is indeed a WORLD economy.
We NEED to take care of our own, and let me explain my reasoning.
IF the world leaders do not get together and solve this, countries will take measures to save THEMSELVES. This is human nature. Survival is our strongest instinct.
If matters worsen, countries will do things to help themselves, snowballing into a dog eat dog world. Communists and Islamic nations will point out they were right about the failure of capatalism.
Call it the pre curser to an "Economic World War III".
I very much see this as a present danger to the world we live in. I am not what I would consider paranoid, but I can see a need to keep our strength.

 

[big2bird]

I would also have to say the "investment" in loans for saving one of America's largest economies is "bus fare", and a much more intelligent investment than the war with Iraq and Afghanistan.
THAT is the biggest waste of all.

 

[mrvette]

I would also have to say the "investment" in loans for saving one of America's largest economies is "bus fare", and a much more intelligent investment than the war with Iraq and Afghanistan.
THAT is the biggest waste of all.

I agree with you, and certainly over the way the war is conducted today....

I would win that terror war in 6 weeks or less.....easy do....but then again, I think that China fellow there....Sun Tsue (sp?) had it right....

but it's not PC....:crap:

 

[Jsup]

Management, the unions, caused the problem let them burn.

Sounds like Nero to me.. Got your fiddle?:search:

So? The union's extortion and management bad decisions does not translate to a financial burden to me and my kids, and probably their kids.

I was not a party to the deals, I had no say in the deal, therefore, I should not pay for it.

The economy will survive, the country will survive, and as far as I'm concerned be better off for it.

 

[Jsup]

I would also have to say the "investment" in loans for saving one of America's largest economies is "bus fare", and a much more intelligent investment than the war with Iraq and Afghanistan.
THAT is the biggest waste of all.

Wrong. Buzzzz....wrong.

The numbers don't support that.

And let me add this. Agree with the war or not isn't the issue.

The issue is one of the role of government. War and national security is the role of government. Bailing out failed companies isn't.

And finally let me finish with......because you pissed money away in one place is no justification to throw it away in another.

How about Phillip Morris, 1000s of people work there, do we bail them out or is it not PC enough? Or how about Mack Truck?

When is it the government's role to decide which compaines live and die. LET THEM DIE. The unions and management need to be broken. They get exactly what they deserve.

 

[mrvette]

I would also have to say the "investment" in loans for saving one of America's largest economies is "bus fare", and a much more intelligent investment than the war with Iraq and Afghanistan.
THAT is the biggest waste of all.

Wrong. Buzzzz....wrong.

The numbers don't support that.

And let me add this. Agree with the war or not isn't the issue.

The issue is one of the role of government. War and national security is the role of government. Bailing out failed companies isn't.

And finally let me finish with......because you pissed money away in one place is no justification to throw it away in another.

How about Phillip Morris, 1000s of people work there, do we bail them out or is it not PC enough? Or how about Mack Truck?

When is it the government's role to decide which compaines live and die. LET THEM DIE. The unions and management need to be broken. They get exactly what they deserve.

EXCEPT that the sum total of all this .gov fuckups is to put GM/F/Ch out of business....public policy.....tax breaks to the import companies, taxes out the ass to OUR companies......now pushing this phoney electric car crap on them.....stupid stealership laws that GM can't cancel....wonder how THAT came about??? they did manage to shut down OLDS, after all.....

All I see is any actual productive company is penalized while on productive entities are rewarded.....

a BANK never made a damn thing.....neither did a .gov worker....

they are OVERHEAD, pure and simple.....

 

[Jsup]

EXCEPT that the sum total of all this .gov fuckups is to put GM/F/Ch out of business....public policy.....tax breaks to the import companies, taxes out the ass to OUR companies......now pushing this phoney electric car crap on them.....stupid stealership laws that GM can't cancel....wonder how THAT came about??? they did manage to shut down OLDS, after all.....

I disagree with none of that, still not reason enough to pick my pocket. Union excess killed them. That is the primary reason.

a BANK never made a damn thing.....neither did a .gov worker....

On that I disagree. Try to start a bushiness without a bank. Banks are just as instrumental in building this country, even more so, than the manufacturers. If there were no banks, there would be no manufacturers.

 

[mrvette]

EXCEPT that the sum total of all this .gov fuckups is to put GM/F/Ch out of business....public policy.....tax breaks to the import companies, taxes out the ass to OUR companies......now pushing this phoney electric car crap on them.....stupid stealership laws that GM can't cancel....wonder how THAT came about??? they did manage to shut down OLDS, after all.....

I disagree with none of that, still not reason enough to pick my pocket. Union excess killed them. That is the primary reason.

a BANK never made a damn thing.....neither did a .gov worker....

On that I disagree. Try to start a bushiness without a bank. Banks are just as instrumental in building this country, even more so, than the manufacturers. If there were no banks, there would be no manufacturers.

Banks handle paperwork, transfer money.....show me how they ever MAKE anything.....sure they are necessary, but I can't put nearly as much credit to their existance as a road builder, car maker, plane mfgr, gasoline producing company, ship builder.....you know, people who actually DO something besides fly a desk and fret over papers all day.....

:crap:

 

[Jsup]

QUOTE=mrvette;27823]
Banks handle paperwork, transfer money.....show me how they ever MAKE anything.....sure they are necessary, but I can't put nearly as much credit to their existance as a road builder, car maker, plane mfgr, gasoline producing company, ship builder.....you know, people who actually DO something besides fly a desk and fret over papers all day.....

:crap:[/QUOTE]

None of that happens without........banks.

I you start a company and need money to get it going, someone puts up that money. They have contributed to your business as much as you have. They have performed. Without them, you have no business.

Try to hire people, buy supplies, raw materials, without a bank.

Can't do it. The banks did create something, the business. The business creates the product/service.

 

[mrvette]

QUOTE=mrvette;27823]
Banks handle paperwork, transfer money.....show me how they ever MAKE anything.....sure they are necessary, but I can't put nearly as much credit to their existance as a road builder, car maker, plane mfgr, gasoline producing company, ship builder.....you know, people who actually DO something besides fly a desk and fret over papers all day.....

:crap:

None of that happens without........banks.

I you start a company and need money to get it going, someone puts up that money. They have contributed to your business as much as you have. They have performed. Without them, you have no business.

Try to hire people, buy supplies, raw materials, without a bank.

Can't do it. The banks did create something, the business. The business creates the product/service.[/QUOTE]

I agree that they are a necessary evil.....but like .gov they in fact do nothing but handle paperwork....that's IT....

:beer:

 

[Jsup]

I agree that they are a necessary evil.....but like .gov they in fact do nothing but handle paperwork....that's IT....

:beer:

Difference

The bank puts money into things to produce something.

The government takes money out of things, to further their own power.

Yes, there's no physical work required in either, however, two very different animals.

 

[big2bird]

Management, the unions, caused the problem let them burn.

Sounds like Nero to me.. Got your fiddle?:search:

So? The union's extortion and management bad decisions does not translate to a financial burden to me and my kids, and probably their kids.

I was not a party to the deals, I had no say in the deal, therefore, I should not pay for it.

The economy will survive, the country will survive, and as far as I'm concerned be better off for it.

It's a LOAN, not a grant. It IS in the interest of NATIONAL SECURITY. Remember who made the war machine during WWII? GM and Ford. Who is going to make the tanks and Jeeps? Kea?

 

[JPhil]

I'll just toss this in for fun:

How's this for a typical conspiracy dream-vision from me--

The Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse have harnessed their horses into a team pulling a coach. The coachman spurring them on ever faster and faster through the rainy, foggy night is a murky figure named 'Global Monetary/Financial Network', and sitting next to him riding shotgun is his sidekick, 'Politics'. It is Politics job to dispatch any pesky problems which may interfere with the progress of the coach, leaving the coachman free to assure the quickest possible arrival of the coach to its destination in the promised land of Profit. He takes his directions from the impeccably attired passengers inside the coach, who in warmth and flickering lamplight are reclining on silk cushions, sipping fine wine from crystal glasses, deeply engrossed in quiet discussions occasionally interuppted by laughter and toasts. On the side of the coach in golden script is inscribed, "Corporate Illuminati".
As the coach draws nearer its destination, the way becomes smoother, the pace quicker. The road surface now is paved with an ever-increasing number of peasant lives being thrown under the wheels to fill the chuckholes and smoothe out the washboards, and the four horses are excited, well fed and strong from the excellent fodder 'Crumbling Economy'.
If you turn off the TV in your head, turn off the noise & flickering colors for while, let your brain grow accustomed to the stillness & silence around you, if you listen--you can hear the cracking of the whip, the hoofbeats rapidly approaching. They're passing through your town as we speak. Be careful, for one can never know the exact path the coach will take. If you are not nimble enough you will be trampled under, left bleeding and broken in its wake. If you are quick you may be able to jump aside and only be grazed by the wheels, left crouching by the roadside, cold, wet and mudsplattered. If you are smart enough, and fortunate, you may find a tree or boulder to hide behind for some bit of protection from the spray and flying mud. If you are wise, wily and brave, perhaps the dim light of the coachlamps will shine on you for a moment and you may be blessed with a passing glance from one of the masters inside as coach thunders past, leaving you unscathed to turn, pull your coat tighter around you and continue your journey through this life.

Good luck.

 

[mrvette]

Management, the unions, caused the problem let them burn.

Sounds like Nero to me.. Got your fiddle?:search:

So? The union's extortion and management bad decisions does not translate to a financial burden to me and my kids, and probably their kids.

I was not a party to the deals, I had no say in the deal, therefore, I should not pay for it.

The economy will survive, the country will survive, and as far as I'm concerned be better off for it.

It's a LOAN, not a grant. It IS in the interest of NATIONAL SECURITY. Remember who made the war machine during WWII? GM and Ford. Who is going to make the tanks and Jeeps? Kea?

When the .gov becomes or supports the banks, they charge interest and collect taxes to basically the same entity.....I smell a very large rotten octopus in the sunlight, not any mear fish.....

and the need for men/boots on the ground, in modern warfare, I fail to see the need,

war is an extension of diplomacy.....so if we can't affect a 'diplomatic' choice at the end of a spear, I fail to see why we need fists.....

:shocking:

 

[Jsup]

It's a LOAN, not a grant. It IS in the interest of NATIONAL SECURITY. Remember who made the war machine during WWII? GM and Ford. Who is going to make the tanks and Jeeps? Kea?

It's a loan that will never be paid back

And that is the beauty of capitalism. Someone will step in and make that stuff, without bailing out GM, Ford, Chrysler.

The world doesn't end if these three go down.

Have faith in capitalism. It works.

 

[Jsup]

I'll just toss this in for fun:

How's this for a typical conspiracy dream-vision from me--

The Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse have harnessed their horses into a team pulling a coach. The coachman spurring them on ever faster and faster through the rainy, foggy night is a murky figure named 'Global Monetary/Financial Network', and sitting next to him riding shotgun is his sidekick, 'Politics'. It is Politics job to dispatch any pesky problems which may interfere with the progress of the coach, leaving the coachman free to assure the quickest possible arrival of the coach to its destination in the promised land of Profit. He takes his directions from the impeccably attired passengers inside the coach, who in warmth and flickering lamplight are reclining on silk cushions, sipping fine wine from crystal glasses, deeply engrossed in quiet discussions occasionally interuppted by laughter and toasts. On the side of the coach in golden script is inscribed, "Corporate Illuminati".
As the coach draws nearer its destination, the way becomes smoother, the pace quicker. The road surface now is paved with an ever-increasing number of peasant lives being thrown under the wheels to fill the chuckholes and smoothe out the washboards, and the four horses are excited, well fed and strong from the excellent fodder 'Crumbling Economy'.
If you turn off the TV in your head, turn off the noise & flickering colors for while, let your brain grow accustomed to the stillness & silence around you, if you listen--you can hear the cracking of the whip, the hoofbeats rapidly approaching. They're passing through your town as we speak. Be careful, for one can never know the exact path the coach will take. If you are not nimble enough you will be trampled under, left bleeding and broken in its wake. If you are quick you may be able to jump aside and only be grazed by the wheels, left crouching by the roadside, cold, wet and mudsplattered. If you are smart enough, and fortunate, you may find a tree or boulder to hide behind for some bit of protection from the spray and flying mud. If you are wise, wily and brave, perhaps the dim light of the coachlamps will shine on you for a moment and you may be blessed with a passing glance from one of the masters inside as coach thunders past, leaving you unscathed to turn, pull your coat tighter around you and continue your journey through this life.

Good luck.

That's a pretty dim view of capitalism.

 

[JPhil]

Depends on which side of the window you are on

 

[Jsup]

Depends on which side of the window you are on

Hmm...explain that.

As far as I can see, there is no window.