mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
Isn't that the heater line?? I have a valve turning the heater flow off on both sides now....and never noticed anything about temps, even with the single valve in one side of the line and the L98 injection...
How much cooling does engine oil do?
- Thread starter 496BBC
- Start date
Isn't that the heater line?? I have a valve turning the heater flow off on both sides now....and never noticed anything about temps, even with the single valve in one side of the line and the L98 injection...
saudivette
Clueless In Sandland
Sorry for the hijack Neal, but have you already removed the tow hook or do the 77's not have them?
Neal
Bee Jay
Well-known member
I've been trying to increase the cooling capacity of my car for a while now, when cruising on the hwy my temps are around 220* to 230* at around 3000rpm.
Neal
I thought the reason for doing all of this was because you were overheating. Now you say it hasn't overheated since putting the additional two water radiators in the bypass leg. I'm confused. What are we fixing. Of course I'm the biggest believern in, "if it ain't broke, fix it till it is broke".
Bee Jay
496BBC
Well-known member
Sorry for the hijack Neal, but have you already removed the tow hook or do the 77's not have them?
Neal
What tow hook? I didn't know any vette came with a tow hook.
Neal
496BBC
Well-known member
I've been trying to increase the cooling capacity of my car for a while now, when cruising on the hwy my temps are around 220* to 230* at around 3000rpm.
Neal
I thought the reason for doing all of this was because you were overheating. Now you say it hasn't overheated since putting the additional two water radiators in the bypass leg. I'm confused. What are we fixing. Of course I'm the biggest believern in, "if it ain't broke, fix it till it is broke".
Bee Jay
My car has never overheated, it would run at 230* at hwy speed. Some say thats not to hot but I say it is. I've had this issue since I installed the BB. My goal was to improve the cooling system on my car to the point were I have excess capacity. The oil cooler and fans appear to have given me more capacity. So when you replyed to my post that you had gained some added capacity and lossed some weight I figured if this isn't to hard to do and while I'm at it I might as well give it a try to.
Neal
Bee Jay
Well-known member
I've been trying to increase the cooling capacity of my car for a while now, when cruising on the hwy my temps are around 220* to 230* at around 3000rpm.
Neal
I thought the reason for doing all of this was because you were overheating. Now you say it hasn't overheated since putting the additional two water radiators in the bypass leg. I'm confused. What are we fixing. Of course I'm the biggest believern in, "if it ain't broke, fix it till it is broke".
Bee Jay
My car has never overheated, it would run at 230* at hwy speed. Some say thats not to hot but I say it is. I've had this issue since I installed the BB. My goal was to improve the cooling system on my car to the point were I have excess capacity. The oil cooler and fans appear to have given me more capacity. So when you replyed to my post that you had gained some added capacity and lossed some weight I figured if this isn't to hard to do and while I'm at it I might as well give it a try to.
Neal
230 degrees at highway speeds is overheating to me. Like I said, hopefully this helps. My temp was from 195 to 210 degrees and now is hardly ever over 180 degrees. My oil temp, with oil cooler up front, hovers around 150 to 160 degrees and only goes up to 180 degrees.
Bee Jay
496BBC
Well-known member
I've been trying to increase the cooling capacity of my car for a while now, when cruising on the hwy my temps are around 220* to 230* at around 3000rpm.
Neal
I thought the reason for doing all of this was because you were overheating. Now you say it hasn't overheated since putting the additional two water radiators in the bypass leg. I'm confused. What are we fixing. Of course I'm the biggest believern in, "if it ain't broke, fix it till it is broke".
Bee Jay
My car has never overheated, it would run at 230* at hwy speed. Some say thats not to hot but I say it is. I've had this issue since I installed the BB. My goal was to improve the cooling system on my car to the point were I have excess capacity. The oil cooler and fans appear to have given me more capacity. So when you replyed to my post that you had gained some added capacity and lossed some weight I figured if this isn't to hard to do and while I'm at it I might as well give it a try to.
Neal
230 degrees at highway speeds is overheating to me. Like I said, hopefully this helps. My temp was from 195 to 210 degrees and now is hardly ever over 180 degrees. My oil temp, with oil cooler up front, hovers around 150 to 160 degrees and only goes up to 180 degrees.
Bee Jay
I'm hoping to get mine to run at the temps yours does. I've gotten allot of ideas here, now I just have to find the time to try them. With the oil cooler and the mod to the front of the car I will likely have it under control.
Neal
Bee Jay
Well-known member
With 496 cubic inches of big block, I bet your engine compartment is packed from gill to gill. I plan to vent my hood. Maybe you should include that in your plans before you paint. Can those two mini-radiators be converted to oil and transmission coolers. Are you running an Auto? Removing the trans fluid flow from my radiator to an external cooler helped my water temps too.
Bee Jay
Bee Jay
Bee Jay
Well-known member
I just thought of something else. Who did your 496? They didn't fill the bottom of your block with concrete did they?
Bee Jay
Bee Jay
496BBC
Well-known member
I actually purchased some small vents for the hood but decided to wait and try the other fixes first.
The coolers are actually heater cores from a chevy truck, don't think they would hold up to that kind of service.
I mounted my trans cooler under the passengers seat with its own T-stat and fan.
Neal
496BBC
Well-known member
A shop here in town did the motor, he raced boats with us a while back.
The block is not filled with block filler.
Neal
496BBC
Well-known member
Progress on the vette has been slow the last few days, spending some time with the family.
Here is were I'm at,
I've spent some time building the new core support and installing it along with cleaning and painting some parts that have been needing it for a while.
I cut the hole in the front bumper were the plate goes and put a little paint there to.
Neal
Here is were I'm at,
I've spent some time building the new core support and installing it along with cleaning and painting some parts that have been needing it for a while.
I cut the hole in the front bumper were the plate goes and put a little paint there to.
Neal
Bee Jay
Well-known member
Good for you Neal, spend time with the familiy. The Vette progress looks good too. Nice to be able to paint pieces before putting them back. I think your overheating problems will be gone.
Bee Jay
Bee Jay
Red
Well-known member
This is a very interesting thread to me since my 79 350 CU and TH350 trans runs on the highway at 230*. I added a passive trans cooler, without a fan, under the radiator support. It has done little to cool the engine, but trying to save the trans. BeeJay has done a super job and deserved thanks for sharing the information.
After following this thread awhile I'm confused, as there are too many variables. Maybe I'm missing something, but is the front crossmember/ram completely eliminated or modified and must the bumper be removed? There is mention of brackets made to add support after the tank/ram is removed, but I don't see a picture of any brackets and can they support the front end as well as the plate? Norval showed his Swiss Cheese parts, but I'm not that ambitious and some of his holes look punched and I don't have that machine.
Getting back to my primairy goal of dropping operating temps of 230* to 190* and Losing weight without compromising structural integrity is a plus. My car is primairly a bracket racer, but never on a trailer; so it must be streatable. I am considering swapping my copper four core radiator for a two core aluminum unit to lower temps and shed weight. I found this thread to aluminum radiators interesting. http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131059
I am looking closely at this particular unit to promote better cooling for my 79. http://www.radiatorexpress.com/prod...ow+Replacement&part_id=218033&aaia_id=1041118 If the link doesn't go directly to a 79 Corvette radiator, do a search on the radiator experss site.
Replacing my radiator would go well with modifying the front ram/tank. Right now I'm unsure of any consequences of removing the ram/tank and plate. Norval suggests not to do this, but another suggests replacing it with brackets that are not pictured. I don't need to start painting the car, just a simple way I can modify the car to get better cooling conditions without pulling my rubber bumper. BeeJay's black vent looks Great, but what lies underneith? Does your radiator have a seperate trans cooleror oil cooler? I want to use a rad with a tank for trans cooling and an additional trans cooler. Please keep me straight on removing or not removing the ram/tank and the requisite brackets. Thanks!
After following this thread awhile I'm confused, as there are too many variables. Maybe I'm missing something, but is the front crossmember/ram completely eliminated or modified and must the bumper be removed? There is mention of brackets made to add support after the tank/ram is removed, but I don't see a picture of any brackets and can they support the front end as well as the plate? Norval showed his Swiss Cheese parts, but I'm not that ambitious and some of his holes look punched and I don't have that machine.
Getting back to my primairy goal of dropping operating temps of 230* to 190* and Losing weight without compromising structural integrity is a plus. My car is primairly a bracket racer, but never on a trailer; so it must be streatable. I am considering swapping my copper four core radiator for a two core aluminum unit to lower temps and shed weight. I found this thread to aluminum radiators interesting. http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131059
I am looking closely at this particular unit to promote better cooling for my 79. http://www.radiatorexpress.com/prod...ow+Replacement&part_id=218033&aaia_id=1041118 If the link doesn't go directly to a 79 Corvette radiator, do a search on the radiator experss site.
Replacing my radiator would go well with modifying the front ram/tank. Right now I'm unsure of any consequences of removing the ram/tank and plate. Norval suggests not to do this, but another suggests replacing it with brackets that are not pictured. I don't need to start painting the car, just a simple way I can modify the car to get better cooling conditions without pulling my rubber bumper. BeeJay's black vent looks Great, but what lies underneith? Does your radiator have a seperate trans cooleror oil cooler? I want to use a rad with a tank for trans cooling and an additional trans cooler. Please keep me straight on removing or not removing the ram/tank and the requisite brackets. Thanks!
496BBC
Well-known member
The first two pics are of the new bracket, the first pic is the drivers side and the second pic is the pass side, Its the shiny black piece. I got in somewhat of a hurry and didn't take any pics of it while I was building it.
ON my car the front bar behind the bumper didn't support anything, it was not attached to the bumper. Other than the outer supports that attached in the very corners of the nose which I left in place.
Bee Jay removed his vacuum reservoir without removing the bumper but the crossmember can only be removed with the bumper off. I had taken the bumper off my car so I can only go off of what Bee Jay says about getting the reservoir off.
I can take more pics of the bracket if needed
Hope this helps,
I don't have much time this morning for a detailed response and maybe Bee Jay will chime in to, he did a detailed write up on his mods.
I'll check back this afternoon.
Neal
Red
Well-known member
Thanks for the reply 496! The fresh painted piece inside your frame horn/grille supports and under radiator support is your new support bracket?
If yes, what is it made of and what is it bolted to, the frame?
If the ram/tank can't be removed without removing the front bumper cover, how about I use a sazall to cut the plate and brackets first?
After the tank/reservoir is removed, do you use an aftermarket vacuum tank to operate vacuum systems?
How about that plastic waffle behind the bumper, it must be retained to keep shape of the rubber bumper, correct?
My 79 AIM upc 14A page 4 makes the front 'Bumper Cushion Assembly' appear to be all supported by the vacuum tank/ram. Do I understand the tank and everything forward of it can be removed without consequence; as long as the support bracket is made?
I'm so much wanting to do this, but don't need to create another body off experience, know what I mean? Thanks for helping keep me on track!
If I can remove all the parts with my rubber bumper on, the license hole in the bumper can be cut with a cut-off wheel, right?
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496BBC
Well-known member
Bee Jay
Well-known member
This is what you want to get rid of first.
It is your battering ram/air tank for the pop up headlights and it weighs 45lbs and blocks air flow to your radiator.
First you need to get a vacuum line "t". There is a vacuum line from your intake to your reservoir, then there are two lines from your reservoir to you pop up actuators. Insert the "t" in place of the tank. It will take a few seconds for your headlights to come up, but it is no big deal. Then your ready to remove that heavy mofo. Yes, it can be removed without removing the front bumper. I did it. You will have to drill two holes to get to two of the bolts.
Once you get the battering ram/air reservoir out, the nose will droop slightly because it is also a bracket for some of the bumper support. I simply had the brackets cut off, and installed it back in place. The front end of my car doesn't know that the tank is gone because the tank brackets are still there. I need to take a picture to show you. But look closely in the picture above, the brackets have blue zip ties on them. If you cut those off of the tank, you can reuse them to hold the front end together.
Now, to modify your front end to flow cool air where the license plate is now, you will have to remove your front bumper. "There is about 25lbs of crap behind your bumper's license plate holder. Check out this thread:
http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4274
Bee Jay
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Red
Well-known member
Thanks for the replies to both 496BBC and BeeJay!
My primary goal at this point is strictly cooling my engine. I won't pull the front bumper because my paint is decent and I don't have the time or resources to be redoing any damage. Reducing weight is a secondary concern. If after dropping the crossmember I can remove or trim the waffle I'd do it to open the bumper and improve air flow. Trimming the license area seems like a prudent thing to do in light of the heat issues with most C-3 models. I will keep you posted on my effort and result when it gets done. My electric and mechanical fan will be retained in the shroud. Thanks for the detailed answers to my questions.
My primary goal at this point is strictly cooling my engine. I won't pull the front bumper because my paint is decent and I don't have the time or resources to be redoing any damage. Reducing weight is a secondary concern. If after dropping the crossmember I can remove or trim the waffle I'd do it to open the bumper and improve air flow. Trimming the license area seems like a prudent thing to do in light of the heat issues with most C-3 models. I will keep you posted on my effort and result when it gets done. My electric and mechanical fan will be retained in the shroud. Thanks for the detailed answers to my questions.
Bullshark
Well-known member
Ok, here is a EE's take at addressing the question. Maybe there is a thermodynamics engineer out there that can add some credibility.
Oil has roughly 1/3 the heat capacity of water, which means it isn't a very effective coolant. The flow rate of the oil to the point of heat transfer is low in comparison to that of the water based engine cooling system. The delta T of the oil and its heat transfer points is small. ( i.e. engine block, oil pan, etc.) So, for those applications where there is no oil cooler radiator, the effect of oil as an engine coolant is very small in comparison to the primary water cooling system. Which means that you can get much better effect improving your primary cooling system. For those very high demand systems that need to eek out every degree, the oil coolers can help. I would be interested in hearing a more expert and detailed explanation if there is anyone out there who has a better analysis.
I would think the main reason for cooling the oil is to keep the lubrication qualities optimum?????
Bullshark
Oil has roughly 1/3 the heat capacity of water, which means it isn't a very effective coolant. The flow rate of the oil to the point of heat transfer is low in comparison to that of the water based engine cooling system. The delta T of the oil and its heat transfer points is small. ( i.e. engine block, oil pan, etc.) So, for those applications where there is no oil cooler radiator, the effect of oil as an engine coolant is very small in comparison to the primary water cooling system. Which means that you can get much better effect improving your primary cooling system. For those very high demand systems that need to eek out every degree, the oil coolers can help. I would be interested in hearing a more expert and detailed explanation if there is anyone out there who has a better analysis.
I would think the main reason for cooling the oil is to keep the lubrication qualities optimum?????
Bullshark
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