Plastic Fantastic 2

[SuperBuickGuy]

With the extra block, you open up the option of completing the new engine and controls build on the side while keeping the car 100% available for gaining more experience on the track with the car and getting everything dialed in like you want. Then later you can swap in the new engine and have a smaller list of variables to iron out. It is definitely an opportunity worth consideration. On the other hand, do you think you can get it all ready for May? I know it's still a little while off, but the way the parts supply chain is going these days, a small part can sideline everything while you are trying to get the electronics dialed in.

I'm 99% sure I'm going to follow this. As I mentioned before, the biggest problem right now is the meatsack between the seat and steering wheel. I'm not thrilled with the oil pressure issue and replacing the lifters might solve that - however getting some seat time is going to make me faster. Plus there are a couple other things which are coming that would really make the 'new motor' option a lot more attractive.

Of course, the downside of another motor is it will have more power and I'm already at max torque for the TKX... but with every challenge, was telling Paul about exceeding recommended torque with the 'new' build and his response was "Oh, so the TKX will be available?" .... lol.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

drove the Corvette today - was acting like it had a vacuum leak..
it did

this stupid throttle cable holder... it had moved back and forth - thus loosening the bolt on the back corner of the efi. Add to all of this that it removed about 10% of throttle opening... stupid little things. Ah well, temporaried again, but looking for a solution. I had a different throttle cable holder before but it doesn't fit on the Sniper...

 

[phantomjock]

Mechanical Problem - I bet that is something you'll work out!
I'm thinking - well have purchased so getting ready - to follow Pappy's lead. Electronic Throttle Control.
Not a cheap option. Have a BMW actuator and a GM (AFAIR) throttle. Now need to work the electronic control module.

I'll follow your solution closely (as always).

Cheers - J im

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Mechanical Problem - I bet that is something you'll work out!
I'm thinking - well have purchased so getting ready - to follow Pappy's lead. Electronic Throttle Control.
Not a cheap option. Have a BMW actuator and a GM (AFAIR) throttle. Now need to work the electronic control module.

I'll follow your solution closely (as always).

Cheers - J im

I have the solution for this

and I'm going to do a weird thing and follow advice - wait for the offseason to make the change.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here... this guy... wow

 

[BBShark]

Spent the day (in 8 minute sessions) looking at this guy's V8 in a Corvair build video. Really nice fabrication/engineering.

 

[Red77]

I've enjoyed watching his videos through lunch this week. Quite a build he's got going there, thanks for tipping us that way. He's got some pretty creative solutions in his build.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I've enjoyed watching his videos through lunch this week. Quite a build he's got going there, thanks for tipping us that way. He's got some pretty creative solutions in his build.

everything he does is top class, thus the recommendation. He's almost convinced me to go Deustch with all my connectors. I struggle to get good crimps with Delphi

 

[Red77]

These are some of the choices in have to make as I finally dig into rewiring. I read a few articles on rewiring that used the Deustch connectors years back and they look like really high quality parts. The Delphi seem to be the most common, but the Deustch are what you often find on machine tools and other high end equipment. I've been around them, but have not had the opportunity to build any yet, usually only swapping valves and sensors. They might be a good fit for your new FI system.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

today's announcement - which I'll follow up in 3 or so months when it all comes to pass

I bought PF3. A 68 C3 - or rather, a C3 tub and doors. I'm going to build a frame which copies PF2, then flare it like before. Not sure whether it will be BB powered or not - the 'next' BB I'm building will likely land in PF2.... I might see about building something like what mfain built for his 56...

 

[mfain]

today's announcement - which I'll follow up in 3 or so months when it all comes to pass

I bought PF3. A 68 C3 - or rather, a C3 tub and doors. I'm going to build a frame which copies PF2, then flare it like before. Not sure whether it will be BB powered or not - the 'next' BB I'm building will likely land in PF2.... I might see about building something like what mfain built for his 56...

A couple of thoughts. Think light weight from the start. It is easier to assess every part during initial construction than it is to go back and mod things to reduce weight later. If you can reduce the weight of every part by even 10%, and eliminate things that you don't need to go fast, you wouldn't believe how light a car can get. Light is fast and also easier on parts and consumables. Try to get as much weight as low and far aft as you can - a slight rear weight bias gives you a lot better handling options. Big tires, but avoid offsets that hinder proper suspension geometry like not being able to achieve minimal scrub radius. Build in clearance for full tire motion at full compression. Plan for aero - include strong, accessible places to bolt things like wings and splitters, and try to keep things from hanging down under the car that would keep you from having a clean, flat belly pan that does wonders for reducing aero drag. Decide if it is going to be a track car or dual purpose - that will make a big difference in construction. I have taken one car from "driver" to full-on track car and that is the hardest way imaginable to get there. Looking forward to seeing progress.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

A couple of thoughts. Think light weight from the start. It is easier to assess every part during initial construction than it is to go back and mod things to reduce weight later. If you can reduce the weight of every part by even 10%, and eliminate things that you don't need to go fast, you wouldn't believe how light a car can get. Light is fast and also easier on parts and consumables. Try to get as much weight as low and far aft as you can - a slight rear weight bias gives you a lot better handling options. Big tires, but avoid offsets that hinder proper suspension geometry like not being able to achieve minimal scrub radius. Build in clearance for full tire motion at full compression. Plan for aero - include strong, accessible places to bolt things like wings and splitters, and try to keep things from hanging down under the car that would keep you from having a clean, flat belly pan that does wonders for reducing aero drag. Decide if it is going to be a track car or dual purpose - that will make a big difference in construction. I have taken one car from "driver" to full-on track car and that is the hardest way imaginable to get there. Looking forward to seeing progress.

I fully, fully, fully agree.

I'll be spending a lot of money on Dynamic Corvette CF parts. They even make doors out of carbon fiber

that said, my goal is compete in the outlaw class - because there's no chance this car will weigh anywhere near the 3200 lb minimum.

Which may mean I'm building a car for which no class exists - but with that said, Wilwood Corvette Challenge is of interest to me, and also speed trials.

Wonder how much a titanium frame would cost..... I'm serious about the CF stuff, but how far I take this? I don't know. I'm at the point where I really want to start enjoying what I build... so PF2 isn't for sale anytime soon... nor is the FJ40... or the Blazer... or the 50 Sedanette... lordy I have a lot of projects.

That said, the wagon and Spider may find new homes to the right buyer.

I also have this "wanna build" a COE motorhome from my current motorhome.
We will see.... at this point, getting the shell here and starting the titling process are first steps.

_______
and in that vein. What I've learned from this car.
1) BBC are faster then LS motors
2) BBC motors weigh 50 lbs more dressed then an LS.
3) that the Camaro suspension has more aftermarket and that I can buy stronger parts
4) I'm going to take full advantage that I can more the firewall and step in the floor - while I'm not large compared to many of my friends - I'm not small at 6-1 and 220 lbs....

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

saving this for later. I blew yet another rack seal - I'm putting a pressure reducer in the pump but that will affect my hydroboost brakes... which leads me to consider simply making the rack manual

[video=youtube;sJNZ3xgjaf4]

ory[/video]

 

[phantomjock]

Its not "just weight," 10 pounds --> 1 HP, but HP too.

BMW Electric Brake pump? I recall pappy has. Now, I have too.
5-8 hp required to drive a typical Type II pump at 5,000-rpm shaft speed loaded at 700 psi - more pressure with Hydroboost? Then, more HP consumed.
If you can deal with amp loss (weight in battery bank - then pull the core on the Alternator. Another 5-8HP.

On my new project [yes and overdue an update on the vette too], I'm doing some "livability" mods on a Chevy LS powered ClassB. It is our new tow vehicle.
Just now I'm going electric radiator fans and eliminating the mechanical. Can be 5-8HP cost for the electric fans - but not the 20-40 HP costs from the mechanical fan/clutch.
Full Disclosure - up to 30 Amps! Could be a problem balancing use vs Alternator, etc..

But, a YT Dyno-test shows any savings are all along the RPM range - not just top end.

More out there...
YMMV - but it is the Outlaw Division.

Cheers - Jim

 

[rtj]

Wonder how much a titanium frame would cost..... I'm serious about the CF stuff, but how far I take this? I don't know. I'm at the point where I really want to start enjoying what I build... so PF2 isn't for sale anytime soon... nor is the FJ40... or the Blazer... or the 50 Sedanette... lordy I have a lot of projects.

Fabrication would be painful with Ti. But, a full chrome moly tube frame with complete cage would be stiff, light, and economical.

Interesting that you say the big block beats LS. I’m assuming it is the raw torque. I keep watching prices on alum big blocks skyrocket, it is kind of difficult to watch.

So now that you’ve run the wing and the spoiler, how do they compare?

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Fabrication would be painful with Ti. But, a full chrome moly tube frame with complete cage would be stiff, light, and economical.

Interesting that you say the big block beats LS. I’m assuming it is the raw torque. I keep watching prices on alum big blocks skyrocket, it is kind of difficult to watch.

So now that you’ve run the wing and the spoiler, how do they compare?

BBC - NA. LS is a fantastic platform for turbos, but I've been watching a really nice 70 Chevelle that has all the protouring mods at Optima. He's not doing well because he either is in boost lag or on boost and either breaking something or out of control.

Spoilers... I think it helps on the track, but is really of marginal benefit on autocross.
Spoilers part 2 - I think Optima likes spoilers because it says 'racecar' In their challenge Compare Chad Ryker's 67 Camaro which has all the aero with Ryan Breezy's 69 Camaro that doesn't but rather has traction control and ABS. Ryan is faster this year, can't wait to see them head to head but so far.... I don't see aero being much of anything... I know, I know heresy.

 

[Red77]

I'll second the chrome moly. I have a cousin that builds drag cars and you can make it super strong AND light where mild steel just can't compete. He built a full tube chassis Vega for one of his customers back in the 90s when I was helping around the shop and it was super light compared to the mild steel ones he had built before. Smaller tubing can do the same job when it is a higher strength material. It's a little more difficult to weld than mild steel, but MUCH easier than titanium.

 

[69427]

Its not "just weight," 10 pounds --> 1 HP, but HP too.

BMW Electric Brake pump? I recall pappy has. Now, I have too.
5-8 hp required to drive a typical Type II pump at 5,000-rpm shaft speed loaded at 700 psi - more pressure with Hydroboost? Then, more HP consumed.
If you can deal with amp loss (weight in battery bank - then pull the core on the Alternator. Another 5-8HP.

On my new project [yes and overdue an update on the vette too], I'm doing some "livability" mods on a Chevy LS powered ClassB. It is our new tow vehicle.
Just now I'm going electric radiator fans and eliminating the mechanical. Can be 5-8HP cost for the electric fans - but not the 20-40 HP costs from the mechanical fan/clutch.
Full Disclosure - up to 30 Amps! Could be a problem balancing use vs Alternator, etc..

But, a YT Dyno-test shows any savings are all along the RPM range - not just top end.

More out there...
YMMV - but it is the Outlaw Division.

Cheers - Jim

My perspective on all these YT fan videos: Whether the fan is on an engine dyno or a chassis dyno, I don't see that the results are applicable to much more than deciding which fan to use on a stationary engine driving an irrigation pump out on a desert crop field. There's absolutely no comparisons to airflow or where the horsepower is going.

You're an aviation guy. Let me just pose a scenario. Say you're outside the hangar some afternoon, polishing your Mustang. Some salesman stops by and says he has a prop he'd like to sell you. Promises it will free up at least a thousand horsepower at 2500 RPM on your Merlin. Curiosity, but a skeptical mind, makes you say, okay show me what you got. The salesman reaches into the back of his Camry and pulls out a prop that looks like it's standard equipment on a Piper Cub. Without bothering to put the engine on a dyno you realize that yes, you would have to agree with the salesman that his prop would free up some horsepower at 2500 RPM. But so what. Even though your four blade prop was "eating" up 2000 horsepower at 2500 RPM, you were getting something for that horsepower expenditure, namely speed and acceleration of the aircraft. And that speed and acceleration occurs because the prop is contacting air mass, and accelerating it rearward. (I know you know all this. Just humor me here.) The act of accelerating air rearward causes an equal reaction forward, pulling/thrusting the airplane in the direction you want to go.

A car fan is no different. It cools by grabbing and accelerating air mass rearward. This "eats" up horsepower, but it also provides thrust on the front of the engine. This horsepower drain will obviously vary with RPM and forward velocity, as the air coming through the radiator will vary with vehicle speed. While horsepower drain is too frequently complained about, like in these videos, horsepower consumption is not always a bad thing, evidenced by how much fun it is when a big prop consumes the power a Merlin engine makes.

My personal philosophy is to find the lightest fan setup that will cool my engine. Out on the track an electric fan is just ballast weight sitting at the worst place on a sports car, in front of the front axle. A flex fan, while despised by many, is incredibly light, and its horsepower consumption on the straights is minimal, and the ratio of productive/non-productive horsepower consumption is something no internet/YT racer will tackle or discuss.

Just my opinion and philosophy.

 

[69427]

A couple of thoughts. Think light weight from the start. It is easier to assess every part during initial construction than it is to go back and mod things to reduce weight later. If you can reduce the weight of every part by even 10%, and eliminate things that you don't need to go fast, you wouldn't believe how light a car can get. Light is fast and also easier on parts and consumables. Try to get as much weight as low and far aft as you can - a slight rear weight bias gives you a lot better handling options. Big tires, but avoid offsets that hinder proper suspension geometry like not being able to achieve minimal scrub radius. Build in clearance for full tire motion at full compression. Plan for aero - include strong, accessible places to bolt things like wings and splitters, and try to keep things from hanging down under the car that would keep you from having a clean, flat belly pan that does wonders for reducing aero drag. Decide if it is going to be a track car or dual purpose - that will make a big difference in construction. I have taken one car from "driver" to full-on track car and that is the hardest way imaginable to get there. Looking forward to seeing progress.

I agree on the focus on light weight. Absolutely. The advantages are many. I'm at 2695# (with a quarter tank of fuel and full factory interior) My engine is a fuel sipper, but the light weight gives me a respectable power to weight ratio.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I agree on the focus on light weight. Absolutely. The advantages are many. I'm at 2695# (with a quarter tank of fuel and full factory interior) My engine is a fuel sipper, but the light weight gives me a respectable power to weight ratio.

I wonder at how light I can get... I support the myth of factory appearing - so a tube frame ... I don't know, I'm not yet a fan (but my mind could easily change)