UAW wages to blame?

[JPhil]

Some Unions may have become perverted--not all but some. Most are still true to their purpose which is to protect & stand up for the human rights of 'labor' against the desires of 'management' for the highest monetary profit whatever the cost to society. If you don't think unions ever did anything for you, you are sadly mistaken, whether or not you are a union member.

(The Corporation is a direct result of 'management's' using legal mumbo-jumbo to relieve themselves of any responsibility to the people upon whom they depend for both labor & consumption. The Corporation's legal definition states it must do whatever is necessary to optimize profit for itself while at the same time absolving the actual humans who have formed the Corporation from any responsibility for anything. Until around 50 years ago, Corporations were not all that common, but since then they have grown like kudzu in Georgia.)

The Ludlow Massacre took place just a few miles from here, where I grew up. Not many people are alive today who remember it, but when I was growing up there were still many who did. To this day it is still a sore subject in this area.


http://www.answers.com/topic/ludlow-massacre

The Union lost this particular battle, but because of the public outcry things began to change in the labor/management struggle. (The UAW strike of 1936 could not have happened if not for Ludlow. For whatever that is worth, whatever the UAW is doing today--good or bad--, we all owe a great deal of our current prosperity to that strike in 1936.)

If it were not for the Unions, very very few of you would be living "The American Dream" today. Instead you be but an indentured servant, a peasant working 10 hours a day 6 days a week to spend your company scrip at the company store just to stay alive.

Yes some unions are like WWF wrestlers on steroids and they are killing themselves as well as the people they profess to protect. But most are just quietly supporting ALL workers rights to a fair & just existance.

And just to reinforce what you all already think of me, I'll sign off with a quote from a famous man & see if any of you can identify what it says, who said it & why.

"HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE"

John

PS: No, actually I am not a member of any union

 

[big2bird]

You missed my point...lol. I was implying that the big 3 can't make it, but the foreign auto companies located in the USA can. The difference....no unions.

IF you believe that to be THE only difference, then you are misinformed.:thumbs:

Certainly not the only difference, but a major one, IMO. Granted, it costs less to run a plant in Georgia than Michigan, but who gets the blame there?. The taxes, poor schools, high crime rate in Detroit make it an unattractive location for a new auto plant. So the new plants go to the states with low operating costs and, of course, "right to work" non-union states. The big 3 should take notes.

Blame? Big industry made fortunes in Detroit, polluted it, abused it, then left it to rot. GM, a slow learner, opened Saturn to compete. Too little, too late.
I agree they need to respond faster, but that P/L line alwaays gets in the way. Somewhere, foresight by American companies has been lost.
BTW, do we even make any cars in Detroit anymore?

 

[big2bird]

"Hasta la victoria siempre."
Struggle till victory always-Che Guevera
Cuban revolution.

 

[big2bird]

You know, we have a program here called Huell Howser. he interviewed some American workers in france.
They have 6 weeks paid vacation, less than 40 hr workweek, get PAID maternity leave for 6-12 months. Are allowed to have wine/beer at lunch. Have all medical and even childcare paid by the govt. Have a higher standard of living than here, and work for companies like General Electric and others, which STILL makes high profit there. Why? Because they can. Companies there actually fear a revolt by the people. AND, they tolerate it because they have to, AND still do WELL. :thumbs:
HERE, companies walk all over the working stiff. WHY? Because they can.:smash:

 

[big2bird]

Thanks for listening:
Next up:
Union firefighters in NY. Lets take their pension and go non union. Fuck em.:smash: Taxes are too high.
Same for NY cops. Fuck em.:smash:
Unions in airlines. I bet we can get a pilot for $20 an hour. Feel safe?
Let's make them Boeing airliners in Mexico/Puerto Rico. It will be fine. They will be safe.:bomb:
Let's all make minimum wage. I'll buy two new cars with that.:surrender:

 

[JPhil]

Financial Armageddon
The Pendulum Is Set to Swing Back in Favor of Labor

Posted: 07 Dec 2008 07:06 PM CST

The influence of organized labor has been waning for years. Among the reasons: the growth of "offshoring," which has thinned the ranks of traditionally heavily-unionized domestic manufacturing industries; a sustained period of economic expansion (up until recently, at least), which convinced many workers that they did not need union backing to make their way up the economic ladder; and, a lack of political support in the wake of the secular shift to the right following Reagan's election as President in 1980.

However, several developments suggest the pendulum is set to swing the other way.

First is the fact that a crashing economy, widespread and growing resentment over perceived "fat cat" bailouts, and Democratic control of the executive and legislative branches will almost certainly shift the moral high ground and balance of power away from financiers and senior corporate executives to those who are seen as having lost out -- the workers.

In addition, energy, security, and political concerns appear to be driving nascent efforts to have more goods produced locally instead of overseas, countering some of the competitive pressures that have undermined the bargaining position of domestic employees.

Finally, economic insecurity, wealth and income inequality, anger and resentment over all that has been lost, and the perception that those at the top are increasingly vulnerable, will motivate employees to become more activistic and to bolster their bargaining position by banding together to achieve strength in numbers.

With that, I expect that we will see many more incidents like the one described in the following Reuters report, entitled "Laid-Off Workers Occupy Chicago Factory, Seek Pay."

Invoking Main Street resentment of Wall Street's federal bailout, some 200 workers entered their third day of occupying a shuttered Chicago window and door factory on Sunday, demanding that Bank of America agree to pay them severance plus vacation pay.

Workers belonging to the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers union began their peaceful occupation of the plant on Friday after family-owned Republic Windows & Doors said it was closing after Bank of America canceled its line of credit.

The workers said Republic Windows & Doors gave them only three days notice of Friday's closing instead of the 60 days required by law, and owes them roughly $3,500 per worker including unused vacation pay.

A union spokeswoman said Bank of America is not letting the company pay the workers.

"We're just shocked that Bank of America, after receiving $25 billion in bailout money, not only do they refuse to extend credit to companies but, to add insult to injury, they don't allow these companies to fulfill their legal obligations to their workers," union spokeswoman Leah Fried said.

The downturn in home construction doomed the plant, which has manufactured windows and doors for more than 30 years.

Bank of America was among several U.S. banks to receive funding from a $700 billion federal bailout package designed to stabilize the financial system.

The laid-off workers hoisted placards saying, "Bank of America: You got bailed out. We got sold out."

According to the Chicago Tribune, the bank said it was not responsible for Republic's financial obligations to its employees. A Bank of America spokesman was not immediately available for comment.

Officials of Republic Windows & Doors also could not be reached for comment.

The parties were expected to meet on Monday.





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[big_G]

Seems to me (a simple person) that B of A felt certain risk involved with a loan, and was protecting their best interest. I don't know what law requires 60 days notice of pending lay-off. A company closes the doors and your out of a job. Period. Is this where we're heading? I already refuse to hire non-english speaking persons, and I'll close my doors if the government imposes any more Socialistic requirements of me.

 

[JPhil]

"They fired the factory workers and I didn't speak up....."

 

[JPhil]

 

[mrvette]

It's not just executive salaries.The average GM worker is averaging $73 per hour compared to a little more than half of that for a Toyota worker.

Here is some info for you to listen to.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heathe...ng-70-hour-auto

It may be hard for the Union bashers to stomach this, but the $38 is closer to the truth with the full benefit package(health care and pension).

here's one for you:

www.unionfacts.com

Unions exist for two reasons and two reasons only. To over pay the incompetent and raise money for the Democrats.

I'll give you the 'raise money for the DoMoCraps' part ok....not an issue....but as for the competent part, I disagree....Unions do more than anyone to ensure the guys know WTF they are doing, more tests and retests, and training, and schools....ask Jeff...IBEW...think some HS dropout wires a friggin power plant?? or can talk to a nuclear engineer about welding standards?? don't THINK so.....

:devil:

 

[mrvette]

But yet you look at a Alabama house and i'ts only 50 grand for a palace and a shack costs like a Alabama mansion up north, not to mention the taxes and heating costs, screw the a/c bills in summer....

then we can go to GM in California there with Toy in that plant...paying UAW wages, i"M sure....buy a house anywhere in Ca. for a mear 75 bux/hour....ain't happening....

Shit, I sold my shack in the DC burbs for 165 grand...know I could have had a house on the water here for THAT.....but not ME, should have, really...be far better off today, given the REST of the sordid story....:cussing:

Yes, cost of living is a factor, however, the job worth $38 in Peoria isn't worth $90 because it's in CA....

RONG, oh YES IT IS......a 1600' house is the same living standard wether in Ca. or Mi......or Slohio......man/wife/2.5 kids.....cost 5 million bux in Ca. cost 500 grand in Slohio, cost 150 in Florida.....and wages just about compensate on that basis....well, not really, I bet Jeff could not buy his own house today....neither could I, really....

:crap:

 

[DeeVeeEight]

My point is the mark up. A NAPA cap would have been $30.00, but GM is $48.00.

You gotta help pay those Exectutive salaries of $7,000,000.00 a year,
and those Private Jets that cost $20,000 a trip to operate just so they
can fly to ask "Uncle" to bail them out. And where is the money going
to go? To cover Pensions!

Maybe this 1 time Obama is right......all they need is $150,000 a year.
Who's gonna take the first pay cut to save the company???????
Maybe their not so "Loyal" after all.

Heck...I'd be tickled to death with a $150,000 a year.

I agree. The execs' need to be a little more humble, especially in view of the current situation.

 

[Jsup]

But yet you look at a Alabama house and i'ts only 50 grand for a palace and a shack costs like a Alabama mansion up north, not to mention the taxes and heating costs, screw the a/c bills in summer....

then we can go to GM in California there with Toy in that plant...paying UAW wages, i"M sure....buy a house anywhere in Ca. for a mear 75 bux/hour....ain't happening....

Shit, I sold my shack in the DC burbs for 165 grand...know I could have had a house on the water here for THAT.....but not ME, should have, really...be far better off today, given the REST of the sordid story....:cussing:

Yes, cost of living is a factor, however, the job worth $38 in Peoria isn't worth $90 because it's in CA....

RONG, oh YES IT IS......a 1600' house is the same living standard wether in Ca. or Mi......or Slohio......man/wife/2.5 kids.....cost 5 million bux in Ca. cost 500 grand in Slohio, cost 150 in Florida.....and wages just about compensate on that basis....well, not really, I bet Jeff could not buy his own house today....neither could I, really....

:crap:

Wrong, you just don't build plants in those places... SIMPLE.

What you're saying is that an gallon of milk should cost $10 in LA and $1 in Michigan. I don't agree. A gallon of milk is worth what it's worth.

 

[Jsup]

Thanks for listening:
Next up:
Union firefighters in NY. Lets take their pension and go non union. Fuck em.:smash: Taxes are too high.
Same for NY cops. Fuck em.:smash:
Unions in airlines. I bet we can get a pilot for $20 an hour. Feel safe?
Let's make them Boeing airliners in Mexico/Puerto Rico. It will be fine. They will be safe.:bomb:
Let's all make minimum wage. I'll buy two new cars with that.:surrender:

Pensoins are dinosaurs. THey should be killed and the taxpayer should not back them.

Tell my why I should have to pay SS I"ll never see, back a pension that I don't get, and still save for my own retirement. Yep, as a private sector working stiff I get to take care of everyone else before I get to take care of myself and my family. Nice huh?

Please, show me how you justify that.

 

[Jsup]

Financial Armageddon
The Pendulum Is Set to Swing Back in Favor of Labor

Posted: 07 Dec 2008 07:06 PM CST

The influence of organized labor has been waning for years. Among the reasons: the growth of "offshoring," which has thinned the ranks of traditionally heavily-unionized domestic manufacturing industries; a sustained period of economic expansion (up until recently, at least), which convinced many workers that they did not need union backing to make their way up the economic ladder; and, a lack of political support in the wake of the secular shift to the right following Reagan's election as President in 1980.

However, several developments suggest the pendulum is set to swing the other way.

First is the fact that a crashing economy, widespread and growing resentment over perceived "fat cat" bailouts, and Democratic control of the executive and legislative branches will almost certainly shift the moral high ground and balance of power away from financiers and senior corporate executives to those who are seen as having lost out -- the workers.

In addition, energy, security, and political concerns appear to be driving nascent efforts to have more goods produced locally instead of overseas, countering some of the competitive pressures that have undermined the bargaining position of domestic employees.

Finally, economic insecurity, wealth and income inequality, anger and resentment over all that has been lost, and the perception that those at the top are increasingly vulnerable, will motivate employees to become more activistic and to bolster their bargaining position by banding together to achieve strength in numbers.

With that, I expect that we will see many more incidents like the one described in the following Reuters report, entitled "Laid-Off Workers Occupy Chicago Factory, Seek Pay."

Invoking Main Street resentment of Wall Street's federal bailout, some 200 workers entered their third day of occupying a shuttered Chicago window and door factory on Sunday, demanding that Bank of America agree to pay them severance plus vacation pay.

Workers belonging to the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers union began their peaceful occupation of the plant on Friday after family-owned Republic Windows & Doors said it was closing after Bank of America canceled its line of credit.

The workers said Republic Windows & Doors gave them only three days notice of Friday's closing instead of the 60 days required by law, and owes them roughly $3,500 per worker including unused vacation pay.

A union spokeswoman said Bank of America is not letting the company pay the workers.

"We're just shocked that Bank of America, after receiving $25 billion in bailout money, not only do they refuse to extend credit to companies but, to add insult to injury, they don't allow these companies to fulfill their legal obligations to their workers," union spokeswoman Leah Fried said.

The downturn in home construction doomed the plant, which has manufactured windows and doors for more than 30 years.

Bank of America was among several U.S. banks to receive funding from a $700 billion federal bailout package designed to stabilize the financial system.

The laid-off workers hoisted placards saying, "Bank of America: You got bailed out. We got sold out."

According to the Chicago Tribune, the bank said it was not responsible for Republic's financial obligations to its employees. A Bank of America spokesman was not immediately available for comment.

Officials of Republic Windows & Doors also could not be reached for comment.

The parties were expected to meet on Monday.





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Here's the problem with this situation. BOA is being forced to make a bad loan.

DOESN'T ANYONE RELAIZE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT STARTED THIS ENTIRE COLLAPSE? BANKS BEING FORCED BY GOVERNMENT EDICT TO MAKE BAD LOANS? ARE WE THAT STUPID?

 

[Jsup]

"They fired the factory workers and I didn't speak up....."

Companies don't exist for the benefit of the workers, it's the other way around.

 

[big2bird]

What you're saying is that an gallon of milk should cost $10 in LA and $1 in Michigan. I don't agree. A gallon of milk is worth what it's worth.

I don't believe you can compare real property to milk. You cannot ship "climate, location" by truck.

However, I also do not think you can by milk in Antarctica for the same price as Wisconsin.

 

[big2bird]

Tell my why I should have to pay SS I"ll never see, back a pension that I don't get, and still save for my own retirement. Yep, as a private sector working stiff I get to take care of everyone else before I get to take care of myself and my family. Nice huh?

You don't. You can move your business to Bangladesh.

 

[big2bird]

"They fired the factory workers and I didn't speak up....."

Companies don't exist for the benefit of the workers, it's the other way around.

Actually, ideally, it is a symbiosis. One CANNOT exist without the other.

 

[Jsup]

Tell my why I should have to pay SS I"ll never see, back a pension that I don't get, and still save for my own retirement. Yep, as a private sector working stiff I get to take care of everyone else before I get to take care of myself and my family. Nice huh?

You don't. You can move your business to Bangladesh.

If it were feasible, I would. Serious. I am tired of carrying and insuring other people. Not my problem. I'll take care of me, stop reaching in my pocket to take car of YOU. (not you directly you understand, you in the general sense). Why should I? Whty should I back SS that the SOBs (selfish old bastards refuse to change by mass voting) why should I back union pensions? Who TF are they to me? Meanwhile, I can't put that money into my kids education or my retirement. Nice huh?

I suppose that makes me greedy, selfish, etc...all the names called by people who think they have a right to income call me. Odd thing though, those reaching into my pocket are never called such things. Funny how that works.

This last election, McCain included, demonstrated how we reached a point in this country where people want the taxpayers to support their standard of living. Look, I"m all for food, clothing, shelter for a time. However, BROADBAND is now a part of Obama's plan? A constitutional right to fast internet and digital TV? WTF?

It's a sick, sick society that looks to a strong federal government to provide those things for them, that they SHOULD be providing for themselves, not to survive, but to maintain a standard of living above an beyond their capability.