While we are talking politics...

[turtlevette]

I guess with some people the issue is fairness?

They bust their butts to make their money then the government takes it and gives it to others, some of which are lazy people who do not contribute to society and have no plans to ever work a day.

Yea it ain't fair. But you know, its only money. Not that big a deal. We do need reforms to get some of these people working.

Is it fair that some people have paid the ultimate price or have lost legs or been scarred for life in war to keep us all free and safe while guys like me never spent one day in a uniform? Hell no. I don't know how to reconcile that. It's a debt that can never be paid.

In a perfect socitey everyone would share an equal burden.

 

[69427]

[I asked for two simple Yes or NOs.

Okay, let me ask you in a different way. The fruit of my labor (wages/money)are forcibly taken away from me and given to someone (who is not family) and who is now enriching their lives, without any effort of their own. You say this is moral. Okay, were the similar actions in the southern half of our country, up 'til 1865 shall we say, where the fruits of one peoples' labor was taken and enjoyed by a completely different group (and I'm guessing they weren't blood relatives to the first group) moral? Was this forced transfer of assets similarly moral?

Again, is the Eighth Commandment broken in the examples in this post, and the previous post? YES or NO?

Do you think it's moral to make sure nobody starves? Or dies from somthing because they can't get simple medical treatments. I think it is. The answer would be YES.

You? I didn't ask you that. I asked you if it's immoral to forcibly confiscate one person's property for the use of another. Again, does that violate the Eighth Commandment? Yes or No?

Does the line "Provide for the common good" mean something to you. No. What is it supposed to mean? Just nice feel good platitudes? On its surface, yes.

Does the line "promote the general welfare" mean anything to you?

I have no idea what you are rambling about above. You are equating paying taxes to slavery? Focus, man. I am not talking about constitutional uses of our tax money that benefits everyone (defense, police and fire, roads, necessary public employee salaries, etc). I am talking about the confiscation of the fruits of one citizen's labor (his time or money) for the specific, not general, use by another citizen. If I was to take your property (money) and put it in my pocket, I am certain you would accuse me of theft (which breaks the Eighth Commandment). Why does the mere presence of a politician or IRS in the middle of this same type transaction not similarly regarded by you as THEFT? If you are that far out there i have nothing to discuss with you other than corvette stuff. I think having two heat shield shims is giving your spongy pedal.

Far out is a relative term. Depends on where you're standing. I'm a Christian, and my moral code/compass is the same on Sunday morning and each other day of the week. That includes election Tuesdays.

 

[69427]

I guess with some people the issue is fairness?

They bust their butts to make their money then the government takes it and gives it to others, some of which are lazy people who do not contribute to society and have no plans to ever work a day.

Yea it ain't fair. But you know, its only money. Not that big a deal. We do need reforms to get some of these people working.

Is it fair that some people have paid the ultimate price or have lost legs or been scarred for life in war to keep us all free and safe while guys like me never spent one day in a uniform? Hell no. I don't know how to reconcile that. It's a debt that can never be paid.

In a perfect socitey everyone would share an equal burden.

Wrong. Money is not like oxygen, just floating around for the taking. Money represents our labor, which is time consumed out of our lives to earn it. Our time cannot be replaced. An item that represents something as scarce and valuable as our time IS a big deal.

That's why most of welfare isn't appreciated. There was no personal expenditure of scarce life time to obtain this money.

 

[68L71]

[I asked for two simple Yes or NOs.

Okay, let me ask you in a different way. The fruit of my labor (wages/money)are forcibly taken away from me and given to someone (who is not family) and who is now enriching their lives, without any effort of their own. You say this is moral. Okay, were the similar actions in the southern half of our country, up 'til 1865 shall we say, where the fruits of one peoples' labor was taken and enjoyed by a completely different group (and I'm guessing they weren't blood relatives to the first group) moral? Was this forced transfer of assets similarly moral?

Again, is the Eighth Commandment broken in the examples in this post, and the previous post? YES or NO?

Do you think it's moral to make sure nobody starves? Or dies from somthing because they can't get simple medical treatments. I think it is. The answer would be YES.

You? I didn't ask you that. I asked you if it's immoral to forcibly confiscate one person's property for the use of another. Again, does that violate the Eighth Commandment? Yes or No?

Does the line "Provide for the common good" mean something to you. No. What is it supposed to mean? Just nice feel good platitudes? On its surface, yes.

Does the line "promote the general welfare" mean anything to you?

I have no idea what you are rambling about above. You are equating paying taxes to slavery? Focus, man. I am not talking about constitutional uses of our tax money that benefits everyone (defense, police and fire, roads, necessary public employee salaries, etc). I am talking about the confiscation of the fruits of one citizen's labor (his time or money) for the specific, not general, use by another citizen. If I was to take your property (money) and put it in my pocket, I am certain you would accuse me of theft (which breaks the Eighth Commandment). Why does the mere presence of a politician or IRS in the middle of this same type transaction not similarly regarded by you as THEFT? If you are that far out there i have nothing to discuss with you other than corvette stuff. I think having two heat shield shims is giving your spongy pedal.

Far out is a relative term. Depends on where you're standing. I'm a Christian, and my moral code/compass is the same on Sunday morning and each other day of the week. That includes election Tuesdays.

Thank you....

 

[turtlevette]

Wrong. Money is not like oxygen, just floating around for the taking. Money represents our labor, which is time consumed out of our lives to earn it. Our time cannot be replaced. An item that represents something as scarce and valuable as our time IS a big deal.
.

Damn good point. I just spent an hour of my life trying to reason with unreasonable old farts. How do i get back my $175 bucks that just went down the shitter?

 

[denpo]

Wrong. Money is not like oxygen, just floating around for the taking. Money represents our labor, which is time consumed out of our lives to earn it. Our time cannot be replaced. An item that represents something as scarce and valuable as our time IS a big deal.

That's why most of welfare isn't appreciated. There was no personal expenditure of scarce life time to obtain this money.

I made a burn out 2 years ago, 3 month of mental flat line, because of too much OT and stress.
I realized how relative was the importance of making money over enjoying my short journey on earth.
I don't think people on welfare are happy of their situation, those who say otherwise are just in denial or too ashamed.
Everywhere, and even more in your country everybody dream of the perfect life, a job, a wife, a house, kid, pool, tv......

Life isn't fair, you don't choose your abusive parents, you don't choose your crippling disease, you don't choose you depression, and on the later I can attest.
Their expenditure is a shitty life, and long miserable shitty life. You don't want it, nothing to envy really.

I don't believe in God, and still I sound like Jesus. Guys, where's the love?

 

[69427]

Wrong. Money is not like oxygen, just floating around for the taking. Money represents our labor, which is time consumed out of our lives to earn it. Our time cannot be replaced. An item that represents something as scarce and valuable as our time IS a big deal.
.

Damn good point. I just spent an hour of my life trying to reason with unreasonable old farts. How do i get back my $175 bucks that just went down the shitter?

Yes, and you willingly donated it. Big govermnent did not forcibly confiscate it.

I've tried to explain to you the moral difference between charity and theft. I've failed in that endevour. I'm done with this thread.

 

[turtlevette]

That's why most of welfare isn't appreciated.

Yes, and you willingly donated it. .

Yet another donation to go unappreciated. LOL