WTF?! Help! SMC lifting from steel support.

enkeivette

enkeivette

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Mar 30, 2008
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So I noticed today as I was finishing up the sanding, that my headlights won't open. The headlights will now hit the body behind them, if I push down on the body (area behind the headlights in front of the hood) there is enough room for them to lift. So after examining I realize that the body has somehow separated from the metal brace underneath it. I'm assuming it's glued? How can I fix this? Countersunk screws through the body, into the metal and filler over the screws? Or should I just glue it? What sort of glue if so?

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DAYUM!! the early sharks had troubles with aluminum rivets eventually causing Al oxice blistering of the glass on account of they were used to fasten to that header....I sanded mine down some years ago.....

this is a first I hear of the headers in later sharks coming loose from the bonding glue however....I know that header can come outta there, cleaned up and reglued with special glue with a namelongerthanthiswholedamnsentanceis.....


so yes it's fixable, but you need that famous polycan'tpronounceit.....


:harhar::suicide::crutches:
 
That is a common problem, especially in rust-prone climates. You don't want to hear this, but the support bar needs to come out in order to clean up the bond area and re-glue. If it is loose and you just fix the area you see now, other areas will come apart real soon. I use a 2-part urethane (3M 8219) to re-attach the support.
 
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The metal header probably has rust on it which cause it to turn loose in the first
place. Best to remove the header and clean all the rust, glue, etc. off of it
so that it is bare metal. Sand surface of metal with 80 grit. Clean under side
of nose the same way. You can glue the two back together with 3M 8115
Panel Bonding Adhesive. After test fit and marking your alignment apply the
adhesive and clamp in place with some C-clamp vise-grips and let set for 24hrs.
Should not have to worry about it ever again.


I'm sure there are other products that will also do the trick, Can't speak for
those but do know the 3M product will work great.
 
There is an easy way around the testfitting, since you already sanded your car.
Put selfthreading screws through the surround and into the header bar before your remove. Then remove and assemble with the same screws. Watch out not to fasten it to much or you could distort the surround.
Remove the screws after the bonding paste has cured. Then fill the holes appropriatly.
 
Belgian1979vette said:
There is an easy way around the testfitting, since you already sanded your car.
Put selfthreading screws through the surround and into the header bar before your remove. Then remove and assemble with the same screws. Watch out not to fasten it to much or you could distort the surround.
Remove the screws after the bonding paste has cured. Then fill the holes appropriatly.
Click to expand...


It can be a real pain if you don't do it that way.
 
It's easy to remove just remove the headlights assemblies (5 bolts, 2 on the front 3 on the back), the center support rod and the 2 triangular supports that bolt to the inner fender. The bolts are on the wheel side and there's one bolt going up into the header bar itself. CArefully chisel away the header bar to break it loose. It should come out easily since yours is already mostly detached.

To reinstall, it's possible to just slide it in the front without taking out the rad & support. You can simply align the whole thing by blting it in place with the triangular supports. The shape of the bar will only fit one way with a little room to move it about. You can scribe a line across the body and bar before removing it. If you then buy a new one you can copy the line to get your datum back. The screws are a good ide but only useful if you reuse the old header bar.

Glue it with epoxy adhesive.

Oh and if you get a new bar, remove the paint from the bonding areas. Also, I'd advise you to repaint the whole thing with some better paint and even coat the inside with some bitumen or other product to keep moisture away from the metal. The paint it comes with easily scraped off.
 
I have to push the body down way too much in the center (as you can see from the pic) to get it to hit the header. It is no wonder to me that this thing broke loose, there is so much stress on it.

Rather than stressing it out (since I already filled the hood to match the body) should I put more of a bend in the header? So that it matches the natural bend of the body? Or just fill in the difference with glue? The separation of the body and header behind the headlamps is minimal, I could put a piece of wood on the body to keep it straight, c clamp it, but not tighten the c clamp to the point where the body is totally stressed out.
 
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enkeivette said:
I have to push the body down way too much in the center (as you can see from the pic) to get it to hit the header. It is no wonder to me that this thing broke loose, there is so much stress on it.

Rather than stressing it out (since I already filled the hood to match the body) should I put more of a bend in the header? So that it matches the natural bend of the body? Or just fill in the difference with glue? The separation of the body and header behind the headlamps is minimal, I could put a piece of wood on the body to keep it straight, c clamp it, but not tighten the c clamp to the point where the body is totally stressed out.
Click to expand...

Interesting, so you are saying above, that the glass is lined up nice with the hood when the hood in on and functioning....

yet that metal would be pulling it down so the front edge of the hood would stick up about 1/4+ inch...from what I see....

IF my interpretation is correct, it's the same as MY car...only for some reason, years ago when I got the car it was perfect alignment...but when I hit a damn Florida DEER right square up into both headlights, it busted them backwards and broke them up badly....hastening my conversion to the ecklers sugar scoop fixed lights which I altered later on....

I took a piece of plastic pipe and propped up the center of the metal support header, to raise the plastic back up, it's a '72 so was rivited, and as said above ground flat from the corrosion/swelling pimples in the surface....

that support was the only way I could see to get it to line up again...really strange in that nothing else seemed to be a problem, so I can't spot where it was bent....

:cussing:
 
The hood was down a bit, but I used filler to get the body lines to match up. And pushing the body down till it hits the SMC puts so much stress on it that you can see the fenders move out.

8115, 8116, and 8219 are all $50 for a bottle! And I don't have the applicator gun which is $90! Is there some smaller dual cartridge self ejecting mix yourself kinda deal that I can use instead? I'm not spending $140 for some glue. Or can I just buy the 8115 and squirt it out by hand and mix it with a pencil on a mixing board?
 
If you lay a 2x4 across the fiberglass and then use one or two C-clamps - will that force the metal piece up or the fiberglass down ?
use one or two pieces of wood, at least a foot long to distribute the load of the C-clamp.
It "should" force the metal piece back up into position.... or just take it out, clean and bend to where you need it and then glue it back in place.

The 3M glue can be mixed by hand but you don't have much time :smash:

They sell an Epoxy glue at HomeDepot in the section where the Simpson strongties are. That stuff is used to glue anchors into holes in concrete and it mixes in one single cartridge. $20 for one cartridge - cheaper than the 3M stuff and it is epoxy so it should work.

Read the instructions BEFORE you mix it with a drill.... I mixed it up and THEN read that you only have 3minutes to use it.... it's getting VERY hot... wear gloves
:smash:
 
enkeivette said:
I have to push the body down way too much in the center (as you can see from the pic) to get it to hit the header. It is no wonder to me that this thing broke loose, there is so much stress on it.

Rather than stressing it out (since I already filled the hood to match the body) should I put more of a bend in the header? So that it matches the natural bend of the body? Or just fill in the difference with glue? The separation of the body and header behind the headlamps is minimal, I could put a piece of wood on the body to keep it straight, c clamp it, but not tighten the c clamp to the point where the body is totally stressed out.
Click to expand...

More likely you will need to pull the support up as opposed to pushing the surround down. Over the years the headlight assy. weight takes it's toll. You must be sure of the position when you glue/clamp it up. You don't want to have to break it apart again. BTW, I will lend you the applicator gun for the 3M products if you will pay the shipping, and return it asap.(I make myliving off my tools). ;) PM me with your address if you want to borrow it.
 
Might be a brainfart but I'm not afraid to ask:

Instead of using this $100 dual cartridge gun - do you think it is possible to use two "regular" guns ??? Are the cartridges the same size as the common RTV cartridge from the hardware store ??
 
I pushed a screwdriver up the ass end of the cartridge and squirted it out onto a mixing board. Worked like a charm. Then gun would be helpful if you had to lay a thin bead, but I just needed to goop it on all over the place.
 
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