Ozzy
Well-known member
I guess you got rid of the Vette for this van?
2000 ford windstar more trouble
- Thread starter JeffP1167
- Start date
I guess you got rid of the Vette for this van?
JeffP1167
Well-known member
Ok guys heres yet another interesting thing the van does. Time after time on code retrievals miss in #2 is always there however sometimes it sets other cylinders to.
If I keep the rpm steady at say 2500rpm in nuetral and it is skipping it all of a sudden jumps in rpm and runs perfectly. If I keep the trans out of OD and at about 3100rpm on the freeway it seems to run ok. But if the rpm is allowed to fall the heavy miss comes back
Almost seems like a fouled spark plug that suddenlt comes back to life in a way.
the misses almost seem rpm related or throttle position related as in what sets them in motion. Kinda like over 1/2 throttle and above 3000rpm the miss dissapears. .... Could I be dealing with a bad cam/crank sensor that is not sensing cylinders at times.
can anyone explain just how EDIS fires? Like what determines stuff and the correct cylinder select for firing. I doubt my PCM is to blame I just don't think it would come and go like it is. I doubt it to be fuel related or catalytic converter related since upper rpm is where the van always runs the best.
I still have that weird noise in my intake manifold almost like popping back in the intake, perhaps a stuck intake valve?
here is what is new so far
plugs
wires
plenum rubber O-rings
coil pack
injectors
the abs/traction control issue has been resolved ... EGR valve disconnected
Could a crank/cam sensor miss detect position and the ecm not see it as being bad?
If I keep the rpm steady at say 2500rpm in nuetral and it is skipping it all of a sudden jumps in rpm and runs perfectly. If I keep the trans out of OD and at about 3100rpm on the freeway it seems to run ok. But if the rpm is allowed to fall the heavy miss comes back
Almost seems like a fouled spark plug that suddenlt comes back to life in a way.
the misses almost seem rpm related or throttle position related as in what sets them in motion. Kinda like over 1/2 throttle and above 3000rpm the miss dissapears. .... Could I be dealing with a bad cam/crank sensor that is not sensing cylinders at times.
can anyone explain just how EDIS fires? Like what determines stuff and the correct cylinder select for firing. I doubt my PCM is to blame I just don't think it would come and go like it is. I doubt it to be fuel related or catalytic converter related since upper rpm is where the van always runs the best.
I still have that weird noise in my intake manifold almost like popping back in the intake, perhaps a stuck intake valve?
here is what is new so far
plugs
wires
plenum rubber O-rings
coil pack
injectors
the abs/traction control issue has been resolved ... EGR valve disconnected
Could a crank/cam sensor miss detect position and the ecm not see it as being bad?
JeffP1167
Well-known member
I have both my vettes and my 97 camaro still. Just prefer the mini-van is all just more convienent in every aspect of my day to day use and it sucks without it.
Ozzy
Well-known member
Have you done all the old school checks? Compression, valve lift, valve spring pressure? It sounds to me like there is a mechanical problem with the number 2 cylinder.
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
:shocking: Did you check the resistance of your cam and crank position sensors?? at the computer?? skin the wire back, you should unplug from the computer first....I say check at the computer, as that confirms the harness also....
I think I already suggested this above somewhere....
:shocking:
I think I already suggested this above somewhere....
:shocking:
JeffP1167
Well-known member
No, I haven't ohm'ed anything. Just curious if the PCM might miss and intermitent faulty crank or cam sensor.
A new tank of fuel was added today so that isn't the problem.
I highly doubt it is a mechanical issues since that wouldn't come and go plus the van hasn't even broken 80K miles yet. No smoke out the tail pipe ... However you can hear the miss from the tailpipe.
A new tank of fuel was added today so that isn't the problem.
I highly doubt it is a mechanical issues since that wouldn't come and go plus the van hasn't even broken 80K miles yet. No smoke out the tail pipe ... However you can hear the miss from the tailpipe.
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
One of the first thing to check is those coils....top of the list, damn near....
:crap:
:crap:
JeffP1167
Well-known member
codes were retrieved several times and erased through the obd port with a scanner.
P0302 always comes up
however P0301, P0305, P0303 randomly come and go. Its my understanding EDIS uses the cam sensor more for injector firing and the crank sensor for cylinder firing.
Maybe I have random hits and misses of the injectors but to me sounds more like cylinder firing issue and if you read back some the van also had a issue where it was like a engine cranking over that was 180 out on the distributor. Sometimes it still has extended cranking times before it will start.
The noise in the plenum baffles me as to what it is. Perhaps that is a plug firing before a valve closes. I do know the plastic plenum get very hot after about 10 minutes but no coolant flows through it. Perhaps certain cylinders are firing before the intake valve closes and combustion is coming back into the plenum and that is why it gets so hot and the related noise I hear.
This weekend I will try a timing light on each plug wire and see what happens when the miss is most obvious.
P0302 always comes up
however P0301, P0305, P0303 randomly come and go. Its my understanding EDIS uses the cam sensor more for injector firing and the crank sensor for cylinder firing.
Maybe I have random hits and misses of the injectors but to me sounds more like cylinder firing issue and if you read back some the van also had a issue where it was like a engine cranking over that was 180 out on the distributor. Sometimes it still has extended cranking times before it will start.
The noise in the plenum baffles me as to what it is. Perhaps that is a plug firing before a valve closes. I do know the plastic plenum get very hot after about 10 minutes but no coolant flows through it. Perhaps certain cylinders are firing before the intake valve closes and combustion is coming back into the plenum and that is why it gets so hot and the related noise I hear.
This weekend I will try a timing light on each plug wire and see what happens when the miss is most obvious.
Last edited:
JeffP1167
Well-known member
They were replaced and it still runs exactly the same as with the original coil pack. Plug wires still arc and have the strange glowing light in them even though they were replaced to.
Last edited:
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
Fuck that codes crap, 1/2 the time the computers will see some bullshit signal from the sensors, and so maybe not even set codes....the waveform is all screwed up....a open coil CAN do that, like on a '94 Dodge 318 van with a bad Crank sens coil....wide open....disconnect it and engine would die, ran like crap.....measure the coil and it was wide open...plug it in again and it ran like crap...pull the connector, engine immediately dies.....tells ME the coil/sensor had SOME funky output the computer didn't recognize....and so struggles along with it....
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
You mean the crank position AND cam position sensors?? they are NOT part of any coil pack I seen yet....I think of coil pack like on wife's Escort, that's the spark coils and some cast in electronics below it....not any sensors....
JeffP1167
Well-known member
You mean the crank position AND cam position sensors?? they are NOT part of any coil pack I seen yet....I think of coil pack like on wife's Escort, that's the spark coils and some cast in electronics below it....not any sensors....
yeah I know but could one be faulty and the pcm doesn't see it as having a intermittent issue
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
You mean the crank position AND cam position sensors?? they are NOT part of any coil pack I seen yet....I think of coil pack like on wife's Escort, that's the spark coils and some cast in electronics below it....not any sensors....
yeah I know but could one be faulty and the pcm doesn't see it as having a intermittent issue
HELL YES!!!!
:lol:
JeffP1167
Well-known member
You mean the crank position AND cam position sensors?? they are NOT part of any coil pack I seen yet....I think of coil pack like on wife's Escort, that's the spark coils and some cast in electronics below it....not any sensors....
yeah I know but could one be faulty and the pcm doesn't see it as having a intermittent issue
HELL YES!!!!
:lol:
I remember about a year ago I went through a very deep flooded intersection and for about 5 minutes the van stumbled and missed very similiar to what it is now. However after a few minutes it cleared right up.
JeffP1167
Well-known member
The Camshaft and crank sensors are not to much so I will give them a shot
JeffP1167
Well-known member
I ordered new MAF/cam position/crank position/throttle position sensors today for the van.
This weekend will really look at things and figure out what is going on with this van. If it weren't in excellent condition it would have gone to pick-a-part 3 weeks ago hahaha ....
This weekend will really look at things and figure out what is going on with this van. If it weren't in excellent condition it would have gone to pick-a-part 3 weeks ago hahaha ....
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
Every clap trap vehicle is in excellent shape, in Kalifornia.....the rust of us dudes have to deal with mommy nature.....
so how you doing in the rains there??
:search::beer:
JeffP1167
Well-known member
Tonight I drove the not so mighty windstar and found something again kind of weird. When it is stumbling at say 1300rpm it does so like clockwork for 25 seconds and the miss goes away. While it is running smooth it will do this for right about 15 seconds and then go back to stumbling. When it smooths out the engine jumps about 1,000rpm and the check engine lamp stops flashing as well ..... So in a sense it has a cycle to it as strange as that sounds. I can't imagine a mechanical issue would act like this, or is this just a coincidence ?????
DeeVeeEight
Fast Pedalphile
It sounds like the computer is struggling with bad input signals and going into different default (limp home) modes. I hate to see you throw money at various sensors in hopes of finding the offending issue. At this point, if it were my car, I would take it to a professional. Sometimes it is cheaper to bite the bullet and spend the money.
JeffP1167
Well-known member
how do you access different codes on this van. Like for instance I had a printout of codes but they were showing different ones like U1262 yet with my scanner I can only get codes like P0302 etc.
the sensors are no more then 25.00 each so worth the gamble.
If I say go to pickapart and grab a pcm out of another windstar will it have to be reprogrammed in mine to work?