C3/4/5 frankenstein frame

[vette427sbc]

Flares will be nice. With - or without the "mud-flaps?"

Looks like we've found the same wire-wrap materials (Alex-Tech?). It is the "fabric" that wraps/expands around like a tube? Not cheap - but way better than the old plastic spiral wraps! Understand no melt until about 400F.

Cheers - Jim

No mudflaps! A feature I love about the 68/69 cars. The half wrap is still a tape, although pulls off without residue. The manufacturer is Tessa... I primarily work on European cars day to day and this allows me to make my wire harness/electronics look more factory. Using it almost daily, it grew on me... I really like the properties and I think it just looks cool! Only suitable for interior use though...

looking GOOD! Out of curiosity why did you go with a 19" tire? There are a lot more tire choices, especially in track tires, in the 18" size.

Thanks! I really prefer C3’s with a 27” tall tire... I couldn’t find anything (DOT) 345/35/18 I figure with vipers and corvettes running the 19” wheels I would have tire options for a while as well. Trying to build a double-duty car that’s still streetable and still trackable makes it a bad streetcar, and also a compromised race car. :lol: i think I’ll have a permanent smile on whenever I’m in the drivers seat though!

A C3 with flares is always a good thing. :clap:

 

[vette427sbc]

Some long term projects finally coming to reality! I think I started designing this radiator around January... C&R racing totally knocked it out of the park. Very easy to deal with, and helped with the design to make this as efficient as possible.

27.5" x 14.5", double pass 55mm core, extruded tube, type R fins. Sized to get it lower in the chassis and closer to the center of the car. :1st:











Still need to fab the mounts and hoses, but this is about where it sits

 

[vette427sbc]

Slow, wiring is hard to show progress through photos. Here’s a few highlights... Doing my best to design this as an OEM might.

Ditched the generic Spal connectors for these high current weather proof ones from amphenol


Alot going on back here... fuel lines, heater lines, and the engine bulkhead connector. This is a Delphi HES 29 pin, multi gauge. The distributor fits right in, and the harness can be unplugged without removing it



Also got the radiator mounts finished. .25” 6061. They are machined to match the angle of the tanks as they sit in the frame (40° lay-forward)

 

[mfain]

Looking really good!

Pappy

 

[69427]

I agree with Pappy above: Looking really good! I'm looking forward to hearing your reactions/feedback from your first track day.

Question: Regarding the radiator, for the uninformed (me, specifically), what are type R fins?

Edit: Just wondered, any changes required to the hood hinge setup to clear the new radiator positioning?

 

[BBShark]

What are your plans for hoses? I (think) I will be able to use a stock bottom hose but the top hose is made from 2 60's cars cut in half and coupled together. I found them by going in the stock room at NAPA and searching the wall of hoses they had.

 

[vette427sbc]

:hi:

Pappy- appreciate it! Your car has given me lots of inspiration for many of the design elements on my car. So thank you for that!

Mike- The type R fin is Hard to describe... perforated maybe? There are fins on the fins! I’ll see if I can capture a picture. According to my eyeball, the hood should clear. If it doesn’t, I will only have to shorten the prop rod slightly.
As far as track impressions; I can’t wait either, but I’m just as excited to see what kind of street manors this car will have. I’ve got so much time in the design trying to make this balancing act work. As long as I can’t out drive the car in the first few years of driving (I have a feeling I’ll still be dialing it in in 3 years) then I’ll be happy. I have a lot to learn as a driver as this is way more car than I’ve ever tracked. Well, it’s alot of car on paper. We will know soon enough!

BBShark- im thinking something close to the stock lower as well... the upper will need to be three pieces, likely with a hardline making up 1/2 or a 1/3 of the length... I’m striking out at the finding something in the stock rooms at the auto parts stores. The hose has to be tight to the head and then to the coil over hoop to make room for the radiator exhaust duct, AND the crossbar. If you e got any pics of that you have for your upper hose, please share!

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

that looks awesome enough to copy

 

[vette427sbc]

Not much to update... but Ill hopefully be putting some more time into the vette soon. Im starting to focus more on the bodywork so I can get wheels ordered. I think being able to see it roll around on its own is more motivating to me than being able to start it. Plus it is a pain to push it around the shop on dollys. I did get the hood on it to start lining up the front clip so I can get my front fenders grafted in. I with I could say I planned this to work out so well, but the hood clears the radiator perfectly using the stock hinges. It was a good eyeballing "looks like this will work" :hunter:







Heres one fender (very) roughed in. When you look at one of the flares, it looks somewhat subtle, but comparing it to a stock fender makes it a bit more obvious... Im going to try and hide the fact that its flared with a modified pace car spoiler down the road..





Off topic, but heres a few of the cars that have been taking time away from my car...

On our other shop car we did a major engine compartment update... a cleaned up "stock" looking smooth firewall/ wire tuck and a custom wire harness. Also did a little refresh on the Dart 406









Total opposite of the pro-touring style builds I generally prefer, this gasser has to be one of my favorite cars Ive had in the shop. Its a blast to drive!

 

[BBShark]

Heres one fender (very) roughed in. When you look at one of the flares, it looks somewhat subtle, but comparing it to a stock fender makes it a bit more obvious... Im going to try and hide the fact that its flared with a modified pace car spoiler down the road..

That's going to look good. Who made the flares?

 

[vette427sbc]

That's going to look good. Who made the flares?

Thanks! They are Custom Image 2" fronts. The fit is actually very good... Better than I expected

 

[vette427sbc]

Bit more progress... I’ve got my backspace measurements, (18x13 10” backspace!!) so I’m going to leave the fender off and start designing the inner fenders and internal aero pieces. I ordered a few yards of 3k carbon and a gallon of epoxy; Inner fenders, radiator, ps cooler and oil cooler ducting will all be done in carbon fiber.

 

[69427]

Bit more progress... I’ve got my backspace measurements, (18x13 10” backspace!!) so I’m going to leave the fender off and start designing the inner fenders and internal aero pieces. I ordered a few yards of 3k carbon and a gallon of epoxy; Inner fenders, radiator, ps cooler and oil cooler ducting will all be done in carbon fiber.

Ya got my attention here. :thumbs:

 

[mfain]

Bit more progress... I’ve got my backspace measurements, (18x13 10” backspace!!) so I’m going to leave the fender off and start designing the inner fenders and internal aero pieces. I ordered a few yards of 3k carbon and a gallon of epoxy; Inner fenders, radiator, ps cooler and oil cooler ducting will all be done in carbon fiber.

Very nice! That 10" backspace should give you good scrub radius (near zero). Make sure your caster is set - especially if you plan on a lot of caster - before you do your inner fender panel mods. It can make a lot of difference with the wheels turned. I have about the same set-up and I was able to get 28 degrees of turn at full compression - not bad for a track-only car.

Pappy

 

[vette427sbc]

Ya got my attention here. :thumbs:

I made my first test piece of carbon the other day... With all the contours in these parts, I should be able to get away with only 2 layers... Probably 1/3 the thickness of the stock fender liners.
Im also using peel-ply and ended up removing about 30% of the resin that I would have used in a regular lay-up!

Very nice! That 10" backspace should give you good scrub radius (near zero). Make sure your caster is set - especially if you plan on a lot of caster - before you do your inner fender panel mods. It can make a lot of difference with the wheels turned. I have about the same set-up and I was able to get 28 degrees of turn at full compression - not bad for a track-only car.

Pappy

Correct! I believe Ron set me up with a near zero scrub... And good tip on the caster... From all the pictures Ive seen, it seems most bodied race cars keep the tub as close as possible to the tire. Ive got the alignment set, and Im giving myself about 1" of clearance between the tire and the inner tub when the wheel is turned.

Unfortunately I dont think Ill be able to get 28* at full compression, Im looking at about 15* at full compression, and closer to the 28 @ 2" of compression. Im wondering how often Ill be at full lock and full compression though? Maybe an auto cross? Full lock on a road course and I think Ive got other things to worry about :crutches:
Whats your outside tire to tire width?

 

[mfain]

I made my first test piece of carbon the other day... With all the contours in these parts, I should be able to get away with only 2 layers... Probably 1/3 the thickness of the stock fender liners.
Im also using peel-ply and ended up removing about 30% of the resin that I would have used in a regular lay-up!

Whats your outside tire to tire width?

Got any photos of you CF lay-up? My outside to outside tire width in front is 71 inches.

Pappy

 

[vette427sbc]

I just made a (very!) quick shape to see how it was to work with... tight radii held shape better than expected. The tape from my foam mold did not release so I only have the finish from the peel ply, and you can see where there was air bubbles between the PP and fabric. I also got a bit of weave distortion from too much squeegee pressure I think. Second layer is not rotated either...
This is .055" thick and is very rigid where there is 3dimensional structure. More flexibility than needed in the flat sections with no cracking. I think for my use, this (2 layers) is more than strong enough.

 

[69427]

I just made a (very!) quick shape to see how it was to work with... tight radii held shape better than expected. The tape from my foam mold did not release so I only have the finish from the peel ply, and you can see where there was air bubbles between the PP and fabric. I also got a bit of weave distortion from too much squeegee pressure I think. Second layer is not rotated either...
This is .055" thick and is very rigid where there is 3dimensional structure. More flexibility than needed in the flat sections with no cracking. I think for my use, this (2 layers) is more than strong enough.

I'm enjoying seeing what you're doing there. :thumbs: Without bogging you down too much hopefully, can you add in a few details regarding what materials/epoxies/processes the CF needs to setup/cure?

Thanks.

 

[vette427sbc]

This is all new to me, so Im learning as I go, but happy to share my experiences!

I bought everything from www.Fibreglast.com

Carbon fabric:
https://www.fibreglast.com/product/...bric_00530/carbon-fiber-fabric-classic-styles

Resin, I used the 60 minute hardener:
https://www.fibreglast.com/product/System_2000_Epoxy_Resin_2000/Epoxy_Resins

and the peel-ply:
https://www.fibreglast.com/product/econostitch_peel_ply/Vacuum_Bagging_Films_Peel_Ply_Tapes



So far I have learned that I use way too much resin, and that masking tape wont release like it does for fiberglass work. Ive got my radiator exit duct and passenger side gill duct in rough stages now, but Ill be properly bodyworking them and using actual release agents to get a somewhat more professional result. According to the description on the epoxy, the de-molding time is 36 hours @ 77*F

 

[phantomjock]

When you are ready to cut the product after layed up and cured, I used a tile wet saw. [Harbor Freight - Naturally.]

The water helps keep the dust (bad for you and your lungs) way down. The wet swarf is still something to contend with however.

Looking forward to the results.

Nice work!

Cheers - Jim