Lazy-assed Ophra watching good for nothings....

[mrvette]

I dunno I ever posted here about him, but I have a old buddy since HS already, known that man 1/2 a century, he is 2 years younger then me, he is the ONLY GUY I KNOW for any length of time that has done things right over his life.....
he got back from the Navy in late '69, and so due to his health, he pops over one morning, says, 'lets go to Texas'....I was HATING my job, and so went with him the following Monday AM.....
sometime like Jan '70....snowstorm, his '65 Chevy Malibu....I left my car behind...along with most of my shit, at the folks house....

he stayed, went to work with the Teamsters at Miller Brewing, forklift operator, rode that lift forever on the 2nd shift....3-11pm.....put two daughter now approaching age 40, through CPA exams on first crack.....10% of them pass on first crack....so they high up in corporate accounting now, and so are their husbands.....they clock serious cash.....well into 6 digits each...

he lives 3 easy miles from the plant, house on a hill, he is a electronic geek that went krazy with the hobby, much worse than me.....WAY worse....housefull of shit, looks like a CIA watch station....take 3 antenna farms and you get the drift....seriously....

so Miller sold out to SAB....Sourth African Brewing....whoever in hell THEY are, and so broke the union contract.....he is one of only maybe 6 guys under the old contract.....ALL new hires are a max of 32/week, and 15 bux/hour....got applicants lined up down the street for those jobs too.....

Ken just waiting his time to retire, finally, wife was one of the nurses we met up with in the apartments we had in middle of Ft. Worth in '70.....still married, pushing 40 years now.....didn't divide the house twice like I was forced into with 2 ex wives.....that shit sets one back a sad amount....

:hissyfit::hissyfit:

ALL the other guys who made it, or even had a 'normal' life are .gov workers, Feds.....

and damn few of them are 'normal'.....most married/divorced/never married....no kids they acknowledge......some with serious health issues....

:crap::hi:

 

[010752]

I got an application from a 19 year old kid, with income and credit verification, that was making 120 grand a year as an union elevator mechanic or something similar, dad got him the job.

The union is great for him obviously, but that just doesn't seem to be the norm for a lay person. Without a union, never heard of that income rate at that age.

 

[big2bird]

I got an application from a 19 year old kid, with income and credit verification, that was making 120 grand a year as an union elevator mechanic or something similar, dad got him the job.

The union is great for him obviously, but that just doesn't seem to be the norm for a lay person. Without a union, never heard of that income rate at that age.

He worked an insane amount of hours to get that pay, I can assure you.
He didn't get that kind of money sitting on the bench.

 

[mrvette]

I got an application from a 19 year old kid, with income and credit verification, that was making 120 grand a year as an union elevator mechanic or something similar, dad got him the job.

The union is great for him obviously, but that just doesn't seem to be the norm for a lay person. Without a union, never heard of that income rate at that age.

He worked an insane amount of hours to get that pay, I can assure you.
He didn't get that kind of money sitting on the bench.

Got THAT right, makes me wonder what happened, hell of a downer for one so elevated.......:clap::sweat:

 

[TimAT]

The best year I've had in big airplanes was $103k. I'll tell you, I LIVED at the airport. Took all the OT offered, and then some- I was even showing up on "normal" days off, talking to the manager, and he'd always ask me to stay. First day off was 1-1/2 and second day off was double time. And that was even doing all the 4 early and 4 late I could get too.
Then the company laid some guys off and started mandatory overtime. They had to look me in the eye and tell me I was doing OT.
It was not the Union that brought the company down- it was the upper management trying to feather their nest.

 

[elevatordude]

I got an application from a 19 year old kid, with income and credit verification, that was making 120 grand a year as an union elevator mechanic or something similar, dad got him the job.

The union is great for him obviously, but that just doesn't seem to be the norm for a lay person. Without a union, never heard of that income rate at that age.

There is a 5 year apprentice program before you can sit for your elevator license. Also Fl rate isn't that high. Something is very wrong with his stats. That is close to my rate at 26 years and ajusters rate.

 

[010752]

Ya, I didn't consider any OT, plus a lot of string pulling from the father, or he just faked the docs.
Either way, there is no way a 19 year old kid working for a company should be pulling near that kind of money, unless he's a neurosurgeon or similar.

Back in the 70's, I worked for a company that did work in many states, they were set up for union work and non union in the right to work states. I did the field bookwork, and there sure was a big, big difference between the two, all the crews had the same experience.
In other words, same finished product, cost almost twice as much.

 

[big_G]

Ya, I didn't consider any OT, plus a lot of string pulling from the father, or he just faked the docs.
Either way, there is no way a 19 year old kid working for a company should be pulling near that kind of money, unless he's a neurosurgeon or similar.

Back in the 70's, I worked for a company that did work in many states, they were set up for union work and non union in the right to work states. I did the field bookwork, and there sure was a big, big difference between the two, all the crews had the same experience.
In other words, same finished product, cost almost twice as much.

Many years ago, the computer co. I worked for wanted to set up a display at the Javits Center in NYC. The corporate honchos balked at the incredible costs just to set up 1 booth. The display had to be picked up at our business by a union driver. Truck unloaded by a union driver. Once inside the convention center, only union workers could set it up. The lighting, including plugging in the calculators and all of the desk-top computers had to be plugged in by...Drum-roll please....more union employees. When all was said and done, all we could do was sit in the booth and talk to potential customers. Then when tear-down time came...all the union workers lined up to un-plug things and load the vans. And you wonder why unions are dwindling and getting bashed?..I will say that in the early 20th century, before EEOC, OSHA, and the great govt. bureaucracies took over, unions were necessary. Maybe not so much today.

 

[damoroso]

Simply put, unions add cost. That doesn't mean they don't add value, however, but the value added rarely equals the cost increase. I say this from many years experience working with union work forces in both the public and private sector. What most people miss is things like the legacy cost of a union work force, the benefit cost of that same work force, and the cost of some of the work rules imposed (Yes by negotiation via the CBA) and the cost of admisitration of the work force. What I find most interesting, is where do unions think the money to pay for "demands" in a negoiation come from? The companies bottom line? No, the money comes from product or service price increases which in turn can make company less competative. Additionally, when it comes to things like down sizing or lay offs, because of the "work rules", typically, less expensive employees get laid off first, which means more employees get laid off, leaving less people to do the work, at a much higher cost. What you typically need is a mix of a junior and senior work force. See the spiral you can get into?

When an organized company has COOPERATIVE negotiations with a union, things can be better. Ford did that and that's one of the reasons they didn't need the same bail out GM did. Again though, why do we need unions? If a company or a builder for instance doesn't provide a good or reliable service or product, wouldn't the market take care of that because people wouldn't buy from them? And doesn't the DOL/OSHA/EPA and the plethra of other government agencies protect workers and the environment (criminal behavior not withstanding).

 

[mrvette]

Ya, I didn't consider any OT, plus a lot of string pulling from the father, or he just faked the docs.
Either way, there is no way a 19 year old kid working for a company should be pulling near that kind of money, unless he's a neurosurgeon or similar.

Back in the 70's, I worked for a company that did work in many states, they were set up for union work and non union in the right to work states. I did the field bookwork, and there sure was a big, big difference between the two, all the crews had the same experience.
In other words, same finished product, cost almost twice as much.

Many years ago, the computer co. I worked for wanted to set up a display at the Javits Center in NYC. The corporate honchos balked at the incredible costs just to set up 1 booth. The display had to be picked up at our business by a union driver. Truck unloaded by a union driver. Once inside the convention center, only union workers could set it up. The lighting, including plugging in the calculators and all of the desk-top computers had to be plugged in by...Drum-roll please....more union employees. When all was said and done, all we could do was sit in the booth and talk to potential customers. Then when tear-down time came...all the union workers lined up to un-plug things and load the vans. And you wonder why unions are dwindling and getting bashed?..I will say that in the early 20th century, before EEOC, OSHA, and the great govt. bureaucracies took over, unions were necessary. Maybe not so much today.

I remember being a field tech rep for a small security systems manufacturer....and a trade show we showed up at in Wash Dc.....local for us....located in the Md. burbs.....and so during the install part, we/I walked in and set up the show, come tear down, I just took the gear apart, we loaded into a van and got all SORTS of stares for doing it....found out later the electricians unions should have done it.....stuff was on the vater and heading for the loading dock....some goon tried to stop me, I just turned and said JOB DONE....no sweat man.....

set up maybe 2 hours at most.....tear down 30 minits, in the truck and gawn....

:yahoo:

 

[Beagle 1]

"You don't think giving 2-3 million people 13 months of additional unemployment is going to pay off when Obama wants them to vote for him in 2 years? We'll have to wait and see but I would put money on it![/QUOTE]

The people who will vote for Obama will vote for him no matter what. Giving someone a unemployment extension won't change anyone's mind who knows who is ruining this country.
There will always be parasite voters and politicans who will minipulate the working man. If no one is working and making a decent wage, who is going to buy all the crap that needs to be sold to keep this country going?
You'd be surprised how many union members vote Republican.

 

[mrvette]

"You don't think giving 2-3 million people 13 months of additional unemployment is going to pay off when Obama wants them to vote for him in 2 years? We'll have to wait and see but I would put money on it!

The people who will vote for Obama will vote for him no matter what. Giving someone a unemployment extension won't change anyone's mind who knows who is ruining this country.
There will always be parasite voters and politicans who will minipulate the working man. If no one is working and making a decent wage, who is going to buy all the crap that needs to be sold to keep this country going?
You'd be surprised how many union members vote Republican.[/QUOTE]


Out of my personal friends over the years, maybe a dozen or so union men....and out of them, only one tends to vote Do Mo Crap.....the rest are Republicans, in spite of the union positions......

which I have found rather strange, and just figgered it was just me or whatever statistical standard area I was in....crap shoot in other words....

makes me wonder to hear that though....:bonkers::flash:

 

[big_G]

You don't think giving 2-3 million people 13 months of additional unemployment is going to pay off when Obama wants them to vote for him in 2 years? We'll have to wait and see but I would put money on it!

The people who will vote for Obama will vote for him no matter what. Giving someone a unemployment extension won't change anyone's mind who knows who is ruining this country.
There will always be parasite voters and politicans who will minipulate the working man. If no one is working and making a decent wage, who is going to buy all the crap that needs to be sold to keep this country going?
You'd be surprised how many union members vote Republican.

And do they complain to the union bosses that their dues go only to the Democratic party?

 

[mrvette]

You don't think giving 2-3 million people 13 months of additional unemployment is going to pay off when Obama wants them to vote for him in 2 years? We'll have to wait and see but I would put money on it!

The people who will vote for Obama will vote for him no matter what. Giving someone a unemployment extension won't change anyone's mind who knows who is ruining this country.
There will always be parasite voters and politicans who will minipulate the working man. If no one is working and making a decent wage, who is going to buy all the crap that needs to be sold to keep this country going?
You'd be surprised how many union members vote Republican.

And do they complain to the union bosses that their dues go only to the Democratic party?

I asked that question many times, and the universal reply is they have NO input on that, the bosses do what they want.....

:hissyfit:

 

[damoroso]

You don't think giving 2-3 million people 13 months of additional unemployment is going to pay off when Obama wants them to vote for him in 2 years? We'll have to wait and see but I would put money on it!

The people who will vote for Obama will vote for him no matter what. Giving someone a unemployment extension won't change anyone's mind who knows who is ruining this country.
There will always be parasite voters and politicans who will minipulate the working man. If no one is working and making a decent wage, who is going to buy all the crap that needs to be sold to keep this country going?
You'd be surprised how many union members vote Republican.

And do they complain to the union bosses that their dues go only to the Democratic party?

I think like the rest of the country, union folks are waking up politically too. It's not really as important what party someone belongs to, but the person themselves. Let's face it, both the Republicans and Demcrats have grown governemnt, grown debt, reduced individual responsibilties, reduced personal liberties and moved more towards the "Nanny State". Both sides have contributed to jobs going overseas (that's a whole other discussion!!), and neither side is honest when dealing with the public.

We have to vote people into office who first are honest, second, put this country first, and third are working for us. Then we have to hold them accountable. If they don't do as they said, vote them out of office the next cycle. Union members are seeing that too, though their leadership is playing a different game all together. Union leadership is in it for one thing. Themselves. Not the members, and I think the members are seeing that. It's up to them to fix the unions. Hopefully they'll see they don't need unions...it's a waste of their time and money.

 

[big2bird]

Many years ago, the computer co. I worked for wanted to set up a display at the Javits Center in NYC. The corporate honchos balked at the incredible costs just to set up 1 booth. The display had to be picked up at our business by a union driver. Truck unloaded by a union driver. Once inside the convention center, only union workers could set it up. The lighting, including plugging in the calculators and all of the desk-top computers had to be plugged in by...Drum-roll please....more union employees. When all was said and done, all we could do was sit in the booth and talk to potential customers. Then when tear-down time came...all the union workers lined up to un-plug things and load the vans. And you wonder why unions are dwindling and getting bashed?..I will say that in the early 20th century, before EEOC, OSHA, and the great govt. bureaucracies took over, unions were necessary. Maybe not so much today.

This is the trade show companies gouging, not the unions. This is the business I am in at this time. The company I work for charges more than twice per hour for me that the construction industry did.
The trade show electricians have to balance the load in all booths to enable the system to work, as the wiring is greatly different from permanent wiring.
This is a requirement of the fire marshall, not the union.
Once again, this is "union bashing" as a scapegoat.
The non-union trade show companies charge the same rates, and just pocket MORE profit, and you guys buy right into it.
Blizz con, just this year, was convinced it was union labor that was costing them so much.
They did the show with another outfit, rented their own equipment, and installed the show.
The show cost the same, was riddled with problems, and the tear out was insane because the non union forklift operators did all their own loading before they would touch blizzards loads.
Right after the show, they resigned a 2 year contract with us.
They learned to hard way, but you will never hear about the positive aspects of what we do. JUST the negatives.

 

[big2bird]

Union leadership is in it for one thing. Themselves. Not the members, and I think the members are seeing that. It's up to them to fix the unions. Hopefully they'll see they don't need unions...it's a waste of their time and money.

If we abolished unions tomarrow, corporate America would fuck and enslave the entire working class.
The "company store" mentality would pop right back, and the middle class would disappear forever.

I have had this discussion with my best friend for years.
He was an iron worker, non union, and I was a union sparky.
He boasted he made the same $$, had a 401K and health benefits.
WHEN his boss got a divorce, he took all their 401K money, and went to the Caymen islands. Fucked the whole lot of them.
If he was union, that money would not have been touched.
Without a voice in govt, equal to corporate america, the balance of power would shift towards corporations like Wal Mart, that just walk all over the common guy.

 

[mrvette]

Union leadership is in it for one thing. Themselves. Not the members, and I think the members are seeing that. It's up to them to fix the unions. Hopefully they'll see they don't need unions...it's a waste of their time and money.

If we abolished unions tomarrow, corporate America would fuck and enslave the entire working class.
The "company store" mentality would pop right back, and the middle class would disappear forever.

I have had this discussion with my best friend for years.
He was an iron worker, non union, and I was a union sparky.
He boasted he made the same $$, had a 401K and health benefits.
WHEN his boss got a divorce, he took all their 401K money, and went to the Caymen islands. Fucked the whole lot of them.
If he was union, that money would not have been touched.
Without a voice in govt, equal to corporate america, the balance of power would shift towards corporations like Wal Mart, that just walk all over the common guy.

I see both sides of the issue, really....course I never worked for any company that had any bene's what so ever....maybe health insurance, but I not had any of that since '90.....except just recently SS/medicrap....

:gurney::evil:

 

[big2bird]

Gene,
The funny thing that I see here, and know for a fact is, I know both union and non union electricains.
The union ones are either working part time, or have taken early retirement, and are collecting the money they earned, or are paying into the system.
The non union guys are the ones collecting that unemployment that the feds extended, the very ones that G started this thread about.
Of course their non-union bosses are crying too, even though they charge the same amounts per hour. :tth:

 

[big_G]

I'm not buying into that. So with your logic, if we abolished the UAW tomorrow, the big 3 would screw their employees?..You believe that?....How do all of the import car makers (BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota) that have non-union facilities here keep employees then? I bet they are very happy with their pay and bennies. And about Wal-mart....no one forced people to work for them. If you ask them, many will say they like their jobs. If enough of them didn't, Wal-mart would have no choice but to make improvements or disappear. In the "right to work" states, (where there are very few unions) what keeps the non-union companies from treating the employees poorly? I think market pressure takes care of these situations.