Lazy-assed Ophra watching good for nothings....

[mrvette]

So I am going to post my full story here, and let it go.
I have been in construction 33 years. All the buildings I built were paid entirely by the developer, not subsidised by taxpayers. I have ins, a pension, and have never collected unemployment longer than the 26 weeks I get paid for. I will never need assitence from the govt.
I own a home that I can afford, and pay taxes to educate millions of illegals that never have paid into the system.
I am on unemployment till Jan 15th, when the next show starts. This is paid by my employer gleefully, as he knows I will return to work as apart of the workpool. This cost is passsed onto the participants in trade shows, as high fees. Since trade shows are not 365 days a year, it has to come from somewhere.
They can't just put us in the freezer untill the next show.
It is just enough for food, and I pay taxes on it too. The mortgage comes from savings during this time.
While I am off, instead of Oprah, I borrowed against MY annuity to improve my home, and stimulate the economy. I pay MYSELF back the loan, and pay MYSELF back the interest. Pretty cool,huh?
Meanwhile, while off, instaed of doing side jobs to feed the family, and paying no taxes, I am doing my own work instead of hiring illegal workers.
Yesterday, at age 55, I rented a compressor and jackhammer, and ran the dam thing 8 hrs. I hurt all over, but I can still do it. I used my time to do my own work, pay the rental guy, pay for fuel, pay dump fees, and improve my home so I can pay more property taxes, and educate yet more illegals.
I was not mooching off the system, but contributing toward society in many ways.
I hope I can make it to retirement, and just enjoy life in my golden years knowing I earned it. I will live in my home that I have paid off, or maybe some place like Arizone. Certainly not a shithole like Texas. :yahoo: (Sorry G)

Dude, you realize you're more the exception than the rule? An awful lot of guys in your position would be gaming the system, especially in the land of fruits and nuts!! Funny, as a union guy and a non-union guy I think we're alot closer on issues than you'd think.

Oh and I wouldn't be so quick to bash Texas. I spend alot of time there and find the folks there friendly, the food good, and the women are really, really atractive and friendly too!! Plus don't compare the cost of living between CA and TX...it'll make you sick, especially when you look at retirement!! :shocking:

I dunno guys, I pay 700/year in prop taxes.....7% sales tax, and NO INCOME TAX......I dunno what the sales tax in Texas is, but my buddy in Ft. Worth pays like 4500/year in PROP taxes....house is maybe 10% larger than mine....same deal in other respects.........Im sure that belatedly painting my roof WHITE will knock a easy 50/month off the electric in summer which is 7 months/year...but really now....Jeff, shame your wife won't do Florida....
this hood here is same/better than the one outside DC I had....no complaints there....

:thumbs::tomato:

 

[big_G]

So I am going to post my full story here, and let it go.
I have been in construction 33 years. All the buildings I built were paid entirely by the developer, not subsidised by taxpayers. I have ins, a pension, and have never collected unemployment longer than the 26 weeks I get paid for. I will never need assitence from the govt.
I own a home that I can afford, and pay taxes to educate millions of illegals that never have paid into the system.
I am on unemployment till Jan 15th, when the next show starts. This is paid by my employer gleefully, as he knows I will return to work as apart of the workpool. This cost is passsed onto the participants in trade shows, as high fees. Since trade shows are not 365 days a year, it has to come from somewhere.
They can't just put us in the freezer untill the next show.
It is just enough for food, and I pay taxes on it too. The mortgage comes from savings during this time.
While I am off, instead of Oprah, I borrowed against MY annuity to improve my home, and stimulate the economy. I pay MYSELF back the loan, and pay MYSELF back the interest. Pretty cool,huh?
Meanwhile, while off, instaed of doing side jobs to feed the family, and paying no taxes, I am doing my own work instead of hiring illegal workers.
Yesterday, at age 55, I rented a compressor and jackhammer, and ran the dam thing 8 hrs. I hurt all over, but I can still do it. I used my time to do my own work, pay the rental guy, pay for fuel, pay dump fees, and improve my home so I can pay more property taxes, and educate yet more illegals.
I was not mooching off the system, but contributing toward society in many ways.
I hope I can make it to retirement, and just enjoy life in my golden years knowing I earned it. I will live in my home that I have paid off, or maybe some place like Arizone. Certainly not a shithole like Texas. :yahoo: (Sorry G)

Dude, you realize you're more the exception than the rule? An awful lot of guys in your position would be gaming the system, especially in the land of fruits and nuts!! Funny, as a union guy and a non-union guy I think we're alot closer on issues than you'd think.

Oh and I wouldn't be so quick to bash Texas. I spend alot of time there and find the folks there friendly, the food good, and the women are really, really atractive and friendly too!! Plus don't compare the cost of living between CA and TX...it'll make you sick, especially when you look at retirement!! :shocking:

I dunno guys, I pay 700/year in prop taxes.....7% sales tax, and NO INCOME TAX......I dunno what the sales tax in Texas is, but my buddy in Ft. Worth pays like 4500/year in PROP taxes....house is maybe 10% larger than mine....same deal in other respects.........Im sure that belatedly painting my roof WHITE will knock a easy 50/month off the electric in summer which is 7 months/year...but really now....Jeff, shame your wife won't do Florida....
this hood here is same/better than the one outside DC I had....no complaints there....

:thumbs::tomato:

Sales tax where I live (suburb of Austin) are 8.25%. No state income taxes, but my property taxes are $10,000/year. :smash::smash::sos:

 

[mrvette]

So I am going to post my full story here, and let it go.
I have been in construction 33 years. All the buildings I built were paid entirely by the developer, not subsidised by taxpayers. I have ins, a pension, and have never collected unemployment longer than the 26 weeks I get paid for. I will never need assitence from the govt.
I own a home that I can afford, and pay taxes to educate millions of illegals that never have paid into the system.
I am on unemployment till Jan 15th, when the next show starts. This is paid by my employer gleefully, as he knows I will return to work as apart of the workpool. This cost is passsed onto the participants in trade shows, as high fees. Since trade shows are not 365 days a year, it has to come from somewhere.
They can't just put us in the freezer untill the next show.
It is just enough for food, and I pay taxes on it too. The mortgage comes from savings during this time.
While I am off, instead of Oprah, I borrowed against MY annuity to improve my home, and stimulate the economy. I pay MYSELF back the loan, and pay MYSELF back the interest. Pretty cool,huh?
Meanwhile, while off, instaed of doing side jobs to feed the family, and paying no taxes, I am doing my own work instead of hiring illegal workers.
Yesterday, at age 55, I rented a compressor and jackhammer, and ran the dam thing 8 hrs. I hurt all over, but I can still do it. I used my time to do my own work, pay the rental guy, pay for fuel, pay dump fees, and improve my home so I can pay more property taxes, and educate yet more illegals.
I was not mooching off the system, but contributing toward society in many ways.
I hope I can make it to retirement, and just enjoy life in my golden years knowing I earned it. I will live in my home that I have paid off, or maybe some place like Arizone. Certainly not a shithole like Texas. :yahoo: (Sorry G)

Dude, you realize you're more the exception than the rule? An awful lot of guys in your position would be gaming the system, especially in the land of fruits and nuts!! Funny, as a union guy and a non-union guy I think we're alot closer on issues than you'd think.

Oh and I wouldn't be so quick to bash Texas. I spend alot of time there and find the folks there friendly, the food good, and the women are really, really atractive and friendly too!! Plus don't compare the cost of living between CA and TX...it'll make you sick, especially when you look at retirement!! :shocking:

I dunno guys, I pay 700/year in prop taxes.....7% sales tax, and NO INCOME TAX......I dunno what the sales tax in Texas is, but my buddy in Ft. Worth pays like 4500/year in PROP taxes....house is maybe 10% larger than mine....same deal in other respects.........Im sure that belatedly painting my roof WHITE will knock a easy 50/month off the electric in summer which is 7 months/year...but really now....Jeff, shame your wife won't do Florida....
this hood here is same/better than the one outside DC I had....no complaints there....

:thumbs::tomato:

Sales tax where I live (suburb of Austin) are 8.25%. No state income taxes, but my property taxes are $10,000/year. :smash::smash::sos:

U pay more in a MONTH then I do in a YEAR!!!.....Jesus.....:bomb::kissass:

 

[big_G]

So I am going to post my full story here, and let it go.
I have been in construction 33 years. All the buildings I built were paid entirely by the developer, not subsidised by taxpayers. I have ins, a pension, and have never collected unemployment longer than the 26 weeks I get paid for. I will never need assitence from the govt.
I own a home that I can afford, and pay taxes to educate millions of illegals that never have paid into the system.
I am on unemployment till Jan 15th, when the next show starts. This is paid by my employer gleefully, as he knows I will return to work as apart of the workpool. This cost is passsed onto the participants in trade shows, as high fees. Since trade shows are not 365 days a year, it has to come from somewhere.
They can't just put us in the freezer untill the next show.
It is just enough for food, and I pay taxes on it too. The mortgage comes from savings during this time.
While I am off, instead of Oprah, I borrowed against MY annuity to improve my home, and stimulate the economy. I pay MYSELF back the loan, and pay MYSELF back the interest. Pretty cool,huh?
Meanwhile, while off, instaed of doing side jobs to feed the family, and paying no taxes, I am doing my own work instead of hiring illegal workers.
Yesterday, at age 55, I rented a compressor and jackhammer, and ran the dam thing 8 hrs. I hurt all over, but I can still do it. I used my time to do my own work, pay the rental guy, pay for fuel, pay dump fees, and improve my home so I can pay more property taxes, and educate yet more illegals.
I was not mooching off the system, but contributing toward society in many ways.
I hope I can make it to retirement, and just enjoy life in my golden years knowing I earned it. I will live in my home that I have paid off, or maybe some place like Arizone. Certainly not a shithole like Texas. :yahoo: (Sorry G)

Dude, you realize you're more the exception than the rule? An awful lot of guys in your position would be gaming the system, especially in the land of fruits and nuts!! Funny, as a union guy and a non-union guy I think we're alot closer on issues than you'd think.

Oh and I wouldn't be so quick to bash Texas. I spend alot of time there and find the folks there friendly, the food good, and the women are really, really atractive and friendly too!! Plus don't compare the cost of living between CA and TX...it'll make you sick, especially when you look at retirement!! :shocking:

I dunno guys, I pay 700/year in prop taxes.....7% sales tax, and NO INCOME TAX......I dunno what the sales tax in Texas is, but my buddy in Ft. Worth pays like 4500/year in PROP taxes....house is maybe 10% larger than mine....same deal in other respects.........Im sure that belatedly painting my roof WHITE will knock a easy 50/month off the electric in summer which is 7 months/year...but really now....Jeff, shame your wife won't do Florida....
this hood here is same/better than the one outside DC I had....no complaints there....

:thumbs::tomato:

Sales tax where I live (suburb of Austin) are 8.25%. No state income taxes, but my property taxes are $10,000/year. :smash::smash::sos:

U pay more in a MONTH then I do in a YEAR!!!.....Jesus.....:bomb::kissass:

Don't need to remind me.:crutches:

 

[BBShark]

I'm not buying into that. So with your logic, if we abolished the UAW tomorrow, the big 3 would screw their employees?..You believe that?...

What I AM saying is if that happened tomarrow, their prices of cars would not go down 1 fucking nickel. I bet you $1000 on that one.
I have seen it in housing, retail stores, and large corporations.
They go non union, and its staus quo, but profit margin goes up.
The money just shifts from employees to stockholders.

Any idea what legacy cost adds to the cost of a vehicle? Maybe cars isn't the best example.

$1,600 per vehicle. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_19/b3932001_mz001.htm

$1,600 is the legacy cost (retired former employees). The labor cost to build a car is quoted by the UAW at 10%. The actual cost is closer to 17% because the cost to assemble a car is only part of the cost (sub-assemblies have their own labor cost).

The advantage that Toyota and the other foreign companies have is that they have very little legacy cost because they have relatively few retirees. So, even cutting UAW wages to a fraction of what they are now, would not result in any savings over the import manufacturers.

I will live in my home that I have paid off, or maybe some place like Arizone. Certainly not a shithole like Texas. :yahoo: (Sorry G)

It's all good, I love where I live, but the taxes are killing me. I would never consider Az, but Florida would work. The wife want's no part of it, but I can't afford to live near Austin for my retirement .:smash:

Jeff, have you ever been to Austin? It's one of my favorite cities in the country. I would retire there in a heartbeat.

 

[Beagle 1]

If we abolished unions tomarrow, corporate America would fuck and enslave the entire working class.
The "company store" mentality would pop right back, and the middle class would disappear forever.

100% correct!!!
I realize there are some problems with unions, and some problem unions, but they are the only hope for the working man. Just listen to some of the coments here.
IF, and a big IF here, employers had a conscience and some morals, we wouldn't need them, but unfortunately most of us are greedy and will fuck our brothers as fast as possible.

 

[damoroso]

If we abolished unions tomarrow, corporate America would fuck and enslave the entire working class.
The "company store" mentality would pop right back, and the middle class would disappear forever.

100% correct!!!
I realize there are some problems with unions, and some problem unions, but they are the only hope for the working man. Just listen to some of the coments here.
IF, and a big IF here, employers had a conscience and some morals, we wouldn't need them, but unfortunately most of us are greedy and will fuck our brothers as fast as possible.

:bs: Again...there are many, many federal laws/regulations that prohibit that from happening. This isn't 1903 any more. Ever heard of wrongfull termination, sexual harassment, favoritism or violating affermative action? Those things and many, many others apply to EVERYONE, not just unions. Believe me, it's part of what I do, so save the party line that unions are the savior of the working man. It was the case probably even 50 years ago, but now, that's no longer the case.

The thought that the evil companies can run over the poor working man and do anything they want is simply not true. And by the way, most good reputable companies have learned that employees when treated right become an asset that makes the company stronger and more competative. It's called being an empolyer of choice. Companys typically get that way by providing better than average pay, benefits and working conditions. Sure there are those companies that suck, Wally World being at the top of my list, but still people choose to work for them and buy from them, it's their decision. Like I said, I won't set foot in one of those places, and as I'm sure you've noticed, I'm not exactly pro union...:drink:

 

[010752]

If we abolished unions tomarrow, corporate America would fuck and enslave the entire working class.
The "company store" mentality would pop right back, and the middle class would disappear forever.

100% correct!!!
I realize there are some problems with unions, and some problem unions, but they are the only hope for the working man. Just listen to some of the coments here.
IF, and a big IF here, employers had a conscience and some morals, we wouldn't need them, but unfortunately most of us are greedy and will fuck our brothers as fast as possible.

:bs: Again...there are many, many federal laws/regulations that prohibit that from happening. This isn't 1903 any more. Ever heard of wrongfull termination, sexual harassment, favoritism or violating affermative action? Those things and many, many others apply to EVERYONE, not just unions. Believe me, it's part of what I do, so save the party line that unions are the savior of the working man. It was the case probably even 50 years ago, but now, that's no longer the case.

The thought that the evil companies can run over the poor working man and do anything they want is simply not true. And by the way, most good reputable companies have learned that employees when treated right become an asset that makes the company stronger and more competative. It's called being an empolyer of choice. Companys typically get that way by providing better than average pay, benefits and working conditions. Sure there are those companies that suck, Wally World being at the top of my list, but still people choose to work for them and buy from them, it's their decision. Like I said, I won't set foot in one of those places, and as I'm sure you've noticed, I'm not exactly pro union...:drink:

I see you are in Florida.
It's perfectly legal to terminate someone for NO REASON WHATSOEVER, it's fact you are better off just saying, you are done and that's it. (And considering Florida as a whole it's a good thing here).

Unions do prevent this from happening.

 

[GT6Steve]

Nevada is a Fire-at-Will state as well and it virtually never happens. There are too many fallbacks these days for the employee to appeal. HR will have their case made before someone is fired. (Talking industry, can't say what happens in casinos).

Nevada is set to up unemployment taxes on businesses by 50 percent to support the unemployment payouts. That's 178$ extra per employee for a business to pay. How many jobs is that going to eliminate?

 

[mrvette]

Nevada is a Fire-at-Will state as well and it virtually never happens. There are too many fallbacks these days for the employee to appeal. HR will have their case made before someone is fired. (Talking industry, can't say what happens in casinos).

Nevada is set to up unemployment taxes on businesses by 50 percent to support the unemployment payouts. That's 178$ extra per employee for a business to pay. How many jobs is that going to eliminate?

OK, is that 200 bux peer MONTH, Year, or WEEK, or 2 weeks???

I suspect annual, that ain't shit....

but like anything retail.....you got no customers, you got no revenue, and you flat don't need the help....

doubtful that 200 extra enters much into the equation....

:bonkers::crylol:

 

[big2bird]

The thought that the evil companies can run over the poor working man and do anything they want is simply not true. And by the way, most good reputable companies have learned that employees when treated right become an asset that makes the company stronger and more competative. It's called being an empolyer of choice. Companys typically get that way by providing better than average pay, benefits and working conditions. Sure there are those companies that suck, Wally World being at the top of my list, but still people choose to work for them and buy from them, it's their decision. Like I said, I won't set foot in one of those places, and as I'm sure you've noticed, I'm not exactly pro union...:drink:

I can only give the construction industry aspect.
My friend that was in rebar was not the only account. I have talked to so many non union construction personnel that have been fucked by contractors, I do not know where to begin.
1)Red lining
2)Checks not cashing
3)Fired for no reason
4)Health benies not paid
5)Straight time pay for overtime
6)Annuities stolen
7)Forced to supply their own power tools
8)Not paid fuel/milage
9)Stringing their pay along weeks, then going bankrupt.
10)Lease back of vehicles
11)Backcharged for broken equipment
12)Workmans comp ins not paid
13)Paid cash/no taxes
14)Hours banked instead of pay

As for wrongfull termination, affirmative action, etc, protecting us. BS. I ran union jobs for 25 years all over So Cal. I never needed a reason, I just said we were cutting back manpower, and picked whomever I wanted.
There are work arounds for any rule like that.
(Yes, if they were a slacker, they were GONE).
I was never brought up on charges/grievences.

 

[big2bird]

Unions do prevent this from happening.

Sorry Noonie, but not in my union. I can spin a guy from the hall for no reason, and I can lay off a man anytime I want.
"Reduction of force" is all I need.

 

[big2bird]

Unions work for my field guys, and I can argue it all day.
When a job comes up, the contractor can call the hall, and get as many or few men as he needs, do the job, and toss them back when done.
All the union contractors share the same pool, and get qualified men without having to worry about keeping their guys busy enough to hang around.
If they are slackers, they get sent back, and eventually quit.
If they are good, they stay busy.
If a refinery blows up, off we go. Usually right after some "so called " electricians "fixed" something.:rofl:

 

[Beagle 1]

":bs: Again...there are many, many federal laws/regulations that prohibit that from happening. This isn't 1903 any more. Ever heard of wrongfull termination, sexual harassment, favoritism or violating affermative action? Those things and many, many others apply to EVERYONE, not just unions. Believe me, it's part of what I do, so save the party line that unions are the savior of the working man. It was the case probably even 50 years ago, but now, that's no longer the case.

The thought that the evil companies can run over the poor working man and do anything they want is simply not true. And by the way, most good reputable companies have learned that employees when treated right become an asset that makes the company stronger and more competative. It's called being an empolyer of choice. Companys typically get that way by providing better than average pay, benefits and working conditions. Sure there are those companies that suck, Wally World being at the top of my list, but still people choose to work for them and buy from them, it's their decision. Like I said, I won't set foot in one of those places, and as I'm sure you've noticed, I'm not exactly pro union...:drink:[/QUOTE]

What color the sky is in your world? Even here in Kalifornia, especially with the curent economy and MILLIONS of illegals, most people have little or no recorse to illegal disaplinary action. Yea, a few cases go to court with some scum sucking lawyer, but most don't. The gov't won't help, you have to file a law suit yourself. And usually the lawer wants $25k or more in advance. It all sounds good to file a complaint or go sue some company, but in reality, it just isn't financially fiesable. They have lawyers on staff that can drag things out for years.
It's kind of like OSHA protecting us. I worked over 25 years in comercial/industrial construction and I saw OSHA on the job 3 times. 2 times AFTER a death, and 1 scheduled inspection. They possibly came out over a complaint, but they gave the job a 3 day advance notice. You should have seen all the saftey related work in those 3 days. No one knows the outcome of the visit, but I doubt that they got much of a fine, if any at all.
There ARE some companys that do treat their people right and do get respect and loyalty in return, but their number is dwindling every day.

 

[big_G]

Just the facts: Less than 9% of the public sector employees belong to some kind of union. This number is continuing it's downward slide since 1981. I believe stronger government regulation is the reason. BTW, I did not start this thread with the intention of bashing union workers, just to vent frustration over Obama and Congress raising the total unemployment pay-out for 3 years.

 

[mrvette]

Unions work for my field guys, and I can argue it all day.
When a job comes up, the contractor can call the hall, and get as many or few men as he needs, do the job, and toss them back when done.
All the union contractors share the same pool, and get qualified men without having to worry about keeping their guys busy enough to hang around.
If they are slackers, they get sent back, and eventually quit.
If they are good, they stay busy.
If a refinery blows up, off we go. Usually right after some "so called " electricians "fixed" something.:rofl:

THAT just about matches my UNION welder buddy's words exactly here, boilermakers.....steam fitters...whatever....pipe welders....

:yahoo:

Oh edit...there is another buddy that is in same union hall, he can't seem to pass a welder's test to the UNION spec to get it right, enough they can send him on a job and not get killed over it....pass X ray.....so he is a fitter, not a welder.....damn if I know more than that, just recall the terms used....

 

[010752]

As I said, in Florida you can terminate anyone "without a reason". That is a lot different than than breaking Federal laws for "the wrong reason".

Osha seldom shows up, but their rules have to be followed and FYI it's your insurance companies, inspectors and auditors that enforce the rules, don't have your safety meetings documented, have unsafe conditions, didn't get employees to sign the MSDS info, you'll either get cancelled or pay huge premiums. OSHA doesn't have to show up until it's too late.

And Bird, years ago grievances were a big time waster, if you sent anyone back.
As far as shakey work, everything gets inspected here by the county, union or not, so it's really not an issue here anymore.
Lots more enforcement for local revenue these days.

 

[damoroso]

Guys, I'm really not trying to bash unions, my only point in all of this is that there is recourse for employees who are treated wrongly by their employers and that there are many many provisions in federal labor law to protect them, without a union. However, most people don't seem to know that. I think that's why people think they have to have a union to protect them from those evil company bastards!

All someone has to do is go to the labor board and file on that employer. There will be a ruling and at best (for the employee), the employee will have to be reinstated. At worst, the employee will get unemployment benefits (the employeer has to pay most of that by the way at least for the first 26 weeks) but most companies will settle with and employee if a suit is brought. Why? Cause it's cheaper because the employee will usually win (the courts will side with the employee unless the employer has air tight documentation....most do not!) or it'll be so damned expensive to go to court, the company cuts it's losses and pays the settlement. By the way, if an employee wins a wrongful termination suit, gets reinstated and the employeer takes any disciplinary action towards them, it's called retaliation and can (and has) result in a very healthy settlement for the employee...again.

Without a union, people have to stand up for themselves, they don't have a steward do if for them.

I've managed workforces from 10 - 750 people. The most imporant staff position to me is always my HR manager. Why? Cause they're the ones who make sure we follow the labor laws. Without a good workforce, the company can not survive, have long term profitability, grow or expand.

This horse has been beat to the point it's about in glue bottles on the shelf! Merry Christmas to all...you union guys too!!!

Speaking of "What color is the sky on your planet?", that's rich coming from Kalifornia!!! :lol: