Plastic Fantastic 2

Twin_Turbo said:
That looks like pier paolos irs
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and never used it, built it for the C3 that's my avatar but then sold it and bought PF2. still have the bits, however, I cut them out of too-thick steel so they've become random scrap to use for other projects.

been a day since you've been around, welcome back.
 
SBG -

Thanks for the links - looks like you're right on the brake cooling NACA duct in the roof - not a wing section.
Nice optical illusion and willingness to "believe."
Now, I've got some sketching to do...

Cheers - Jim
 
phantomjock said:
SBG -

Thanks for the links - looks like you're right on the brake cooling NACA duct in the roof - not a wing section.
Nice optical illusion and willingness to "believe."
Now, I've got some sketching to do...

Cheers - Jim
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I think the optical illusion is the start of something great. I've been considering all I've been talking about with an angled radiator and then - after seeing the ductwork on that car, thought, well why don't I put vanes on the back side of the radiator to straighten the airflow? I could, literally, hide increased downforce there by ducting back up to the hood vent (or simply aim the air back up towards the vent). Sure, it would slow down flow but the benefit of reducing the lift induced by the angled radiator might make it all worth it.

There's be a lot more noise about how the Ultimate Street Car challenges are far more race car then actual, street car. My guess is in the near future they'll start limiting aero on even the older cars - thus the hidden stuff may keep me both competitive and unlikely to need an entire new car when the rules hit.
 
I think the optical illusion is the start of something great. I've been considering all I've been talking about with an angled radiator and then - after seeing the ductwork on that car, thought, well why don't I put vanes on the back side of the radiator to straighten the airflow? I could, literally, hide increased downforce there by ducting back up to the hood vent (or simply aim the air back up towards the vent). Sure, it would slow down flow but the benefit of reducing the lift induced by the angled radiator might make it all worth it.
Click to expand...

Add a bit of Chaparral action to the idea... put 2 3000 cfm fans on the backside of your radiator to help straighten the flow. Then you have a "plausible" reason for the vanes/ductwork too. if the radiator is in a bottom sucker position -- all the better I'd think. Can't say how much to gain - but it is in the right direction.

Cheers - Jim
 
phantomjock said:
Add a bit of Chaparral action to the idea... put 2 3000 cfm fans on the backside of your radiator to help straighten the flow. Then you have a "plausible" reason for the vanes/ductwork too. if the radiator is in a bottom sucker position -- all the better I'd think. Can't say how much to gain - but it is in the right direction.

Cheers - Jim
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darn you.... lol... I spent part of this afternoon chuckling about the notion, then seriously considering it....
 
I have little confidence that this will survive in any recognizable form but I want the inlets and most of the shape - but it's too narrow for my plans so fiberglass fab is coming soon
BJ1SLcXh.jpg
first part of my wing arrived
dUqIKYzh.jpg
and the regulator
UVxWPfqh.jpg
 
Ok - Ok - I'll make a drawing. I was disappointed that the C3 that looked like a rear deck solution - wasn't. So today, while going through some files, found this cool rear end treatment, that I need to share.
AARON SBG2.jpg
I looked on Tineye and couldn't find it, so you've got to put up with my scan of a ratty piece of paper. NOTE - the buttress on this rear wing seems to have been lengthened all the way aft to the wing.

Finding that motivated me to fire up the CAD, and make a quick rendition of a Winged-Buttress design for C-3 coupes. Not engineering quality, but if I had some CFD skills, I would run some stream lines. But sometimes intutition is as good as measurement. Who knows?

AARON SBG1.jpg

Thoughts?

Cheers - Jim
 
On SUVs, those work fantastic at keeping the rear window dry.... but wouldn't that create lift

an interesting article on buttresses
driventowrite.com

Theme : Aerodynamics – Buttresses, A User Guide

Driven To Write attempts to decipher an aerodynamic staple but finds the going surprisingly turbulent. In architectural terms, a buttress is defined as a structural member built against or projecti…
driventowrite.com driventowrite.com

my thought is this - rather then add - take advantage of the shape and make the underside flat. Because the air is going faster under then over, it would create high pressure on airspace above the rear deck - thus smoothing airflow (rather then allowing it to tumble the moment it hits the low-pressure immediately behind the targa)
 
All good thoughts - I wanted to articulate the concept of a "roof" airfoil that the earlier picture looked like.
I "cheated" and just copied the arch of the buttress and roof line with no attention to the shape of the airfoil. Much work could be done here. (it was just a 10 minute effort by a low skilled CAD-artist)
And yes - it would need some shaping - or some clever use of a gurney, or vortex generators. Filling that area (on the rear deck) with airflow could "shape" the external flow and reduce drag - with less weight than a "fastback." Anything to reduce the drag from that area should be a good maneuver.

BTW the rear airfoil on the red "vette looks a lot like the F40 Fiero mods, don't ya' think?

Cheers - Jim
 
phantomjock said:
All good thoughts - I wanted to articulate the concept of a "roof" airfoil that the earlier picture looked like.
I "cheated" and just copied the arch of the buttress and roof line with no attention to the shape of the airfoil. Much work could be done here. (it was just a 10 minute effort by a low skilled CAD-artist)
And yes - it would need some shaping - or some clever use of a gurney, or vortex generators. Filling that area (on the rear deck) with airflow could "shape" the external flow and reduce drag - with less weight than a "fastback." Anything to reduce the drag from that area should be a good maneuver.

BTW the rear airfoil on the red "vette looks a lot like the F40 Fiero mods, don't ya' think?

Cheers - Jim
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it would be a bit or a paradox if we found that the hardtop cars could have better aero then the convertibles

it does look fiero-ish, but is that a good thing? my first thought, though was 1st gen NSX
 
No, you do not have to remove the glass or the outside weather strip....
wXaDeSbh.jpg
the parts
vn7MXkph.jpg
getting close the bloodletting being done - but notice that the bottom hole isn't aligned - Chinesium strikes again. Nice touch that all the bolts are 10mm socket head
pqqYnKMh.jpg
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
No, you do not have to remove the glass or the outside weather strip....
View attachment 53267
the parts
View attachment 53268
getting close the bloodletting being done - but notice that the bottom hole isn't aligned - Chinesium strikes again. Nice touch that all the bolts are 10mm socket head
View attachment 53269
Click to expand...

Interesting, this job is in my future. You don't need to remove the window but is there hardware (like rollers) that need to be replaced on the glass?
 
BBShark said:
Interesting, this job is in my future. You don't need to remove the window but is there hardware (like rollers) that need to be replaced on the glass?
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usually the problem is worn pivot points, not worn rollers (or worn teeth on the regulator - my problem). That said, you can buy an entire, wheel kit from most of the major suppliers.
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
interesting aero ideas on this...
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Nice video!

Thunder Racing... they are a German Group. This is a scratch-built 1/48th model of their previous car.
Somewhere I have a pic of them in the pits, but they are following the path they started.
81d01a0f56cf249bbfd36663ed4f646f.jpg

Some definite similarities.

Cheers - Jim
 
Another pic of the blue (Previous) edition. Note the scoops on the flying buttresses. Not on the Gold. Wonder if they dropped them as they were not efficient - or some classification rules?
Maybe I'll reach out to them via YT. Meanwhile, the Blue at Hockenheim:
hockenheim2001_4_g.jpg

They've made some slick improvements in the airdam/splitter on the Gold, and have added some louvers on front fenders not seen in the blue pics. Refined radiator too.


Cheers - Jim
 
At some point, I'll probably have to get a hood like theirs - we'll see after next Sunday, first Autox of the season, probably shouldn't do it but I need seat time and we don't have much in the way of weather windows until June.
 
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